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Double Bass Tailgut material affect on sound?

DuluthDank

DuluthDank

May 11, 2008
2,121
3,369
Minneapolis, MN
#1
I recently switched from a braided metal tailgut to a Kevlar one, and feel like some power and high frequencies may have been lost from my tone (jazz pizzicato, Spicrocore, you get the idea). Does anybody have any experiences with such a change affecting the tone of their bass? I hate to make a fuss about it and switch back if there is no basis for me to think it is the fault of the tailgut. The soundpost was repositioned and the bass bar was refitted as part of the same transaction, so a lot of variables were changed. I find that I have to dig in more and play closer to the bridge to get anything close to the satisfying snap and power I was getting before, and the tension of the strings seems to be lower now. Any thoughts?
 
#2
Arnold Schnitzer posted his observations here a few years ago. Iirc, players seemed to experience louder mids, but at the expense of clarity and fundamental. Jazzers seemed to like it but classical players not so much. Again, I'm not quoting him. This is just how I remember it.
 
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#3
That's a lot of surgery at one time, so I would suspect that your bass might be getting used to the new way it vibrates. I've been using Kevlar or some such non-wire tail gut for years and appreciate the greater clarity in the mid range and the easier feel on the pizz. Double check the sound post position. It might be a tad too far south. YMMV
 
#6
I've tried kevlar and braided synthetic ropes of different sizes, had a go at braided steel cables too over the past 30 years but now that i got this 60+ year young chekoslovakian bass that has a carved belly. It still has its original solid coat hanger wire. I've changed it to kevlar for 3 months but when i put the wire back (out of interest) i found the tone of my bass was richer and more focused so I've left it on. Using old spiro mittels. Reduced virtations but still enough to produce a very nice tone. Anyone out there still using solid hanger wire?
 
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#7
timobee4 said:
Anyone out there still using solid hanger wire?
Click to expand...

I have a Chinese bass that came with solid tailpiece wire. I wanted to swap it out, but the luthier I go to talked me out of it. He thinks it's fine and plenty strong. Definitely not coat hanger wire though. It's a lot thinner. I can't comment on any sound changes as I've never swapped the tailgut out. The bass sure sounds good for what it is though.
 
#9
Hello,

On french forum, I've found some thread about the importance of the tailgut ( user Gougi --> luthier say that tailgut gut-like sounds better ex : scherttler velvet)
Chevalet Contrebasse Belge

The topic starts about the type of bridge and how it's affect the sound ( french, german, Belgian shape ) .
A user 've changed his steel tailgut with a velvet and he must admit that the tailgut affect the sounds ( here in a positive way)

Here too, sorry in french, but a good nylon tailgut affect the sound.
Attache cordier nylon? - FORUM DE LA CONTREBASSE

here is the velvet tailgut, I don't know where to buy it in europe or usa and the exact price ( around 30 €, so quite expensive if we compare to other tailgut)

Link Removed
 
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#10
Mister Cbass said:
Hello,

On french forum, I've found some thread about the importance of the tailgut ( user Gougi --> luthier say that tailgut gut-like sounds better ex : scherttler velvet)
Chevalet Contrebasse Belge

The topic starts about the type of bridge and how it's affect the sound ( french, german, Belgian shape ) .
A user 've changed his steel tailgut with a velvet and he must admit that the tailgut affect the sounds ( here in a positive way)

Here too, sorry in french, but a good nylon tailgut affect the sound.
Attache cordier nylon? - FORUM DE LA CONTREBASSE

here is the velvet tailgut, I don't know where to buy it in europe or usa and the exact price ( around 30 €, so quite expensive if we compare to other tailgut)

Link Removed
Click to expand...
Velvet Tailpiece Gut

https://www.stringemporium.com/velvet-tailpiece-cord-60.htm
 
#12
RCWilliams said:
There are differences in the polymers in some of the suitable cords for tail guts, when I was looking into it a bit over a decade ago, the most resistant to stretch was "Spectra". It is the stuff they used to fly the cameras over stadiums, back when there were sports that is.
Click to expand...
RC... ha ha or anyone else that might have knowledge on this topic... I found a vendor that sells Spectra cord in smaller lengths than a huge spool. The price is fine, and I would like to try it. However I am wondering which diameter would work best for a DB gut. I have it narrowed down to 2 dia. sizes.
1. 1.2mm | 4 ply = 285 lbs tinsel strength
2. 1.9mm | 8ply = 480 lbs tinsel strength
I like the idea of the gut cord being as small of a dia. as possible. Would the 1.2mm give me enough strength for a DB with , or should I try the 1.9mm. My take is that a smaller dia. would give better unrestricted vibration, but I have a 5 string DB with high C, and don't want to compromise the integrity of the gut under a full load from the strings. Any words of wisdom anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!
 
