SWR Silverado Special 212 Combo Replacement Speakers

[kosmicwizard]

Avatar speakers often has good deals on speakers and drivers. Idk if they have high enough wattage Fanes for your application, but (F75 8ohm) might work. Please listen for the voice coils overheating, if you choose these. Fanes are fantastic guitar speakers. Cheers.

 

[arbiterusa]

OK. First things first. Call Eminence. They are usually super-helpful with this sort of thing.

1. If you just go throwing speakers in there, it will sound like garbage. Bass cabs are not guitar cabs, you can't roll speakers. That cab was designed around a certain speaker and you need to use either the speaker it was designed for or something REALLY close spec-wise. Otherwise, you will end up with crap tone or blown speakers or both. Wasnex gave you some good advice on the previous page.

2. Yes, there are better speakers out there for tone or weight or whatever. Doesn't matter. They won't work with that cabinet.

3. Welcome to SWR. I've been playing their stuff for 30 years now and even though they've been out of business since 2013, I have no intention of switching cabs (I had to go to the GK MB500 for gigging amps as they sadly never made a serious SMPS/class D amp). And I still frequently run my old heads.

 

[D Rogue]

The speakers were most likely custom made for SWR. AFAIK, Eminence usually only supports such custom drivers through the OEM and since SWR is gone, you are probably out of luck. In other words getting replacement drivers or even an authentic recone kits may not be possible.

So the best option IMHO is to measure the dimensions of the cab and porting, so that a new driver type can be selected that will work well with the cab. Don't get too hung up on the 250W power rating of the original drivers. More power handling is better, but the most important thing is the drivers must be compatible with the cab. Also you need two matching drivers.

Thanks, Wasnex! That's kind of my plan right now. I had originally hoped that Eminence could look at the numbers on the speaker and tell me current production model they have that's similar, but they haven't responded to my inquiry. So, taking measurements of the cab, as you've suggested, will help me get close. Thanks again!

 

[D Rogue]

I'm confused, are you going to play a lollar loaded strat through it? If so get high wattage guitar speakers (like Eminence Texas Heat or Celestion G12H150 redbacks), but then NEVER allow anyone to play bass through them. The lower frequencies will destroy the speaker cones.

I have a ported SWR redhead and replaced the stock PAS drivers with Eminence Legend BP102, sounds great, and even moreso with an extention cabinet. If you are looking for bass drivers that would sound good in your combo I would look at the 12 inch version of these, BP122. It's weird that the BP102 is described as working in sealed or ported cabs, but the BP122 says sealed and hi-fi home audio applications. Hope my post was helpful. Cheers.

Thanks, Kos! I guess my Lollar Blonde Strat pickup comment probably just confused things. I am a guitar player, and mentioned the Blondes because of their scooped, woody, tones, and that I like that sound. This SWR Silverado Special will be used only for bass guitar, as I have several tube amps for playing guitars through. The BP122 was the first speaker I looked at, but now I'm thinking it's not as much of a close replacement as I thought. For instance the BP122 doesn't have the little screen/vent on the back of the magnet like the stock speakers do. Not sure what that does, but SWR picked a speaker with the vent, so I'm looking for one like the OEM speaker.

 

[D Rogue]

It would appear as if this project is in the research phase. I would add a re-cone shop to my discussion/thoughts during the research phase.

Thanks, Wesley! Yes, you are correct, I am in the research phase, trying to learn as much as I can about what speakers came in this amp. I would like the replacements to be as close to the originals as possible. A recone is definitely an option, and something I'm looking into, but just thought at ~$75.00-ish for a recone I can buy a new speaker instead. However, just buying any 12" speaker would probably be a mistake, hence the research on what I'm replacing (or reconing).

 

[D Rogue]

Avatar speakers often has good deals on speakers and drivers. Idk if they have high enough wattage Fanes for your application, but (F75 8ohm) might work. Please listen for the voice coils overheating, if you choose these. Fanes are fantastic guitar speakers. Cheers.

I have (2) Avatar 212 cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's, which I absolutely love! These are for electric guitar amps, of course. They make great cabs for a great price!

This all started as a quest to understand what speaker SWR used, and what is the closest retail speaker they make that is like what they made for SWR. Considering that my great deal on that Silverado Special was such a great deal because the speakers were damaged has me reluctant at throwing more money at it. However, dropping a couple hundred into it by buying new speakers (or having the existing ones reconed) still only brings the overall money spent to around $420.00, which I'm okay with. Any more and I'm possibly just throwing good money at bad. I just wanted a bass amp for my garage jam room, which already has a bunch of guitar amps, drum kit, and a PA. We also had our old bassist flying in from AZ to CA to record at our fishing cabin up at Eagle Lake, so I wanted something he could play through, instead of going straight into the PA, and then line out from the amp to the recorder. Playing at the loud volume is when the blown speaker reared its head. Luckily, the line out to the recorder was unaffected.

