Synthetic Oil - Better?

[Josh Ryan]

I guess the common wisdom is follow the manufacturers recommended oil change interval suggested in your owner's manual. For my Xterra and my wife's Murano it's 3750. For some it's actually more and for some it's less. Sometimes I wait a little longer than 3750 though.

brad cook

Yes, speak to the mechanic. You can get away with a little more time I hear with synth. I believe Mike N posted some of the cons of synthetic a while ago, but I think it all comes down to application.

 

[Josh Ryan]

Synthetic oils are good, but can be more expensive. Have you tried an oil additive (teflon based) like slick 50. You add this to your engine oil every 50,000 miles. What it does is coat/bond the moving engine parts with teflon so they last longer. Anyway, if you change your engine oil (proper weight)and filter at the manufacturers regular schedule, your engine will last a long time. Also if you use your vehicle to tow, you may want to change the oil more frequently.

I went to Penzoil's managment training program (shudder) when I was in school, and I will never use an additive in my oil. they sawed a filter in half to show us how slick50 destroyed it's particle trapping ability. they also had a gummed up oil return to show off thanks to slick 50.

 

[Mike N]

I don't use synthetic oils in anything I own....not even my racecar. I can't justify the extra cost. I also go 5000 miles between oil and filter changes. My 1984 K10 has 371,000 miles on it (original engine, has never seen a drop of synthetic oil), and only uses 1 quart of oil between changes.

The most common myth with synthetic is that you can go longer between oil changes. The oil can take it , but the oil filter cannot. The filter will not clean the oil as it passes through it after about 3500 miles. You must change that filter every 3,000 miles. There is a new oil fiter by fram that is suppose to go 5,000 miles. I have not heard alot about them.

Unless you drive in incredibly dusty conditions with no air cleaner, any oil filter should be able to go 5000 miles with no problem. Many manufacturers recommend changing the filter every other oil change, which would be 6000 miles.

I am a GM fan, most vehicles are equipped with an oil use sensor, my truck tells me when it wants to be changed.

GM's "oil use sensor" is actually computed by time, temperature and engine load. It has nothing to do with the type or weight of oil used.

Have you tried an oil additive (teflon based) like slick 50. You add this to your engine oil every 50,000 miles. What it does is coat/bond the moving engine parts with teflon so they last longer.

Imo, oil additives (especially Slick 50 which is a solid) are nothing more than snake oil. I personally would never use any of them in my own engine. They all seem to be designed as an excuse not to perform regular maitenance to your car.

We've all heard the ad's before.........

"Restore lost compression"

"Fill scratches in the cylinder walls"

"Stop oil burning"

Yeah, sure.

As always though...Mike N has the last word on TB car threads.

And here it is.......

While I believe that synthetic oils have their place (modern jet aircraft, the high banks of Daytona), the average street car/truck or weekend warrior hot rod doesn't need it. Heck, we went 7.0's @ 190+mph in our T/S Corvette on a mix of 20w50 and SAE40 Napa conventional oil, and never scuffed a bearing. At the end of the year when we tore down the engine, the bearings looked like we just took them out of the box.

We did nip a few pistons from an over-agressive Nitrous tuneup, but that had nothing to do with the oil we ran.

With all that being said, switching to synthetics won't hurt anything (other than your wallet) but I wouldn' expect to see huge performance or economy gains from the switch.

While synthetic oils have come a long way, so have mineral based oils.

 

[Bassic83]

Speaking of mineral oils and synthetics, look up "Torco Oil" on the web- Torco is a racing oil that has been shown to offer a modest gain in horsepower and torque in several studies not done by Torco itself. Torco uses a dino base oil with MPZ, which in testing added to regular off-the-shelf oil improved torque and HP. It's not a "Slick Willie-50" additive, it appears to be only a friction reducer. Torco base oils are of a higher grade than your stock motor oils, and contain fewer additives and paraffins.

