Tabs=Bad. & No, This 'Isn't' in the Wrong Category

[Skitch it!]

I have 20 students, and for those age 16 or younger, learning sight reading skills in standard notation is mandatory. However, when my students want to play something that is far beyond their ability to sight read, TAB is a great tool. It helps them with position and fingering. You can even notate note value using TAB, denoting half, quarter, eighth, sixteenth notes. etc. It forces them to listen to the song carefully and develop their ear. No, TAB is not nearly as complete as standard notation, but it does help the beginning reader play a more complex piece that would otherwise be well within their ability, develop their ear and boost their confidence, self-esteem, and intuitive knowledge of the fingerboard, and that is the usefulness of TAB.

+1

Tbh in my limited experience with tab apart from the dreadful inaccuracy available, I was concerned that there wasn't any rhythmic denomination there. As you stated, that is the way forward for tab as a tool I feel too, give it rhythmic value. It has it's uses, especially for hand positions, which makes a big difference to the feel/sound of lines/inflections.

For younger student's, given that it has rhythmic values, it may be a good intro for notation for some.

 

[Fendbassfan]

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[Fendbassfan]

BTW, I like to chart a songs that way because I've played so many songs in my life that I've completely forgotten how to play and this way I have notes to look at if in a live situation someone requests a song that I've forgotten. Tabs chart would just be too confusing in that situation.

 

[Skitch it!]

BTW, I like to chart a songs that way because I've played so many songs in my life that I've completely forgotten how to play and this way I have notes to look at if in a live situation someone requests a song that I've forgotten. Tabs chart would just be too confusing in that situation.

+1

I use similar for quick uptake, especially dep's for short notice gig's, there is no way I could notate/tab 25 songs in 4 days and on a lot of the gigs they don't want you reading it off paper anyway.

I'll put the structure verses, chorus, mid 8's, bridges on paper but learn the parts and internalize them, any fill's, cues, integral parts I note them. I don't want to have to squint at charts all night if I can help it

But it depends what type of gig it is.

 

[Babaghanoush]

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[Smallmouth_Bass]

I have referred to TABs, but as previously mentioned, most are not very accurate. I think it's because anyone can and will post a TAB, and people are generally lazy and what happens is one or two bad TABs spread around for any given song.

When I notate songs, I end up knowing the song inside out; how many bars of what, the structure and the exact rhythm and notes. Plus, once you've done all the work, you have it and just have to read the part given you can read standard notation.

While I won't go as far as saying TAB equals bad, if you are planning to be serious about music, learning to read and transcribe is an invaluable skill.

Imagine not being able to read (words). That would greatly impact most people's day to day life. I imagine it would be the same for a working musician, even though some can pick up stuff quickly by ear.

 

[electracoyote]

Both these statements totally befuddle me and if I had a child taking Bass lessons and he told me this is what his teacher told him I probably would be talking to the teacher.

1st, Explain why is 16 or younger the cutoff date to have to learn to read music? I see no reason for that statement.

My students stay with me approximately three years on average. Parents are thrilled with their children's progress in both technical ability (like reading standard notation) and intuitive musicianship and memorization (derived in part from the use of tablature).

2nd, why would reading tabs be the tool to help with hand postition? One of the 1st things a teacher teaching someone to play Bass (after having them learn the notes for each string) is to teach 1st postition and give exercises to practice playing notes on it, then 2nd Position and so on.

Good TAB, like the kind I write for my students, denotes fingerings. This naturally leads to discussions and knowledge of positions beyond Pos. 1, and way before they are astutue enough readers to read those positions in standard notation.

3rd) Notation is so much precise and easier to denote time signatures and rhythym patterns. Statement seems reversed to me.

Note value and synchopation can also be notated on good TAB. I admitted it is not as thorough, but is is not completely absent either.

I consider age 16 and beyond the age of consent with my students. If they just want to get faster, better, and play songs without the academic aspect of formal music and standard notation, that is their choice. I make this clear to parents, and they enter the contract with eyes wide open. Interestingly, I have just as many young adults/adults who opt for formal study.

The blend of intuitive and academic works very well with my students, and as I mentioned, they stick with me for a good long time. I have an excellent reputation in my community, have helped produce some fine guitarists and bassists who are very active in the music and entertainment world, and I have a waiting list as long as my arm.

No guilt whatsoever about the judicious use of TAB here.

 

[Staccato]

+1


An awful lot of notation I've found on the internet is also incorrect.
When I can find a Guitar Pro file that is sorta' close I'm happy. It is then easy to edit and both tab and notation are available.

+1

And, people that actively criticise others notation, or tabs without posting a better one are troublemakers!

Don't criticise someone else's work unless you care to post a public, better tab or performance. Yes, this means you!

 

[Fendbassfan]

This thread has strayed off track (even by me). My whole of this thread was to say that to learn a song to gig by, tab alone is not a good idea because the tabs I see (and i don't look at very many) are usually wrong and lacking in important detail. It really looks like almost every one agrees with this assessment. Very good discussion and sorry for maybe being to opinionated about the trend of replacing music theory with Tab. I guess I'm a traditionalist.

 

[Fendbassfan]

+1

And, people that actively criticise others notation, or tabs without posting a better one are troublemakers!

Don't criticise someone else's work unless you care to post a public, better tab or performance. Yes, this means you!

-1

What ever happened to pride of workmanship? Do you believe everyonw should have to fix others mistakes? I would be embarrassed to put up a Youtubw video of me playing a song wrong, or playing a song wrong in front of people. Same goes for posting a tab.

 

[Staccato]

-1

What ever happened to pride of workmanship? Do you believe everyonw should have to fix others mistakes? I would be embarrassed to put up a Youtubw video of me playing a song wrong, or playing a song wrong in front of people. Same goes for posting a tab.