 

[D Rogue]

OK. First things first. Call Eminence. They are usually super-helpful with this sort of thing.

1. If you just go throwing speakers in there, it will sound like garbage. Bass cabs are not guitar cabs, you can't roll speakers. That cab was designed around a certain speaker and you need to use either the speaker it was designed for or something REALLY close spec-wise. Otherwise, you will end up with crap tone or blown speakers or both. Wasnex gave you some good advice on the previous page.

2. Yes, there are better speakers out there for tone or weight or whatever. Doesn't matter. They won't work with that cabinet.

3. Welcome to SWR. I've been playing their stuff for 30 years now and even though they've been out of business since 2013, I have no intention of switching cabs (I had to go to the GK MB500 for gigging amps as they sadly never made a serious SMPS/class D amp). And I still frequently run my old heads.

Thanks, Arbiter! I agree with everything you wrote! I am first trying to determine the specs of the original speakers, so I can find something close. That, or I will get the original ones reconed. I have contacted Eminence via email, sending them a pic of the magnet sticker, but haven't heard back. While I have considered a recone, I may need to look at this option a little more closely. Thanks again for the reply and your suggestion!

 

[agedhorse]

I do not recall that speaker using a 3” voice coil. I can’t find the service data on that combo but I’m about 85% sure it was a 2.5” VC based on the (pre) Delta platform. There were also versions that used the Delta Pro motor on the stamped Delta baskets and vis versa, if you can measure the diameter of the back plate and ceramic magnet, I can look it up. I might have a good used pair sitting on the shelf. You can PM me if you like.

There is also an possiblity that it’s an alternate OEM version that uses a 2” VC, I may have some of those as well. I will look through my service docs some more.

 

[Doug Parent]

An authorized Eminence speaker recon will be able to use the information on the stamp in order to restore those speakers to the original factory spec. Once those are reconed to factory specs you essentially have a new speaker that was designed for that cabinet.

 

[agedhorse]

From the info I found, that's either a 40 or 56 oz magnet and 2" or 2.5"VC. SWR didn't use 3" VCs on any 10" or 12" speaker that is in my database.

I only have one of what I think is very close to the original driver, but possibly a later version with the M-roll surround.

There are plenty of good options that are not that heavy and don't cost an arm and a leg.

It would probably cost as much or more to recone than replace.

 

[BogeyBass]

I have (2) Avatar 212 cabs loaded with Celestion Vintage 30's, which I absolutely love! These are for electric guitar amps, of course. They make great cabs for a great price!

This all started as a quest to understand what speaker SWR used, and what is the closest retail speaker they make that is like what they made for SWR. Considering that my great deal on that Silverado Special was such a great deal because the speakers were damaged has me reluctant at throwing more money at it. However, dropping a couple hundred into it by buying new speakers (or having the existing ones reconed) still only brings the overall money spent to around $420.00, which I'm okay with. Any more and I'm possibly just throwing good money at bad. I just wanted a bass amp for my garage jam room, which already has a bunch of guitar amps, drum kit, and a PA. We also had our old bassist flying in from AZ to CA to record at our fishing cabin up at Eagle Lake, so I wanted something he could play through, instead of going straight into the PA, and then line out from the amp to the recorder. Playing at the loud volume is when the blown speaker reared its head. Luckily, the line out to the recorder was unaffected.

Originally SWR was using PAS speakers.
Far as I can tell they mainly used Eminence Speaker for 12" models.

These are what Eminence considers standard series stamped steel drivers, so there is no recone kits.
Anyone from GK to Ampeg to SWR have used stamp steel Eminence speakers.
Usually 2.5" or 3" voice coils.

To remain at high efficiency or make a bass worthy speaker with enough cone travel before distortion.
Many of the older GK special designs used larger 59 or 80 ounce magnets to use a 4 to 5mm available cone travel.

Otherwise for cost reason many stuck to the Beta or earlier Gamma series.
Gamma was defalt driver for many companies and used a larger 59 ounce magnet to put the driver into 4mm territory

Beta was a better cost option using lighter magnets, but only was a 3mm driver.

Eventually Eminence did a special design 12" for bass with increased 4mm of travel similar to the Gamma
but the beta uses a more cost efficient 38 ounce magnet opposed to the earlier discontinued Gamma with 59 ounce

The " special design" Beta is available now to the public was released as the Beta 12A2
4mm of travel with 38 ounce magnet.
As mentioned more heavy duty special designs like a paragon or the SWR drivers
tend to still use larger voice coils and still utilize 59 or 80 ounce magnets.