On one of the MPG boards I frequent, some of the posters have gotten good results from using Torco 0W20 and MPZ. Most important, they say, is regular maintenance- fresh plugs, new air filter, new EGR valve every 40k, then oil changes every 3k-5k miles. One guy saw his mileage go from 44mpg to 48mpg. Yeah, we're talking Metro/Swift cars, but it's almost a 10% gain. Torco for small cars is generally available from motorcycle shops, they do have a synthetic available which I may try, since I only have 71k on my Metro. I retired my Jeep about a month ago due to the fact that I only get 14.7 mpg no matter what I do...the Mighty, Mighty Metro gets 45, and it is a 4-banger, 1.3L. Since I drive 450 miles a week on average, the savings to me is $238.24 a month. If I can squeeze another 4 mpg out of it, it would net an additional $9.48 a month. These calculations are based on $2.89/gal fuel.

 

[Mike N]

While I've heard of Torco Oil, I've never used it. It is, however, rather popular on the drag racing scene (as is Royal Purple).

Before I used it in my car, I would make sure it has the additive packages necessary for street use (detergents, anti-foaming agents, etc....). Racing oils differ from street oils in that most serious racers (that would use an oil such as Torco) are the type that change the oil before every race, therefore the racing oils may not contain the additives they need to go 5000 miles between changes.

I can assure you the Castrol Syntec that John Force pours into his Nitro Funny Car is quite different than the Castrol Syntec that Napa sells.

 

[Philbiker]

Well, they didn't mention anything about that to me, I get my oil changed every 3000 like the rest of us... or is that peculiar?

The oil change industry loves your devotion to the long outdated 3000 mile myth. in 1972 all cars needed 3000 mile oil changes. Engines and oil technology have come a long way since then. Read your owner's manual for the oil change interval. The engineers who made your car know more about its' oil requirements than your local quick lube.

 

[Philbiker]

Synthetic oils are good, but can be more expensive. Have you tried an oil additive (teflon based) like slick 50. You add this to your engine oil every 50,000 miles. What it does is coat/bond the moving engine parts with teflon so they last longer. Anyway, if you change your engine oil (proper weight)and filter at the manufacturers regular schedule, your engine will last a long time. Also if you use your vehicle to tow, you may want to change the oil more frequently.

Oil additave like this have been exposed as useless snake oil many, many times. Don't waste your money, these things do no good at all whatsoever for your car and may in fact cause harm.

 

[Philbiker]

While synthetic oils have come a long way, so have mineral based oils.

Uber important quote. "Conventional" oils of today have advanced so far beyond the day when synthetic made a big difference. Some cars have very particular oil requirements, I wouldn't put conventional oil into my wife's supercharged Mercedes-Benz, but I'm fine with it in my Kawasaki sport touring bike and my Subaru Legacy wagon.

Always follow the recommendations in your owner's manual. The engineers who designed the car know more than your local mechanic (even if you trust them) or a quick-lube place.

 

[Eric Perry]

I switched to synthetic in my '00 Lexus RX300 with low 90's on the clock (bought it with low mileage.... Gig travels add up quick!)

Very shortly afterward, the rear main seal crapped out. I did a decent amount of research and I read in many articles that switching to synth on a high mileage engine may in fact cause seal issues.

Of course, the first generation RX had issues with the rear main seal to begin with, but the timing was just impeccable!

I personally will never switch to synth again. How many of you (if any) have had any true oil-related problems? I would guess none. Engines are no longer the weak links in modern cars.

Just my $.02

 

[Dan1099]

Yeah, my car has the oil change interval stated as 5,000 miles.

 

[westland]

I don't use synthetic oils in anything I own....not even my racecar. I can't justify the extra cost. I also go 5000 miles between oil and filter changes. My 1984 K10 has 371,000 miles on it (original engine, has never seen a drop of synthetic oil), and only uses 1 quart of oil between changes.
While synthetic oils have come a long way, so have mineral based oils.

+1

... and I have to say that if you are experienced in drag racing, then you probably do have the ultimate TB street cred when it comes to car products.

You don't need synthetics if you change oil every 5K

 

[kserg]

To what Mike N was saying I would like to add one more thing...

