• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

SWR Silverado Special 212 Combo Replacement Speakers

When I was testing the existing speakers, by having the amp on and me slightly pushing in on the speaker cones, it wasn't making any noise, as I read it should if it was blown. I can clearly see where there is a tear along the edge of the cone (marked between the red lines)...
upload_2020-9-14_12-42-57.png

Maybe I should try some rubber cement and tissue paper and see if I can fix it. It looks like it had some kind of glue gooped on there for a crappy repair in the past.
 
The LFA is about the opposite of the original speaker, the mid character is almost the polar opposite.
Back to your comment about the mid character being the opposite, is that a bad thing, if you don't really like over pronounced mids? Granted, I understand it goes back to the speaker was chosen for the specific cabinet, so maybe this amp doesn't do the lower, smoother thump, that I would prefer in a bass amp. Maybe the LFA being lower mid would be better for me... or, maybe it would totally jack up the sound.

I see you're with Mesa. Maybe I should throw the 212s from Lonestar Classic in the Silverado Special. Lol!
 
Hmmm, looks like I need to study up some more then. I was looking more at the fs and Xmax. Maybe I should phrase it like this: If you had an SWR Silverado Special from the late '90s (looks like 1997), and had a blown speaker, what would you replace the 2 speakers with?
Fs and Xmax have virtually nothing to do with the voicing of the speaker. They in small part have to do with the <200Hz performance but this is only in conjunction with the design of the enclosure itself.

The original driver is much closer to either the Beta 12A-2 or the Delta 12A in terms of the mid voicing and in fact most of the LF parameters. Which one will work better in that box is a function of how the box tuning works with each driver. The LF is (quite a bit) darker and has lower sensitivity overall. The original SWR drivers were very much focused on mid voicing.
 
When I was testing the existing speakers, by having the amp on and me slightly pushing in on the speaker cones, it wasn't making any noise, as I read it should if it was blown. I can clearly see where there is a tear along the edge of the cone (marked between the red lines)...
View attachment 3983385
Maybe I should try some rubber cement and tissue paper and see if I can fix it. It looks like it had some kind of glue gooped on there for a crappy repair in the past.

Rubber cement is the wrong type of adhesive. Recone shops use a PVA based (rubberized latex) adhesive and will make that repair carefully from the rear of the speaker with just a thin coat of PVA from the front.

More or less mids?

The LF has much less of the mids and high mids compared with the non-LF versions.
 
Fs and Xmax have virtually nothing to do with the voicing of the speaker. They in small part have to do with the <200Hz performance but this is only in conjunction with the design of the enclosure itself.

The original driver is much closer to either the Beta 12A-2 or the Delta 12A in terms of the mid voicing and in fact most of the LF parameters. Which one will work better in that box is a function of how the box tuning works with each driver. The LF is (quite a bit) darker and has lower sensitivity overall. The original SWR drivers were very much focused on mid voicing.
Of the Beta 12A-2 and the Delta 12A, would you edge towards the Delta because of the higher power handling ability (400 w on the Delta versus the 250 w of the Beta), and 2.5" voice coil of the Delta over the 2" coil on the Beta? I believe that you had previously mentioned that the 2" versus 2.5" voice coil thing isn't that big of a deal, but since the original is 2.5" it makes sense.

So the Delta 12A it is... or is it? Lol!
 
Rubber cement is the wrong type of adhesive. Recone shops use a PVA based (rubberized latex) adhesive and will make that repair carefully from the rear of the speaker with just a thin coat of PVA from the front.



The LF has much less of the mids and high mids compared with the non-LF versions.
Thank you! I thought I saw that someone used rubber cement in a quick search. If I do attempt to fix the speaker I'll definitely look up the proper way to do it. That, or take it to a speaker guy for a real repair.
 
Of the Beta 12A-2 and the Delta 12A, would you edge towards the Delta because of the higher power handling ability (400 w on the Delta versus the 250 w of the Beta), and 2.5" voice coil of the Delta over the 2" coil on the Beta? I believe that you had previously mentioned that the 2" versus 2.5" voice coil thing isn't that big of a deal, but since the original is 2.5" it makes sense.

