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Tal Wilkenfeld...maybe I'm missing something...

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#244
I got to catch Beck on his last tour. I was not impressed with Tal or the keyboardist. Jeff & Vinnie could have done the show alone. As far as her sound …it was a distorted mud fest. From where I was sitting I could see her amp was clipping most the night. I so looked forward to hearing Led Boots & it just laid there. She didn’t drive it home at all. Jeff was on fire…great tone and raw expression a cat like Jeff Berlin would have been the ticket with Beck & Colaiuta.
 
#245
Rick Robins said:
I got to catch Beck on his last tour. I was not impressed with Tal or the keyboardist. Jeff & Vinnie could have done the show alone. As far as her sound …it was a distorted mud fest. From where I was sitting I could see her amp was clipping most the night. I so looked forward to hearing Led Boots & it just laid there. She didn’t drive it home at all. Jeff was on fire…great tone and raw expression a cat like Jeff Berlin would have been the ticket with Beck & Colaiuta.
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Tal goes direct to the board using an Avalon U5. She uses EBS 650's on stage, and my guess is, you were seeing the compressor light engage on her hardest hits.

I also saw Jeff live, but with Vinnie and Randy Hope Taylor (instead of Tal). Randy's tone was awful also. I have a feeling Jeff has some old rock and roll numbnut running the board from 'back in the day'. Tons of guitar (as it should be with his gig!), tons of bass drum... tinny keyboard sound, muddy bass.

Tal's tone on the DVD and CD of that tour is something to die for IMO (of course, I like a modern J bass tone with plenty of upper mid grind).
 
#246
Rick Robins said:
I got to catch Beck on his last tour. I was not impressed with Tal or the keyboardist. Jeff & Vinnie could have done the show alone. As far as her sound …it was a distorted mud fest. From where I was sitting I could see her amp was clipping most the night. I so looked forward to hearing Led Boots & it just laid there. She didn’t drive it home at all. Jeff was on fire…great tone and raw expression a cat like Jeff Berlin would have been the ticket with Beck & Colaiuta.
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This really comes off as arrogant and condescending. Do you REALLY think Tal doesn't know when her own amp is clipping?
I also saw Tal with Jeff last April and you know what? SHE is the reason I was even there. If jeff wanted to reach new audiences as well as entertain, he has accomplished that with me as well as thousands of other people. With that in mind, I'd say Jeff has made some good choices. Tal has "it" and no matter how good a player is, if he or she does not have the "it factor", they are just not going to have the same appeal. Jeff obviously knows this and he's the one who calls the shots. Tal was not there to impress Rick. She was there to play the song and she impressed Jeff and he's the boss.
 
#247
Kjung, I did not know she went direct but the light seemed to coincide with some god awful low end racket. Thanks for the clarification. You are most likely right about the rock guy at the board. I will add I don’t trust modern so called LIVE CD’s & DVD’s.

BassX, I'm sorry you find my opinion of what I witnessed & the impression it left me with arrogant and condescending. As for her knowing if her amp was clipping. I would not be surprised If she didn’t. I have been around many a player that could play & did not know the first thing about their gear. As far as Jeff reaching new audiences & entertaining. I went to see musicians not Michael Jackson…he was an entertainer. By you saying Jeff hired Tal on to attract new audiences is saying he used her as a gimmick to sell tickets like Kiss wears make up & blows stuff up. Yes Tal has “it” but her “it” is in the beginning stages.. I think two veterans of their instruments like Beck & Vinnie would have put on a better collaborative musical presentation with aged, veteran players like themselves. I know she was not there to impress me but her PRESS that I read proceeded her performance I witnessed. Other players with 0 press I have witnessed would have done a better job in my opinion but then again buy having Tal ,Jeff sold you a ticket.
 
#248
Rick Robins said:
Kjung, I did not know she went direct but the light seemed to coincide with some god awful low end racket. Thanks for the clarification. You are most likely right about the rock guy at the board. I will add I don’t trust modern so called LIVE CD’s & DVD’s.

BassX, I'm sorry you find my opinion of what I witnessed & the impression it left me with arrogant and condescending. As for her knowing if her amp was clipping. I would not be surprised If she didn’t. I have been around many a player that could play & did not know the first thing about their gear. As far as Jeff reaching new audiences & entertaining. I went to see musicians not Michael Jackson…he was an entertainer. By you saying Jeff hired Tal on to attract new audiences is saying he used her as a gimmick to sell tickets like Kiss wears make up & blows stuff up. Yes Tal has “it” but her “it” is in the beginning stages.. I think two veterans of their instruments like Beck & Vinnie would have put on a better collaborative musical presentation with aged, veteran players like themselves. I know she was not there to impress me but her PRESS that I read proceeded her performance I witnessed. Other players with 0 press I have witnessed would have done a better job in my opinion but then again buy having Tal ,Jeff sold you a ticket.
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Of course you wouldn't trust modern CDs and DVDs with more contolled conditions. When a player you have a problem with actually sounds good on them, why would you want to trust that sound? How else could you continue calling their sound "god aweful low end racket" if you were to actualy hear their true GOOD tone? Acoustics and the guys running the board have A LOT to do with how a bassist sounds in a particular venue.

Your comment is just as arrogant as the last. No need to apologize to me as that is your problem not mine. By my acknowleging Jeff was able to "reach new audiences and entertain" does not in any way belittle Tal to being a "gimmick". Much to the contrary, she has been an asset. She would never have had that gig (or ANY of the gigs she's had) if she couldn't play and have something to add to the music. You can infer as negatively and simplistic as you'd like to but please don't put words in my mouth.
 
