Bassist4Eris
Frat-Pack Sympathizer
In my experience many digital modulation pedals are actually superior to their analog competitors. I've yet to find a phaser I like better than the one I've got dialed into my Source Audio Orbital.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Talk me into digital pedals!
- Thread starter Inconnu
- Start date
I tend to stay away from digital pedals but only because they introduce latency in my signal. I use IEMs and the digital wireless adds 4ms latency, the digital mixer adds another two, and every digital pedal in between usually adds another 2-3 ms latency. 10ms is audible to me and starts throwing me off. So I've got room in the latency budget for only a couple of digital things. That said if you've got a good modeler that does everything you want and it only adds a couple ms for everything it's doing, then it's definitely worth it if you really like the sound.
Love your (contradictory, sometimes...) posts!
It all helps me to think! That's pretty much the point of posting here. I don't expect a straight answer, just elements helping me towards my own personal conclusion.
I realize I dont need a zillion sounds, and pretty much know what I want... I just haven't found what pedal actually does that sound!
Easy: a modulation pedal that sounds similar to the sound of the bass solo at the end of Vital signs from Rush! If anybody as a solid answer on that one (analog, digital, whatever!) I'm all ears! And yes... I know Geddy's fingers are involved in that sound (and some overdrive... but I got this part covered
)
It all helps me to think! That's pretty much the point of posting here. I don't expect a straight answer, just elements helping me towards my own personal conclusion.
I realize I dont need a zillion sounds, and pretty much know what I want... I just haven't found what pedal actually does that sound!
Easy: a modulation pedal that sounds similar to the sound of the bass solo at the end of Vital signs from Rush! If anybody as a solid answer on that one (analog, digital, whatever!) I'm all ears! And yes... I know Geddy's fingers are involved in that sound (and some overdrive... but I got this part covered
)
Don't be in too much of a hurry, we're in the "traditional" NAMM time period and something new and amazing could be announced in the next week or two. Eventide announced essentially EOL for the H9, so maybe they have something new coming out? Maybe?
Emphasis and heavy reformatting mine, but I wanna make sure we aren't missing something.
1. I know this is the era of covid, but you do say you're local to the shop. Is there a reason they aren't allowing you to come in and play through the pedal? Surely hearing its sound would help you make your decision, better than we can.
2. As long as they sound good, this checks out
3. As long as it sounds good, this checks out
4. This harps back to part 1. Why isn't the 'local boutique shop' letting you play through it?
If you ARE able to play through it, and YOU like the way it sounds, then it's a win.
You wanna know a secret? Tube amps sound bad*, but they're all we had to amplify with, and we basically trained ourselves to enjoy that type of distortion. What started as the best possible compromise became so desired that we're purposefully reintroducing these signal imperfections to clean signals.
*when I say bad, I mean inaccurately distorted. The goal in 1906 was to get ANYTHING. The goal in the 1960s was to get MORE using the technologies we identified in and around 1906. There is nothing to gain from holding tube amp sound as 'the ideal target' instead of 'the original attempt at the ideal target'.
I dont think so.
At least in my experience.
I bought a boss gt1b and ended up selling all my analog pedals.
No more pot scratch noises, bad wirings or bad jack connections.
Everything sounds crystal clear everytime.
1. Local being a large concept... 6 to 8 hours drive in a context when I'm not supposed to leave my region... you know what I mean.
That said, I'm not in a hurry. I'm starting to think I'll wait until I can go out there and try stuff... normal life will come back... I'm just bloody bored and I try to make up by solving gear issues
dang.
Now Thats (Not) What I Call Local, Vol. 2021
Anyway, does sound like you're in a tough spot, and it makes a lot more sense now. I'd say digital is pretty trustable, but if you can't hear it yourself, what's their return policy like?
Now Thats (Not) What I Call Local, Vol. 2021
Anyway, does sound like you're in a tough spot, and it makes a lot more sense now. I'd say digital is pretty trustable, but if you can't hear it yourself, what's their return policy like?
I have some analog and digital pedals. If you look at a digital like the Source chorus it's true that it may be more effort to dial it in unless you like what is available from the community. But the flip side is if you don't like the way an analog pedal works for you it's not any value to you. I like the flexibility.
There's no single answer.
There's no single answer.
I will also recommend checking out Source Audio Gear, Low latency and great sound.
Some info missing from your post.1. Local being a large concept... 6 to 8 hours drive in a context when I'm not supposed to leave my region... you know what I mean.
That said, I'm not in a hurry. I'm starting to think I'll wait until I can go out there and try stuff... normal life will come back... I'm just bloody bored and I try to make up by solving gear issues
- Like what pedal is it?
- What is your most stringent use; live, home recording, professional recording?
- If you are using live or for home (non commercial) recording, then I doubt you will have sonic issues other than the basic quality issues found in any pedal (analogue or digital)
- Read the reviews
I traditionally have not enjoyed digital processing, including a Kemper and Helix and many previous iterations. Then I bought a Source Audio C4 because i was bored during the gig quarantine. I was easily able to replicate both my analog octave and filter and then some. I have 2 more SA pedals somewhere in the post office on order. My experience may not be yours. FYI, you absolutely need to use the neuro app with these pedals, so if you only like plug and play, analog may still be a better choice.
