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Double Bass Talk to me about Permanents

Snarf

Snarf

Jan 23, 2005
4,153
1,499
Tri-state
#1
So I'm not too satisfied with the Middels on my bass. I find the tension to be a little too stiff, and the bowing scratchy. I've been borrowing a bass all summer that has Obligatos, and I like the tone and tension, but they roll a bit, and life expectancy for the Obligatos is very short.

How do Permanents compare to the Spiros and Obligatos? Looking for something with a fairly long life, and good response to both pizz and arco.

Thanks.
 
#2
My first suggestion is to get your setup looked at (soundpost, fingerboard, bridge). The Spirocores are a higher tension string, so you can get away with lowering the action to make it easier on the left hand. If you are primarily a pizzicato player then I would stick with the Spirocores. If the above doesn't help then you may consider Spirocore "weich" gauge strings. They do bow easier but you will lose a little volume and body to the sound.

If you are bowing a lot then the Permanents will work well for you. They are an good orchestral bass string and an acceptable jazz string. They do not have the long sustain and brightness that the Spirocores have. Their tension is only slightly less than Spirocore mediums, so you probably will not feel a whole lot of difference there.

If you only bow occasionally than the Obligatos are okay, but if you are doing any orchestral work you will be frustrated with them.
Their pizz sound is more "old schoolish". Some people like them, I found them to lack "cajones" on the bottom two strings.

I have tried most every string for jazz and I always end up back with Spirocores. If I do a lot of bowing then I combine them with the Permanents.

Good luck.
 
#3
I play a couple film scoring sessions per month, and for a while they mostly called for pizz, but I'm getting more calls for arco, so the Spirocores really do have to go.

Also, regarding the pizz sound of the Spiros, I tend not to like the edgy attack they have, so a more old school sound would be good for me. The top end is a bit to nasal for my tastes. A large part of that is my bass for sure, but still, the Spiros are an influence on that.

My bass was set up very recently, so it's in good shape. It's a 2007 Upton Hawkes laminate, which isn't a great bass, but I'm making do til I can afford to upgrade.

So given that Perms would probably still be a little stiff for my tastes, is there anything that feels like Obligatos that don't roll and last longer?
 
#5
paulunger said:
Evah Pirazzi's are nice and have a huge, old school pizz sound. The bow decently, too.
Click to expand...

Yup, everybody here knows I'm in love with EPs. However, it would be easy to deem them "too stiff" when they're first installed. They take a good while to play in, after which they have a really nice, buttery feel, with good tactile feedback IMO. They just take a little patience to get to that point. They don't feel much like Obligatos. That's why I didn't mention them.... well, that and everyone collectively thinking "frickin' Marcus and his Evah Pirazzi love fest!" :hiding:

I really look forward to every gig on these Evahs.
 
#7
Does anybody know if the Permanents are still being produced?

The last time I tried to buy them (a couple months ago) Shar, Southweststrings and Lemur were virtually sold out. I was told Pirastro was eliminating the line. Currently, Shar and SWS either aren't carrying them or have only a couple different ones left while Lemur appears to be fully stocked. Also, Pirastro still lists them on their site. =/


Hey Paul,

Don't know if you remember me but we were at IU at the same time.

Have you used Evahs in the orchestra? If so, do you have an opinion as far as volume and playability compared to the bel cantos?

Jeremy
 
#8
Jeremy, I thought that was you. Hope things are going well for you. I think the belcantos are a superior bowing string. I have only tried the Evahs on other's basses, but what other orchestral players tell me is that is that the evah's are limited on what you can do with the bow. The evah's have a killer old school pizz sound and bow decently, but the belcantos bow better, offer more variation and playability.
 
#11
JKincaid said:
Does anybody know if the Permanents are still being produced?

The last time I tried to buy them (a couple months ago) Shar, Southweststrings and Lemur were virtually sold out. I was told Pirastro was eliminating the line. Currently, Shar and SWS either aren't carrying them or have only a couple different ones left while Lemur appears to be fully stocked. Also, Pirastro still lists them on their site. =/
Click to expand...

I immediately asked Pirastro about this and got a very quick reply:

Dear François,

This is indeed a rumor and not true...there are no intensions or plans to discontinue the double bass Permanent strings...they are still available.

Best
Adrian


-----------------------
Pirastro GmbH
Adrian Mueller
Technical Director

[email protected]
http://www.pirastro.com

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pirastro GmbH
Senefelderstrasse 80
D-63069 Offenbach
Germany

Tel +49 - 69 - 84 00 90-0
Fax +49 - 69 - 83 16 63
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...
 
#14
After a long stint of playing (mostly) jazz on Spiros I'm planning to put a more arco-friendly string on my bass and shed my classical chops for a while.

Permanents were always my favourite arco string and, as they say, good enough for jazz. OTOH I've never tried the Belcantos and I'm curious.

I like the stiffness and the resistance of the Perms quite a lot for bowing, and from the descriptions here it seems the BCs feel quite a bit softer (even though their tension stats are very similar).

I've read a big chunk of the BC megathread and couldn't find a direct comparison, so I'll ask it here: has anyone done a comparo of Permanents and Belcantos lately? Any thoughts?
 
#15
I'm doing a little D and G experimentation with Spiro E and A. I have flex deluxe but I think these are a temporary solution.

I need something a little higher tension and a little brighter. Are these the solution or should I try flatchrome steel?
 
#17
Francois Blais said:
I think the Perms will fit better than the FCs. Their tone is fuller than the FCs.
The A&E Permanents are a different story though. They are darker and duller sounding for pizz, at least for me.
Click to expand...

Good to knoW. The arco Spiro medium/flex deluxe is great but the pizz is just a little dark sometimes. Not as bad as evahs but again these are only a few days old so they may get dark which would be bad. I may consider them.

I think of fcs cuz a bassist in Chicago who does a lot of pit work uses fcs with Spiro medium EA.
 
#18
Sam Dingle said:
I need something a little higher tension and a little brighter. Are these the solution or should I try flatchrome steel?
Click to expand...

The FCS would definitely hit the mark on the higher tension, but I was not a fan at all when I tried them. I'd go with the permanents on top personally, definitely brighter than the deluxes but not harsh or twangy. Also, I believe that Edgar Meyer uses a spiro/permanent mix and it seems to work pretty well for him (I realize he could probably make rubber bands sound good).
 
#19
I think it takes a really special bass to make FCS strings work. I have friends with beautiful Italian or English instruments and they didn’t work on most of them. A bit too zingy and the gauge just really isn’t thick enough for orchestral playing. On the basses it does work on, one still must adjust playing technique pretty significantly. But they are one of the few strings that really take everything you can give without losing quality. In solo tuning they are fantastic, if you are looking for a piercing direct sound.

I played Spirocore all across for orchestra and really liked them but wanted something a touch warmer. I’m going to give perms a shot up top because the FCS were just too much. Hopefully those are in the right direction!
 
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#20
If I wanted to use a Spiro Weich E and A would the Perm or FCS D and G mix better in terms of tension and string diameter? (There’s a lot of mension of using various setups mixing strings with Spiro E and A but only in the Mittel gauge...I want to find a good hybrid/arco D and G that will work well when mixed with a Weich bottom).
 

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