#249
BASSX,
I never said she couldn’t play. I simply stated I, along with other musicians who attended the same show as me simply did not find her the best fit, nor did she live up to the hype bestowed upon her.. May I add the fellow that started this thread named it” Tal Wilkenfeld...maybe I'm missing something... “ for a reason. Apparently I am not the only one who feels this way regarding Tal. Hence why I commented in the first place. I found it interesting that myself & the others who had thought this locally were not the only ones.

As far as my lack of trust in modern CDs and DVDs. The more controlled conditions you speak of is called overdub what was captured live to keep people thinking that live music is just like an MTV video. I find pro shot foreign live broadcasts sold as bootlegs to be a more reliable source of how a player or group truly sound live, rather than a prepackaged product released to the unaware masses.. Her overall sound I described “as a distorted mud fest” the "god awful low end racket" was an additional description as to her sound when the light on her gear lit up like a Xmas tree.

As far as putting words in your mouth , you stated “SHE is the reason I was even there”. I took that as you didn’t to care to see Jeff play his classics yet you bought a Jeff Beck ticket. You went to see Tal Correct?

I hope this is the last of this tit for tat kiddie crap. If you like her than good for you. If you believe CD’s & DVD’s of live shows are the real deal ..go right ahead.
 
#251
Rick Robins said:
BY YOU SAYING Jeff hired Tal on to attract new audiences IS SAYING HE USED HER AS A GIMMICK to sell tickets like Kiss wears make up & blows stuff up.
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This is not what I'm saying but think what you'd like rick. You conveniently left out the part where I said she had the gig because she could play. Everything else is icing on the cake.

Rick Robins said:
The more controlled conditions you speak of is called overdub what was captured live to keep people thinking that live music is just like an MTV video.
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I seriously doubt her solo on the Clapton DVD or the entire Ronnie Scotts DVD was overdubbed. Recording live DOES come with a certain amount of control. If you think they stuck a Zoom in the middle of the club and overdubbed that, well... Also, her tone on her solo CD is right on the money.

Rick Robins said:
I hope this is the last of this tit for tat kiddie crap. If you like her than good for you. If you believe CD’s & DVD’s of live shows are the real deal ..go right ahead.
Click to expand...

You should really read my posts before responding to them. As long as you respond directly to me with twisted, negative interpretations of my posts, then yes, I will most likely respond and clarify my position.
There are many people (many in this thread) who don't think much of Tal. That's fine. There are also those of us who do like her. To each his own. The problem lies with someone like you who wants to claim matter-of-factly that she doesn't even know when her own amp is clipping. Comments like that say a lot more about you than her. You got this right: I did go to a JB show mainly to see Tal, then Vinnie, then Jeff (in that order) and by doing so, found myself in awe of Jeff's playing. If I were to have left there unimpressed with Jeff, it would matter much. Music is a business and he sold a ticket, yes.

Goodbye Rick
 
#252
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Tal Wilkenfeld gets major work because she's DAMN GOOD and for no other reason!

At the risk of sounding like a knee jerk male liberal I gotta say women get it rough in the goddamn music business.
 
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#254
b_carville said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Tal Wilkenfeld gets major work because she's DAMN GOOD and for no other reason!

At the risk of sounding like a knee jerk male liberal I gotta say women get it rough in the goddamn music business.
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Yup she is good at what she does, but what she does just not appeal everybody. Me personnaly I gotta agree that her tone is just like any jazz guy's with ''fender's'' or whatever copies. She cops all that jazz melodic and grooves, but it's really not my style.

Yes, the music business is hard for women but it is too for a litle Quebecer with a Master in music.(Not talking of me, but more of me in 4 years.)

All in all, she's good, but not my style at all.
 
#257
Really, what a bunch of jealous judgmental flotsam... And really, who cares what anyone you (us) has to say... She's got the gig! GET over Yourselves... She has great meter, tone and is articulate... And please, all of the sexist remarks about mammaries and breast, go work on why you are still attached to your mommies... BassXgirl said it right, this thread is pretty disgusting. What's it got to do with playing the bass?
 
#259
why close it? as we careen toward the brink of self-censorship in all aspects of amerikan kulture, it seems that the minute people disagree strongly, crudely, passionately, clumsily, articulately or inarticulately with our own views and preconceptions, we're eager to shut 'em off/down. that goes for the right AND the left.

tal is nothing special. a little jaco, a little marcus, some generic sam ash grooves, a lotta pre-packaged hype. nothing that's not posted on youtube by 100 17-year olds sitting in their homes. she had her "breakthrough" solo on "cuz we ended as lovers", got the bassmag world drooling ("chick!!" "chops!!" etc), and has backed into one of the best gigs on the planet with a fair chops package and a huge novelty factor.

does that mean she's horrible, and can't play? HELL no. she's perfectly good, no more no less.
does that mean that everybody who smells the strong marketing whiff of "emperor's new clothes" (including me) should be silenced?................
 
#260
It has nothing to do with censorship in america. That's a little dramatic. TB is not America and has its own rules and standards in place. This thread has derailed a long time ago from people simply stating weather they liked her playing or not to outright low blows. Nobody should be subjected to a beat down like this. If the mods here at TB decide this thread has run its course then that's their decision to make. It has nothing to do with censorship or wanting everyone to like the same style of music or bassists.
 
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