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#13
timobee4 said:
I've tried kevlar and braided synthetic ropes of different sizes, had a go at braided steel cables too over the past 30 years but now that i got this 60+ year young chekoslovakian bass that has a carved belly. It still has its original solid coat hanger wire. I've changed it to kevlar for 3 months but when i put the wire back (out of interest) i found the tone of my bass was richer and more focused so I've left it on. Using old spiro mittels. Reduced virtations but still enough to produce a very nice tone. Anyone out there still using solid hanger wire?
Click to expand...
I just acquired a 1953 Kay S-51-B Chubby Jackson DB. It looks great but I really haven't had the opportunity to play it much. It came with some cheapo Red Line standard strings, and a warped bridge. My luthier is fitting an adjustable bridge to it, and I will be using Gut strings with a high C and copper wound gut A&E on it. It sounded ok with the solid gut, but no where near what I would like to hear . I'm sure the gut strings will sound 1000% better than the cheapo strings it came with. I am planning on doing an A/B test with the solid gut and then a spectra gut to see which I like better. I will post in this thread when I have any opinion on the difference in the guts.
I also read in another similar thread that steel gut vs cord gut sound different on different DBs. So I guess nothing is set in stone. All personal preference as to what you want to hear from the DB you own. I have read that some players had found more volume , and richer tone with the cord gut, and some like steel better. I will have to find out for myself which I like best. To be continued. :)
 
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#14
SMollock said:
RC... ha ha or anyone else that might have knowledge on this topic... I found a vendor that sells Spectra cord in smaller lengths than a huge spool. The price is fine, and I would like to try it. However I am wondering which diameter would work best for a DB gut. I have it narrowed down to 2 dia. sizes.
1. 1.2mm | 4 ply = 285 lbs tinsel strength
2. 1.9mm | 8ply = 480 lbs tinsel strength
I like the idea of the gut cord being as small of a dia. as possible. Would the 1.2mm give me enough strength for a DB with , or should I try the 1.9mm. My take is that a smaller dia. would give better unrestricted vibration, but I have a 5 string DB with high C, and don't want to compromise the integrity of the gut under a full load from the strings. Any words of wisdom anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...

I have a tendency to go on the heavy side, I think I bought 3 to 3.5mm. the appearance is similar to aircraft cable size wise. Breaking strength was way up there, and it was available in black, or at least a dark charcoal color. in order to tie it, a bowline hitch was the only knot that would hold consistently. 1.2mm is a good size for violin and viola, but at the time it only came in grey. I have a reel of the 1.2 mm that I use to string up outdoor lights at my house, impervious top the weather, and no sag for the 5 or six years it was up, about 40 foot runs.
 
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#15
SMollock said:
RC... ha ha or anyone else that might have knowledge on this topic... I found a vendor that sells Spectra cord in smaller lengths than a huge spool. The price is fine, and I would like to try it. However I am wondering which diameter would work best for a DB gut. I have it narrowed down to 2 dia. sizes.
1. 1.2mm | 4 ply = 285 lbs tinsel strength
2. 1.9mm | 8ply = 480 lbs tinsel strength
I like the idea of the gut cord being as small of a dia. as possible. Would the 1.2mm give me enough strength for a DB with , or should I try the 1.9mm. My take is that a smaller dia. would give better unrestricted vibration, but I have a 5 string DB with high C, and don't want to compromise the integrity of the gut under a full load from the strings. Any words of wisdom anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Add the tension of the five strings, add 50% and this is how much the tail wire needs to be able to hold. So, at least 1.9 mm I think.
 
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#17
I would be hesitant to use Spectra for tailgut. It does have very low initial stretching, and is super strong and light, but under constant tension it continues to elongate over time (this is called "creep"), even at well under its breaking strength.
 

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