Either way a Beta12A2 is still a good option for good performance and cost.
BETA-12A-2 - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
Not much different than current Ampeg AV drivers and not much different than
412HE drivers and working mans 4x12 that were both way ahead of their time
but not accepted 30 years ago. But now bassist seem to accept a 12" for bass

Far as the cast frame pro series Kappa Pro you were looking at.
cast frame drivers are superior basket. but have higher cost.
As you can see majority of " special design" 12" that use 3" coils
still stick with the large coil, and 59 or 80 ounce magnet like the kappa pro, but use a stamp steel metal work
to reduce cost. Or as mentioned also move to a Beta which also reduces magnet weight cost.

far as " measuring" the cabinet, it will be the same old 1.4 to 2 cubic feet per driver that any live sound 12" will use.
and all the betas, kappas, lites etc etc all have similar Fs and mechanical abilities
and all will drop right in and be fine to the combos volume/tuning. people want to make mystical magical speaker boxes
that no other driver will work in. but in reality all those drivers do fine in 1.4 to 3.4 cubic feet and just get tuned to the same old 45 to 50hz
blah blah blah

tone of the beta and kappas pretty much exactly the same. some just survive thermally better and dont fart out as quick, otherwise tone is basically the same

 

[D Rogue]

I do not recall that speaker using a 3” voice coil. I can’t find the service data on that combo but I’m about 85% sure it was a 2.5” VC based on the (pre) Delta platform. There were also versions that used the Delta Pro motor on the stamped Delta baskets and vis versa, if you can measure the diameter of the back plate and ceramic magnet, I can look it up. I might have a good used pair sitting on the shelf. You can PM me if you like.

There is also an possibility that it’s an alternate OEM version that uses a 2” VC, I may have some of those as well. I will look through my service docs some more.

I may have misinterpreted Bogey's post and mention of a 3" voice coil. I know nothing about these speakers, other than they were manufactured by Eminence, and that they are 8 ohm. a 2.5" voice coil broadens the options, but now I am looking into the recone a little more seriously. I need to brush up on my speaker knowledge so I can take the proper measurements, but may hit you up about the speakers you have. Thanks!

 

[BogeyBass]

From the info I found, that's either a 40 or 56 oz magnet and 2" or 2.5"VC. SWR didn't use 3" VCs on any 10" or 12" speaker that is in my database.

I only have one of what I think is very close to the original driver, but possibly a later version with the M-roll surround.

There are plenty of good options that are not that heavy and don't cost an arm and a leg.

It would probably cost as much or more to recone than replace.

Most likely 2.5 inch
older gamma or paragons used 59 ounce
some moved to the 4mm Beta II with 38 ounce
usually a smaller 2" voicecoil for lighter 38 ounce magnets.

I had Eminence data for SWR special design speakers.
Far as I remember it was a 2" coil and 38 ounce magnet.
4mm xmax....Beta12A2

for a combo they could have used a bigger coil 2.5"
and a 56/59 ounce magnet.

all special design, but were looking for typical off the shelf
of course.

 

[D Rogue]

An authorized Eminence speaker recon will be able to use the information on the stamp in order to restore those speakers to the original factory spec. Once those are reconed to factory specs you essentially have a new speaker that was designed for that cabinet.

Your post makes too much sense for a knucklehead like me (damn guitar players!), but I think I need to investigate more on a recone.

 

[BogeyBass]

I may have misinterpreted Bogey's post and mention of a 3" voice coil. I know nothing about these speakers, other than they were manufactured by Eminence, and that they are 8 ohm. a 2.5" voice coil broadens the options, but now I am looking into the recone a little more seriously. I need to brush up on my speaker knowledge so I can take the proper measurements, but may hit you up about the speakers you have. Thanks!

You cant recone standard series Eminence stamp steels.
They only have recone kits for cast frame pro models.

 

[D Rogue]

From the info I found, that's either a 40 or 56 oz magnet and 2" or 2.5"VC. SWR didn't use 3" VCs on any 10" or 12" speaker that is in my database.

I only have one of what I think is very close to the original driver, but possibly a later version with the M-roll surround.

There are plenty of good options that are not that heavy and don't cost an arm and a leg.

It would probably cost as much or more to recone than replace.

Thanks Horse! You assessment of cost for recone versus new is why I originally was looking for new. I do like the idea of a recone making it like a new version of what it was, though. If it was as simple as finding out the specs of the existing speaker, and finding a retail version close to identical, which I would think they make, that's what my original intent or hope was.

 

[D Rogue]

Originally SWR was using PAS speakers.
Far as I can tell they mainly used Eminence Speaker for 12" models.

These are what Eminence considers standard series stamped steel drivers, so there is no recone kits.
Anyone from GK to Ampeg to SWR have used stamp steel Eminence speakers.
Usually 2.5" or 3" voice coils.

