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Tabs=Bad. & No, This 'Isn't' in the Wrong Category

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#21
I vowed after getting flamed before by the 'notation crowd' that I would not post on the subject again but what the heck.

Tabs are ok to get the basic chords/parts/notes/whatever of a song but don't be surprised if they are inaccurate for the more complex parts. Don't use them as a crutch, only a signpost (don't stand there slavishly trying to read and play at the same time, you will only do one effectively, well for a start anyway. Learn the part and memorise it.) If they all sound fine then you are either playing very simple chord patterns, are very lucky that they are all spot on or you have not developed and ear for the bum note/chord yet.

Notation is fine if it is available for the music you are playing (and I would highly recommend it ;) ). As the stuff I have played for 40+ years is not transcribed I have never bothered to learn to read properly. I will no doubt get flamed again for this but do I care - nah. When I need to read music to get gigs I will learn (or retire).

I mainly work songs out from mp3s (it used to be CDs and before that cassette, reel to reel tape, vinyl) Yes it is hard work at first but does get easier the more you do it. You get to recognise intervals and hear changes coming up.

Disclaimer
IMO, YMMV etc etc.
 
#22
Fendbassfan said:
My opinion is that sitting down with headphones, a digital looper, and a blank piece of paper (and an eraser) is the best way to, 'get on track'.
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Yeah, If you have the time. Most band situations want you to come in and learn 3 sets worth of material like yesterday.....especially with gigs booked. TABS and Youtube are sometimes a savior. Im not proud, I'll say it.....I use tabs all the time.....but it gets me up there playing my bass:bassist:
 
#23
One of my guitar players handed me a printout of "Game of Love" by Santana - thinking I didn't know the song. It came from Guitar Player magazine and was actually a bass chart. It was some sort of hybrid tablature-timeline thing. Instead of a standard staff, it had a staff made of 4 lines where each line represented a string on a 4 string bass. It used barlines to break up the staff. Then each fret position dot had a flag for representing the time for each note just like notation. Some were even dotted!

It was even harder to read than standard notation. So I just kind of ignored it and played it from memory... Never mind the fact that I'm sure in at least two places it was completely wrong :-P
 
#24
I was trained from age 5 to deal with sheet music; Tabs make zero sense to me, the way playing Guitar Hero makes zero sense.

If a cat can make use of Tabs, great... but I have to say that I wouldn't respect at teacher who used them with his students.
 
#25
frankie5string said:
It was some sort of hybrid tablature-timeline thing. Instead of a standard staff, it had a staff made of 4 lines where each line represented a string on a 4 string bass. It used barlines to break up the staff. Then each fret position dot had a flag for representing the time for each note just like notation. Some were even dotted!It was even harder to read than standard notation.
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Notation/Tab Hybrid? WOW!! What is the point of that? When I look at Tab I scratch my head thinking, 'What's next? A game where you play Guitar, Bass, or Drums but it has no real application for playing a real instrument (may a bit rythym)? LOL.

With that in mind have you seen those 'REAL' guitars that were butchered to make Guitar Hero guitars?
 
#26
Jared Lash said:
Personally I think learning songs by ear is better than learning them via tabs OR musical notation but all three can be very useful tools under given circumstances.
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This. Well said. If I have zero time and need to learn songs quick, I'll use a tab or a chord sheet as my jumping off point. If I have the time, I learn by ear.
 
#28
If you don't like Tab, think Tab=bad,think they're stupid, they're all wrong, etc., then good for you. I'm not sure what is to be gained by letting everyone know & feeling the need to inform everyone of your superior methodology.

I use Tab. Have I come across some lousy Tabs? Of course. Generally though (for me) it's just a quicker way to the goal - learning to play the song. I approach a new Tab with skepticism knowing it is bound to have flaws or I may want to choose what is to me a better place to play any given note or phrases. I know no one cares so I normally don't feel the need to create a post about what I think of Tab or how I use it.

I know some Tab haters won't like this but trust me it's true - you can also analyze the song after learning it from a decent Tab and "learn something" from it.

And btw - if anyone knows a good source for good standard notation for a lot of rock music, let me know, I'm interested.
 
#30
Fendbassfan said:
Notation/Tab Hybrid? WOW!! What is the point of that? When I look at Tab I scratch my head thinking, 'What's next? A game where you play Guitar, Bass, or Drums but it has no real application for playing a real instrument (may a bit rythym)? LOL.

With that in mind have you seen those 'REAL' guitars that were butchered to make Guitar Hero guitars?
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So, you think that someone who straps on a bass and starts to rock out to tabs is basically playing a game? I had to have misunderstood you right?
 
#31
frankie5string said:
Are you referring to that weird Squier strat that has some sort of pickup in it to interface with GH but can still be plugged in? I've seen that - what an odd little guitar!
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Maybe. It was a real guitar they had modified. I think it was a Strat, but instead of strings they had put electronic sensors in the frets like the cheap little GH guitars, and they were going to mass produce them.
 