Digital audio involves a few things that analog audio doesn't.
1) Sampling - the audio is not passed at every time point, but at regular intervals. Done frequently enough (we can all argue about what freqently enough means, I suppose), this is not much of an issue.
Sampling also invoves filtering to avoid aliasing (creating frequencies that weren't there to begin with - aliasing can, with tonal signals, sound pretty crappy). If the sampling is done more frequently, the affect of this filtering on the audio can be pretty gentle and still avoid aliasing.
2) Quantization - assigning a number to every sample as to the value of the auio signal at that point. If you have enough bits and a good enough A/D, this becomes a minor (if not insignificant) issue.
The issue is really if it's done well or not - digital isn't a black or white thing.
Now, let's talk about an analog delay (or chorus or flanger) pedal. It uses something called a bucket brigade chip. It doesn't quantize the signal into a discrete number, but it DOES sample the audio. That means al the problems with sampling are present in such devices. How well does it sample the audio? Generally, not that well - turning the delay time knob on your analog delay (or the chorus depth knob) usually means you're changing the sampling rate. Not having a fixed sampling rate often brings in compromises in terms of filtering - you can easily have aliasing if there iisn't enough filtering. Often that means chopping off some high frequencies to make sure the aliasing doesn't bite you, which means your analog peadl sounds "warmer" It isn't warmer because it's analog, it's warmer because if they didn't do that, it would sound crappy. There's no reason that, if you like that sound, you can't make a warm sounding digital delay - it's just a matter of different filtering.
In summary, digital delay and time based modulation pedals don't have some achilles heel that makes them inferior. Analog delay and time based modulation pedals, on the other hand, do have some limits that can get in the way of good performance.
1) Sampling - the audio is not passed at every time point, but at regular intervals. Done frequently enough (we can all argue about what freqently enough means, I suppose), this is not much of an issue.
Sampling also invoves filtering to avoid aliasing (creating frequencies that weren't there to begin with - aliasing can, with tonal signals, sound pretty crappy). If the sampling is done more frequently, the affect of this filtering on the audio can be pretty gentle and still avoid aliasing.
2) Quantization - assigning a number to every sample as to the value of the auio signal at that point. If you have enough bits and a good enough A/D, this becomes a minor (if not insignificant) issue.
The issue is really if it's done well or not - digital isn't a black or white thing.
Now, let's talk about an analog delay (or chorus or flanger) pedal. It uses something called a bucket brigade chip. It doesn't quantize the signal into a discrete number, but it DOES sample the audio. That means al the problems with sampling are present in such devices. How well does it sample the audio? Generally, not that well - turning the delay time knob on your analog delay (or the chorus depth knob) usually means you're changing the sampling rate. Not having a fixed sampling rate often brings in compromises in terms of filtering - you can easily have aliasing if there iisn't enough filtering. Often that means chopping off some high frequencies to make sure the aliasing doesn't bite you, which means your analog peadl sounds "warmer" It isn't warmer because it's analog, it's warmer because if they didn't do that, it would sound crappy. There's no reason that, if you like that sound, you can't make a warm sounding digital delay - it's just a matter of different filtering.
In summary, digital delay and time based modulation pedals don't have some achilles heel that makes them inferior. Analog delay and time based modulation pedals, on the other hand, do have some limits that can get in the way of good performance.
There is truth in your statement for some effects, but many modulation pedals mix an analog dry signal with a delayed wet signal - there is no latency to the dry signal. There is latency to the delayed signal, but that's the whole point - that has to happen to make a chorus, delay or flanger. The analog ones have the same exact situation.
Devices with higher sampling rates will generally have reduced latency - as things evolve over time, the latency issue from A/D and D/A conversions will slowly go away.
My favourite 'analog' octave sound comes from a dirty old line 6 m5/9/13- so I'm probably not qualified to post on the subject ha ha.
really is a pedal by pedal (or algorithm by algorithm) basis.
my hesitancy around digital effects changed the moment I wanted / needed a reverb pedal.
really is a pedal by pedal (or algorithm by algorithm) basis.
my hesitancy around digital effects changed the moment I wanted / needed a reverb pedal.
I had a digital modulation pedal, a Southampton Utility Knife. It's a fantastic pedal that does 4 different types of modulation. I wanted to got more from the flanger effect than that pedal would allow, so I got an analog ADA PBF Flanger. I also have a Providence Bass Chorus and a Iron Ether Polytope. The first is analog. The second is digital. Each of these pedals have their own character and feature set. They all sound great. Get the one that works for you and don't worry about it.
When our robotic overlords seize control, you will be in their good graces for nurturing one of their ancestors.
Seriously, whatever sound is good is good.
Seriously, whatever sound is good is good.
Some of the "digital" stuff out now is pretty amazing..
Especially pedals made by source audio!.
I still have and love my original Source audio soundblox multiwave bass distortion.
You're really missing out thinking analog is the only way to go. Both analog and digital are great and sometimes not so good.
Especially pedals made by source audio!.
I still have and love my original Source audio soundblox multiwave bass distortion.
You're really missing out thinking analog is the only way to go. Both analog and digital are great and sometimes not so good.