To remain at high efficiency or make a bass worthy speaker with enough cone travel before distortion.
Many of the older GK special designs used larger 59 or 80 ounce magnets to use a 4 to 5mm available cone travel.

Otherwise for cost reason many stuck to the Beta or earlier Gamma series.
Gamma was defalt driver for many companies and used a larger 59 ounce magnet to put the driver into 4mm territory

Beta was a better cost option using lighter magnets, but only was a 3mm driver.

Eventually Eminence did a special design 12" for bass with increased 4mm of travel similar to the Gamma
but the beta uses a more cost efficient 38 ounce magnet opposed to the earlier discontinued Gamma with 59 ounce

The " special design" Beta is available now to the public was released as the Beta 12A2
4mm of travel with 38 ounce magnet.
As mentioned more heavy duty special designs like a paragon or the SWR drivers
tend to still use larger voice coils and still utilize 59 or 80 ounce magnets.

Either way a Beta12A2 is still a good option for good performance and cost.
BETA-12A-2 - Loudspeakers | Eminence Speaker
Not much different than current Ampeg AV drivers and not much different than
412HE drivers and working mans 4x12 that were both way ahead of their time
but not accepted 30 years ago. But now bassist seem to accept a 12" for bass

Far as the cast frame pro series Kappa Pro you were looking at.
cast frame drivers are superior basket. but have higher cost.
As you can see majority of " special design" 12" that use 3" coils
still stick with the large coil, and 59 or 80 ounce magnet like the kappa pro, but use a stamp steel metal work
to reduce cost. Or as mentioned also move to a Beta which also reduces magnet weight cost.

far as " measuring" the cabinet, it will be the same old 1.4 to 2 cubic feet per driver that any live sound 12" will use.
and all the betas, kappas, lites etc etc all have similar Fs and mechanical abilities
and all will drop right in and be fine to the combos volume/tuning. people want to make mystical magical speaker boxes
that no other driver will work in. but in reality all those drivers do fine in 1.4 to 3.4 cubic feet and just get tuned to the same old 45 to 50hz
blah blah blah

tone of the beta and kappas pretty much exactly the same. some just survive thermally better and dont fart out as quick, otherwise tone is basically the same

That's a lot of info to chew on! Your knowledge and willing to share it is much appreciated. Man, you bass guys are sure a lot nicer and more helpful than those on many of the guitar forums I've visited. I appreciate you guys helping this newb out! Cheers!

 

[D Rogue]

You cant recone standard series Eminence stamp steels.
They only have recone kits for cast frame pro models.

Well, looks like that rules out a recone then. I wish it was as simple as "yeah man, I know those speakers. This speaker (insert speaker model here) will get you pretty much there, and be done with it." However, I understand why that may not be wise council. Whether 2", 2.5" or 3" voice coil doesn't mean much to me as much as getting a speaker with the same size (whatever that is) coil. I want to try to keep this thing as close to the designed intent as possible. You guys are great, and you guidance is appreciated!

 

[elkkid2]

Hello, first post here! I have searched and searched and cannot find anything on what speakers came in an SWR Silverado Special 212 combo amp. I bought one of these used recently for a screaming deal, which will now just be an okay price after I replace the speakers. It looks like one or both of the 12" speakers had a tear in the cone, and had a bad repair job done, so, I'd like to replace them.

My friend The Google didn't have much info, and hours of searching here I'd find little tidbits, but nothing specific. Based on the sticker on the magnet...

View attachment 3976402

... these speakers appear to be made by Eminence in 1999. The cab is ported, so I know that it was designed with a particular speaker in mind. I emailed Eminence with a pic of the sticker, to see if they had a recommendation for a replacement, but haven't heard back yet. I was looking at the Eminence Legend BP122, but that speaker may be more suited for a sealed cab. I like the Eminence Neodymium Deltalite II 2512, but don't really want to spend $150.00 per speaker (but will if enough people say that's the speaker I need).

What I'm looking for is a pair of 12", 8 ohm, 250 watt, speakers, hopefully close to 99 or 100 dB sensitivity. Again, being slightly amazed that a Google search (or here on TB) of "SWR Silverado Special Replacement Speakers" didn't come up with much of anything I thought I would make my first post here. I am a guitar player, but bought this amp for home jamming and recording, so not looking for suggestions on another amp, or comments about buying a piece of junk, but am hoping someone in the know may have a good suggestion for a replacement speaker. So, what do you think? Thanks in advance, and cheers!

 

[elkkid2]

SWR speakers...meh, the cones roll...I always do a mondter upgrage when reconing them! I'm still using the SWR Super redhead I had customized at Neil's Speaker repair in Colma, CA. He used the same magnet and frame, but totally gave it the stiffer cone, better spider, and the surrounds to give it a MUCH better bass response and excursion. Go for that!