Some good recommendations here…would also add that a 5 string is incredibly useful in shifting keys as you can anchor your position across two octaves.
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Switching to another key; what is the best technique?
- Thread starter CaribooBass
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transposing is a skill. transposing on-the-fly is the same skill, supercharged! practice, practice, practice...like any other skill.
First thing I did when learning bass is learn the scales up and down the fingerboard, starting with different hand positions. There are many scale types, but I mainly learned basic major and basic minor. Learn them in every key. Most of it is repetitive, but pay particular attention to the shape changes near the nut when using open strings, and higher up when you run out of strings. I concentrated up to the 12th fret, as that’s where most of the playing is done.
With that, I think in terms of the Nashville numbers, or I would just call it intervals or relative pitch from the root (key). If not already, you should be able to hear what the intervals sound like. Like a major 4th, 5th, 3rd, 6th, minor ones too, all 12. Just like a key, each interval has its own feeling too and you’ll know it when you hear it.
Then within each interval, I use patterns, or runs. Some more common than others. Learn these in various hand positions too.
Basically it’s using key, then intervals, then patterns, to get you there. Rather than using music theory to know where to go.
With that, I think in terms of the Nashville numbers, or I would just call it intervals or relative pitch from the root (key). If not already, you should be able to hear what the intervals sound like. Like a major 4th, 5th, 3rd, 6th, minor ones too, all 12. Just like a key, each interval has its own feeling too and you’ll know it when you hear it.
Then within each interval, I use patterns, or runs. Some more common than others. Learn these in various hand positions too.
Basically it’s using key, then intervals, then patterns, to get you there. Rather than using music theory to know where to go.
I subbed on bass for a PW band for a while because they only had one available bass player. They kept charts in a shared dropbox. When the songlist came out for "next week's set", I'd print the charts, find an "arrangement-approximate" youtube version (which was seldom in the same key as the shared chart) and convert the chart to numbers while playing along to youtube. This turned out to be a good idea because the singer(s) (I soon found out), often wanted to sing in a different key than the chart. Numbers made it really easy to deal with, especially since many of the songs were unfamilliar to me.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,408
- 9,865
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
This is really about general music, not bass guitar technique.
Moved to General Instruction.
Moved to General Instruction.
- Apr 1, 2000
- 17,408
- 9,865
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Roscoe Guitars, DR Strings, Aguilar Amplification
My favorite way to annoy guitar players is to call for a tune in Eb.
Whether or not it’s technically correct, I do see where micguy is coming from.
IMO, theory is using pure music knowledge to know what exact note/octave to play at any time. Like finding your place on a map based purely on knowledge of latitude/longitude. Transposing can be done that way if it’s what works for you.
Where as Nashville numbers, or other shortcuts such as purely knowing the fingerboard extremely well, do not require deep musical knowledge, or theory IMO. It’s like finding your place on a map by knowing a landmark to start at, and knowing how to get there. You can transpose based on patterns alone.
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Back in the day, our church did a lot of Geron Davis songs, one verse followed by the chorus that modulated keys each turn around. Loads of fun, but I started out with that band playing guitar.
After a couple of months I ran into the keyboard it’s and she said, ‘I can’t believe you are still playing with us”. I asked her why. Keep in mind, she had been the principle keyboardist at that church for 20 years before I got there. She replied “because we’ve have a history of running off every guitar player that’s ever showed up”. I surmised that it was all the constant key changes and there were a boatload of them. So I developed a system that allowed me to survive.
In answer to your question, I did study music theory and can read standard notation and all that stuff. Learning nomenclature terms are certainly useful for communication. But what really was the most useful thing I got out of 2 years of study was the ear training needed for dictation. The art of hearing a note, then a second and being able to identify it’s space on a scale by mentally picturing it.
This allows me when without charts is instead of thinking is this a Ab going to an Eb I think it of it as the tonic going to the 5th position of the scale. So you find the root let’s say on the E string the 4th is one string up on the same fret, 5th is always one string up 2 frets up so on and so forth. OK, the song modulated to the Key of A. You find the root,(one fret up) means the the fifth is ?? It’s always one string up, two frets up. So on and so forth.
Find the relative minor (6th note of a major scale) and you got 80% of all music anywhere on the neck. Add in the accidentals and modes and you are well over 95%.
A couple of caveats. One, you’re going to need relative pitch, being able to identify the difference in pitch is critical. The second is that you understand and remember when chord changes occur. Finally, required complex unison passages are tricky and you will have to work those out note by note. There are no shortcuts.
Hope this helps and best wishes. And thanks for your ministry.
Dude....when you have the number system down then you will find that the sky is the limit. You will KNOW you can play the tune you are learning in ANY key and you will have no fear.
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Some apps have a transpose function. You can change your chart to any key on the fly.