Great point. However, I was more thinking about people that trash others on the web for sport. (Much of that is undeserved, ya know?)

This thread has strayed off track (even by me). My whole of this thread was to say that to learn a song to gig by, tab alone is not a good idea because the tabs I see (and i don't look at very many) are usually wrong and lacking in important detail. It really looks like almost every one agrees with this assessment. Very good discussion and sorry for maybe being to opinionated about the trend of replacing music theory with Tab. I guess I'm a traditionalist.

So true!

I see two primary choices for finding written music for gigs...

A. Buy the © copyright protected sheet music, and read the notation in hopes that it will be very close to your intended gig version.
B. Use available tab, and adapt the key or variances for what you need.

Where tab is concerned, perhaps none (or few) will be accurate for your purposes.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I think we need a new term. As far as tabs written by people and posted on the internet, I've never used them. From time to time, in an effort to speed things up I've searched things out, and I don't think I ever found anything correct.

On the other hand, tab you find in Hal Leonard books, Bass Player mag, etc. is just about always dead on (lest sometimes the positioning). These I've used because if they're available they can often help save a lot of time. I think they should be called something else.

90% of what I learn I learn by ear. I was lucky that I had to learn when all the stuff that's available today wasn't available. All my albums skipped from the abuse I put them through. Why anyone would be against tab is beyond me. It's a tool and a means of communications. Trusting the tab people post on the internet is another story.

 

[electracoyote]

This thread has strayed off track (even by me). My whole of this thread was to say that to learn a song to gig by, tab alone is not a good idea because the tabs I see (and i don't look at very many) are usually wrong and lacking in important detail. It really looks like almost every one agrees with this assessment. Very good discussion and sorry for maybe being to opinionated about the trend of replacing music theory with Tab. I guess I'm a traditionalist.

I think you made a good point when you kept the discussion confined to that.

Bad TAB is bad TAB, that's pretty obvious. I've seen some pretty bad standard notation as well. A song that is not faithfully notated, regardless of the method, is just, well, bad.

However, good TAB, well-notated TAB, serves a good purpose and has a place in the whole lexicon of teaching/learning methods. It's not the be-all end-all of learning, it's but one tool.

I'm certainly not advocating replacing learning theory or sight reading standard notation with TAB. I encourage my students to become good readers of standard, but we do use TAB as well, appropriately and productively.

One thing a loose piece of TAB does is forces my students to use their ear more, especially to figure out synchopation. I want my students to hear the bass line as clear as the lead melody, get it imprinted in their brain, and then use their intuitive rhythmic skills to duplicate the line, using the TAB as a rough guide.

That in itself is VERY educational.

My lessons usually involve about 70% standard notation, and the rest with the ocassional TAB'd song or similarly intuitive stuff (like universal patterns).

It is VERY motivating and keeps my students inspired. They are more willing to do the relatively more difficult sight reading stuff if they have a fun TAB song as a reward.

 

[spaz21387]

Id say tabs are great for beginners. Or if you want to get the basic notes for a song but the op is right they are never fully correct. I play by ear now but I admit starting out I used tabs.

 

[DwaynieAD]

the problem being that one dude will write a bad tab and post it on every tab site on the net.. check out the name on "all those bad tabs" i'll be they are by the same person.

also i think you are being overly dramatic that you've never ever ever in all of creation seen a tab that wasn't wrong..

thinly veiled "tabs suck" troll

 

[LIONFURY]

I agree. I hate tab. I put the song on repeat and learn by ear and the results are always better than learning with tab

 

[Rebecca]

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[dvh]

It helps to get over the notion that you should play the song exactly like the recorded version.

+1 to that. Just because its recorded one way, often the player has moved beyond that. And just because they recorded it, doesn't mean I shouldn't fix it to suit my style and ear. Overthrow the record-copying hordes who won't think for themselves!

You tell that to some professional singers who are actually used to it working that way... There are lots of circumstances where you are expected to play something EXACTLY the way it was written and subsequently recorded...

Can you imagine what sort of havoc you'd wreak if you took a 2 minute bass solo during a musical-theatre gig or a showcase? or you left out a bar or two here because you felt like it?

Sure, change the song, IF, EVERYONE agrees that you aren't gonna play it like the studio version (maybe incorporate the live version, or stretch out the guitar solo). However, some just don't want to take the time and actually play the changes different. My experience is if everyone has a recording of the song it makes it so much easier to get tight. Band practice is for working on endings and vocal harmonies, not for learning the song.

Obviously, there is a middle ground out there depending on the level of confidence and competency of the musicians. AND, the nature of the piece and performance context.

My original point is this: being a musician does NOT mean listening to a recording and learning a song EXACTLY the same. Structure and arrangement is one thing. But, note for note? Where's the fun and creativity in that?

YMMV

 

[Mayers]

I think TAB is one of the plagues of the modern music world because it create robot instead of really learn what the hell you are doing. I really like standart notation because you can learn everything you wish and because I can choose to play something in a position that I prefer ( because I know the notes that I play instead of number ).As a musician you owe to learn thing right.
I really don't get why , because you are a bass player or a guitar player, that you can have that crutch. We even have frets on our instrument to help us with intonation ...

 

[Fendbassfan]

But, note for note? Where's the fun and creativity in that?YMMV

I take it as a challenge to learn exactly what the Bass player does in a song and by doing that there are many great Bass players who I have taken some of their technique and added it to mine and improved my playing, BUT, that said, even though I usually begin the son exactly like the original Bass player does, many times I add my own interpretion to those songs, expecially in passing notes.