Well first… use what works… I personally don’t think change is a good thing for a car… Even a change in style of driving could be bad…

You have 101k right now which is decent mileage... if you make a switch now there is possibility that you will develop a leak somewhere because of a switch... I am not sure of direct impact of this but I’ve seen it happen... I don’t know if Mike N would agree with me or not... i actually want to know if there is any direct impact...
From what I understand it cleans up the engine and dirt that was left alone and clogged the leaks would not be there anymore... So if engine has any potential leaks they might be exposed by cleaner engine.

I personally do use synthetic oil but that’s because it costs me the same as regular and well car I am driving always had synthetic in it so why switch now when it has 205k miles on it... I like the way it drives


Cheers

 

[jnprather]

The oil change industry loves your devotion to the long outdated 3000 mile myth. in 1972 all cars needed 3000 mile oil changes. Engines and oil technology have come a long way since then. Read your owner's manual for the oil change interval. The engineers who made your car know more about its' oil requirements than your local quick lube.

And most of those engineers would probably double what they're allowed to put in the manual, but their lawyers won't allow it.

 

[Dan1099]

That, and it gives automakers a reasonable excuse to not honor their warranty. "What, you changed your oil at three thousand and eighty miles? Sorry, that voids the power train warranty!"

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Synthetic oil is a better oil . It is man made and does not break down as quick as conventional oil. For your application I would not use a synthetic oil it has a harsh detergent in it. When you use it in a vehicle that has not used it and have high mileage it can cause leakes. The oil will actually clean out the old seals and do more harm then good. This is actually why they recommend not using sythetic oil for the break in period on new cars. You would do better with a high mileage oil like Maxlife by Valvoline.

The most common myth with synthetic is that you can go longer between oil changes. The oil can take it , but the oil filter cannot. The filter will not clean the oil as it passes through it after about 3500 miles. You must change that filter every 3,000 miles. There is a new oil fiter by fram that is suppose to go 5,000 miles. I have not heard alot about them.

+1.
And I figure while I'm underneath changing the oil filter I may as well change the motor oil as well. IMO today's conventional motor oils offer more than adequate protection for your average car or light truck.

I have relatives who've worked in the oil field and refining industry for decades. They all agree that synthetic motor oils are wonderful, but they also tell me that conventional oils when changed according to your owner's manual's specs, offer all the protection your car's engine requires.

If you're extremely bored sometime, look at your favorite conventional motor oil's data sheet (found on their website) and compare it to another brand of conventional motor oil's data sheet. You'll find the numbers are all very, very close on all brands. From what I've learned, "Group 2" base stocks are regarded as the best for motor oil applications. All companies I've looked at use Group 2 base stocks. The only difference from one brand to another is their additive package, which is listed on their data sheet. Once you compare the different brand's additive packages, you'll find they're all very similar.

I used to swear by Valvoline or Castrol GTX conventional oils until I started researching the data sheets. I now use Chevron Supreme conventional, whose numbers are nearly identical to Valvoline. Chevron Supreme's numbers are identical to Havoline Conventional (ChevronTexaco, by the way) but it's quite a bit cheaper and I can buy it by the case at my local Costco Warehouse for a little over a dollar a quart.

Sorry to babble, but I find this pretty interesting!
-Art

 

[Mike N]

You have 101k right now which is decent mileage... if you make a switch now there is possibility that you will develop a leak somewhere because of a switch... I am not sure of direct impact of this but I’ve seen it happen... I don’t know if Mike N would agree with me or not... i actually want to know if there is any direct impact...

Other than impacting your wallet, probably not. At 101K, leaks are possible regardless of what oil you use.

From what I understand it cleans up the engine and dirt that was left alone and clogged the leaks would not be there anymore... So if engine has any potential leaks they might be exposed by cleaner engine.

Unless the synthetic oil is ultra high in detergent, it shouldn't clean out anything better or worse than the conventional oil did.

Not only that, if the engine was that dirty inside, it's been neglected and is a leak waiting to happen.

 

[embellisher]

Mike is the resident drag racer, so his input is much more expert than mine, or most of the rest of us.

But, I would like to relate my personal experience with switching a high mileage car to synthetic.

I had a Ford Escort GT, with the Mazda 1.8 16 valve engine. A surprisingly peppy little engine.