Yeah, numbers system. Though I came to it through learning jazz guitar, thinking of a tune's chords in terms of their position relative to the "1" (tonic) chord. It's actually pretty simple, compared to how it sounds when described.
In the tonic key of C, the 5 chord is a G (dominant), which the ear wants to hear resolve back to C. Move the song to the key of A, then the 5 is E. And so on.
4 chord in tonic C is F. 6 chord is A minor (the relative minor).
Just knowing those 4 positions for common key signatures covers a whole ton of songs. If you want, you could just start with that, see how that feels, fill in the rest as time goes by.
It does help to play a chordal instrument, to visualize this simply. But it's not essential.
In the tonic key of C, the 5 chord is a G (dominant), which the ear wants to hear resolve back to C. Move the song to the key of A, then the 5 is E. And so on.
4 chord in tonic C is F. 6 chord is A minor (the relative minor).
Just knowing those 4 positions for common key signatures covers a whole ton of songs. If you want, you could just start with that, see how that feels, fill in the rest as time goes by.
It does help to play a chordal instrument, to visualize this simply. But it's not essential.
Theory can be used to explain how to transpose, but knowing all the theory in the world won’t help you do it in real time. Only practice - developing ears and muscle memory will get you there. As Billy Sheehan says, “if you’re thinking’, you’re stinking’.
If you’re consciously aware of the note or the number you’re playing, or the next note, or thinking next note is up a fourth”, you’re not in a flow state, which means you aren’t “there” yet. Keep practicing.
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Sounds to me that you are playing bass from your head/taking a clinical approach to bass playing, which is hindering your inner visualization skills...If a song is a I-IV-V in A and they want to transpose to G, look at your fretboard, see the I-IV-V in A and move everything down two frets
Yeah, but I think you get to the "unconscious" state by repeatedly playing with the "theory" (I almost hate to call it theory because it's basically pretty straightforward and practical). So any way you slice it, practice makes perfect.
If the music is written out, you simply read it down.
If the music is written out, but a modulation will happen in a certain place, it's discussed in advance and you notate the page. You may write in a chord or too that are used during the modulation, and then if you can, you transpose. If it's a direct modulation, you may write a note with an up or down arrow and the interval of the modulation. Then you simply start transposing at the right place in the music.
If you are in a jam and whoever is leading decides to modulate, you use your ear unless you think in some sort of numbering system like Nashville numbers. If you use numbers, you simply start playing the form in the new key.
If you want to understand the mechanics of modulation then you need to study theory. There are lot's of different approaches. I have not read through it, but this page looks like it would be informative: The Types of Modulation | BEYOND MUSIC THEORY
he modulation approach you would use depends on where you are in the music, where you want it to go, and the type of effect you want to create. Ideally you would intimately now and understand how to use each modulation different approach. When you really understand music at this level, writing music is sort of like writing out your words. You have an idea and simply write it down.
This level of knowledge and performance is required of a skilled composer/arranger. It can be beneficial as a bassist, but is not strictly necessary.
If the music is written out, but a modulation will happen in a certain place, it's discussed in advance and you notate the page. You may write in a chord or too that are used during the modulation, and then if you can, you transpose. If it's a direct modulation, you may write a note with an up or down arrow and the interval of the modulation. Then you simply start transposing at the right place in the music.
If you are in a jam and whoever is leading decides to modulate, you use your ear unless you think in some sort of numbering system like Nashville numbers. If you use numbers, you simply start playing the form in the new key.
If you want to understand the mechanics of modulation then you need to study theory. There are lot's of different approaches. I have not read through it, but this page looks like it would be informative: The Types of Modulation | BEYOND MUSIC THEORY
he modulation approach you would use depends on where you are in the music, where you want it to go, and the type of effect you want to create. Ideally you would intimately now and understand how to use each modulation different approach. When you really understand music at this level, writing music is sort of like writing out your words. You have an idea and simply write it down.
This level of knowledge and performance is required of a skilled composer/arranger. It can be beneficial as a bassist, but is not strictly necessary.
I disagree with this.
When I listen to stuff Ive recorded over the years, some of my best and more unique playing was on songs that were just thrown at me cold from another player and I was forced to really focus and think about it, including some songs I knew well that I was suddenly trying to play in a different key.
That “thinking and stinking” line might be true for some people but it certainly isn’t true for everyone.
I can think, “I-IV-ii-V” (or any other progression for that matter) without limiting my ability to improvise and play fluidly and in time over the chords.
I just play the same thing I was going to play, but starting at a different place on the fretboard. Sometimes you have to make a compromise (like jumping up an octave when there are no lower notes available) but otherwise it's pretty straightforward.
I'm no music theorist but it works for me.
I'm no music theorist but it works for me.