#32
MrM said:
And btw - if anyone knows a good source for good standard notation for a lot of rock music, let me know, I'm interested.
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...and herein lies the problem. In my case, I'm in two bands with horn sections. Those guys like everything written out. Some of them actually write out songs for fun and they nearly all do the bass charts in notation because it's actually a cool ear-training exercise for them! So I love getting their charts because they're usually bang on and really nice and clean. These days, with everyone charting from software, the software is all designed to minimize mid-song page turns and other no-nos for bass players... Horn players also seem to be very keenly aware of orchestration.

In other groups, I either get a page with lyrics and the chords written above them or sometimes I get Nashville Number System charts which aren't as graceful but do the job...

For those that don't know... the basic Nashville Number system is where the lyric sheet has the intervals (ie: 1, IV, V etc) written all over the place, and then the singer slaps the "root key" at the top of the page... it allows the musicians to accommodate singers who have their own preferred keys for the songs they like.

I bet a lot of people do just fine with tabs... I personally just can't read them - they're just too complicated and require too many dots, lines and grids to say "Eb" or "Db" ... But now with every song on Youtube I suppose you really can get away with not knowing a song and using only tab to get your fingerboard positions down and then your ears to get the rest?
 
#33
#34
Daveydude said:
So, you think that someone who straps on a bass and starts to rock out to tabs is basically playing a game? I had to have misunderstood you right?
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Yes, you misunderstood me. To clear up what I meant I will just say: I thought learning Tabs was an alternative to learning to read music. The whole point of the thread was to say don't take the Tabs as being always right. I had a guitar player who learned all our songs from Tab and me and the other guitarist used to get into arguments with him because he always had certain parts of the song wrong. Like staying on a chord instead of changing to the next chord. I'm sure most Tabs are basically accurate but seem to always leave out something, and if the other musicians learn it from the MP3instead of Tabs then there's gonna be problems. Go ahead and learn the song from Tabs if that's how you do it. Personally, I love to sit and work out songs by myself. I have the time and it's fun, and I always archive what I have worked out so I can brush up on it if the need arises. This is only my opinion and my experience with Tabs.
 
#35
Fendbassfan said:
LOL! It took me about one minute to figure it out before I even saw the Tab. How do you think l immediately knew they were wrong?I didn't 'look' for them but sometimes I like to print the the lyric sheet to make notes on background vocals and the tabs for head over heels were on the same page so I looked at them and they had it basically right, but left out at least 1 note for each chord change (sometimes more) of that little pattern that is practically the whole song AND the Bass Solo. What's funny is the chick singer in my band said that solo is the best bass solo she's ever heard. he he he. Oh well. She's young.
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The fact that anybody can just make a TAB and post is why there are so many bad ones. I guess it just becomes an issue of quality control and the Internet is notoriously bad at that.
 
#36
Fendbassfan said:
I had a guitar player who learned all our songs from Tab and me and the other guitarist used to get into arguments with him because he always had certain parts of the song wrong.
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I recall a time in the 90s when a lot of the newsgroup tabs were being developed that the general rule was that people made a lot of mistakes in "tabbing" songs to avoid being prosecuted. At the time record companies were actually going after kids who were tabbing out and posting their results online. I believe the guy who used to tab out all the Beatles songs (who has since passed away) ran into that boondoggle at one point.
 
#37
A couple observations:
1. At least 1/2 of the internet is "WRONG" (including TB).
2. Tab is a crutch. But its a great learning tool or at least "jog my memory tool".
3. Notation is a crutch. But its a great learning tool or at least "jog my memoy tool".
4. Reading fingers (guitards or keys) is a crutch but is a great learning tool.
5. Playing by ear is best cuz your audience is ohhh.......uhmmm......errr, listening by ear.
6. There is no "WRONG" way to play music.

The best is blending what you play with the rest of the band to make the best music your capable of. To hell with "right" and "wrong".
 
#39
dvh said:
It helps to get over the notion that you should play the song exactly like the recorded version.

+1 to that. Just because its recorded one way, often the player has moved beyond that. And just because they recorded it, doesn't mean I shouldn't fix it to suit my style and ear. Overthrow the record-copying hordes who won't think for themselves!:D
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#40
wideload said:
dvh said:
It helps to get over the notion that you should play the song exactly like the recorded version.

+1 to that. Just because its recorded one way, often the player has moved beyond that. And just because they recorded it, doesn't mean I shouldn't fix it to suit my style and ear. Overthrow the record-copying hordes who won't think for themselves!:D
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You tell that to some professional singers who are actually used to it working that way... There are lots of circumstances where you are expected to play something EXACTLY the way it was written and subsequently recorded...

Can you imagine what sort of havoc you'd wreak if you took a 2 minute bass solo during a musical-theatre gig or a showcase? or you left out a bar or two here because you felt like it?
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