I drove the crap out of that car. At 110,000 miles, I decided to switch to Mobil 1. The car had never used oil up to this point.

By the second oil change, I was going through 3-4 quarts between oil changes.

After 4 oil changes and tons of money spent on Mobil 1, I went back to Valvoline.

This car had never used oil, or smoked.

Now, at 122K, it starts burning oil, and smoking like a chimney every time I took off from a stop, or accelerated. That lovely blue-grey oil smoke.

Got an estimate on a ring and seal replacement, and then took it to one of those $2000 push/pull/drag it in trade in sales.

 

[Mike N]

Mike is the resident drag racer, so his input is much more expert than mine, or most of the rest of us.

But, I would like to relate my personal experience with switching a high mileage car to synthetic.

I had a Ford Escort GT, with the Mazda 1.8 16 valve engine. A surprisingly peppy little engine.

I drove the crap out of that car. At 110,000 miles, I decided to switch to Mobil 1. The car had never used oil up to this point.

By the second oil change, I was going through 3-4 quarts between oil changes.

After 4 oil changes and tons of money spent on Mobil 1, I went back to Valvoline.

This car had never used oil, or smoked.

Now, at 122K, it starts burning oil, and smoking like a chimney every time I took off from a stop, or accelerated. That lovely blue-grey oil smoke.

Got an estimate on a ring and seal replacement, and then took it to one of those $2000 push/pull/drag it in trade in sales.

Wow Jeff, that sucks.

I picked up an old Blazer many years ago as a winterbeater that sucked down so much oil between changes, that I decided to just change the filter every 5,000 miles, since I was adding oil so often it was always clean.

Truck lasted me for 4 years like that before the body rotted off the frame.

And, of all the vehicles I've owned (somewhere in the 40's by now, currently have 12) it ranks as #2 on my "most missed" list.

 

[DEVILMAN]

Very interesting opinions/stories here but nothing "mystic"...

As a confirmed gear head/racer/wrench myself for many years & with over 20yrs in the heavy equipment/diesel maintenance field, I HAVE seen & STILL see synthetics reducing mechanical failures over 50%!!!

I work on vehicles that are run all day & night in every condition out there. My employer switched to a synthetic transmission oil in there B500 Allison's(a giant version of a GM Turbo 400) & the oil alone has ended many trans failures that used to be common. Oil also acts as a cooler or radiator that draws heat from friction(which synth reduces dramatically) on mechanical moving parts thus increasing the longevity due to less wear. Hell, I see the use of synthetic engine oil in use on lawnmowers from the factory today & guess what, they're lasting longer & not leaking!

As far as synths "ruining" an engine, sorry, the writing is on the wall that it was obviously poorly maintained & when the superior qualities of the synthetic(high detergent)took over, it did its job TOO good & cleaned up the junk & moved it from its long stagnated spots which in turn either cause leaks or worse, failure, more likely due to freeing up so much sludge that it blocked the oil pick up in the sump & probably clogged up the galleries, reducing oil pressure & ending with imminent failure. Not the oils fault, only the previous owners lack of maintainence. I see it ALL the time...

As far as ruining a seal that has been known to be problematic, I can't see how a reflection of the autos condition is relevant to the failure & then possibly blaming the oil...

There is nothing wrong at all with mineral based oils as long as you keep up with the maintenance of the vehicle & synthetics aren't a "magic cure all" but they are superior & will yield better results in the long run if applied correctly.


"IMO",
~S~

PS: Here's a pic of one of my beast...

 

[WillPlay4Food]

According to my owner's manual, I have to change my oil every 3K or lose my warranty. I use Mobil 1 which Mobil says needs to be changed about every 10K so I'm definitely changing more often then I need to (although if I kept the oil that long I'd still do filter changes every 3K).

I changed from dino to synth at about 5K and I plan to use synth until the car dies. Heck if oil keeps getting more expensive, synth may become the cheap option.

More and more high end cars (Mercedes, Corvette) are coming straight from the factory running synth oils. I'd imagine those auto manufacturer types are probably onto something. Although I did find it strange that my turbo 2.4L came from the factory with dino oil while the same engine in a different (and cheaper) model came from the factory with synth.