So the Delta 12A it is... or is it? Lol!
Either might be better, I haven't run the numbers to verify the LF performance. The size of the VC is just the size, it doesn't have to be any larger than large enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D Rogue
Perhaps this would be easier. See if one of the lugs is equivalent to ground for the amp. If yes, connect the negative woofer terminals to that lug.

As an example, I just plugged in a guitar chord into the input of my GK 700RB. I also plug a 1/4" speaker chord into the woofer amp output. Note the amp was turned off. Next I measured continuity from the sleeve of each jack. Both are ground, so my meter beeped.
Not sure if I came to any conclusion, but I plugged a guitar cable into the amp's input jack, and with one meter lead on the sleeve of the cable and the other lead on the bottom lug (black wire) I have ~.4 ohm, and sleeve to top lug (red wire) is ~3.6 ohm. Then I plugged a speaker cable into the ext speaker output, and sleeve to sleeve on the two cables I'm getting ~.4 ohm. If I switch the red and black wires on the 2 lugs I am getting the same reading. Either I have no idea what I'm doing, which is highly likely, or this isn't telling me anything I know how to interpret. I played through the bass amp with the wires both ways and can't notice any difference in sound, nor can I tell if the speaker cone is moving out (correct polarity) or moving in with either setting. Therefore, I think I will go with the black wire on bottom and the red wire on the top, since the bottom lug has a black wire soldered to it, while the top lug has a brownish color wire soldered to it. This way at least black is on black... if there's any sound logic behind that.

Again, I have no idea what my little test is telling me, but since I can't tell in difference in sound or speaker cone movement direction I'm going black/black (bottom lug) and red/brown on upper lug. What do you think? I'm clearly doing something wrong, or have no idea what I'm doing... which is true either way. At least the new horn/diaphragm works. New speakers come tomorrow, so I wanted to do my experimentation with the old speakers, so I get it all sorted out and don't damage the new speakers.
 
It's not telling you anything useful.
Yes, I agree. I guess a better question would be: If the sleeve of the cable plugged into the ext speaker jack is negative, and I touch the other meter lead on the lug with the black wire, which is also negative, should I get a higher or lower ohm reading, as both ways are showing continuity and resistance, just one more than the other (.4 ohm v 3.6 ohm)? My take is the terminal strip seems to be mounted to some type of crossover which is splitting the high and low frequencies. 2 lugs, for the low frequency, go directly to the 12" drivers, and 2 lugs go to the wires in the cab, which I thought (and maybe is) was a crossover, but think it's just a low frequency cutout that then feeds the horn.

I just played through the amp some more, reversed the red and black wires again, and both ways sounds the same to me, and it appears that the speaker cone moves outwards either way it's wired. That doesn't seem right, which is why I'm questioning what I'm doing to test this. If I knew what readings to expect going sleeve to ground (black wire), or tip to red I think I'd be able to make more sense of what I'm doing.
 
That can't be right, if you reverse the polarity the speaker must move in the opposite direction.
That is my understanding as well. Maybe I'll put the meter on each lug and compare with ground, to see if that tells me anything. I can take the red and black wires connected to the speakers and tell with certainty which is positive and which is negative, but determining the positive and negative on the terminal strip on the board inside the amp is what I can't figure out.
 
Well, that did nothing. So here is what I'm thinking... If I put my meter leads on each of the 2 lugs i get a reading of 3.5. So with that, if I put my meter on the sleeve of the speaker wire coming from the ext speaker jack, and then the other lead on the lug with the black wire I get a reading of .4, but then if I move the lead to the lug with the brown/red wires I get a similar reading as to when I put the leads on the two lugs. Therefore, my confused knowledge is telling me that the black/black wire lug is indeed the negative terminal... or not. Lol! I spoke with Fender, and they directed me to The Bass Place, whom bought the SWR info from Fender. They're closed today, so I'll call them tomorrow to see if anyone knows anything about this.