TalkCello - Bass Players here learning the Cello

[Mister_GothFrak]

Hii. Glad to see cello talk is not shunned here.

So, I inadvertantly ended up tuning a new short scale bass like a cello. In the process of modifying it further. Will even add a Gizmotron in lieu of a real bow.

I posted about it on my microblog and someone asked if I ever tried tuning in 5ths. I had to look up what that was, saw that cellos were tuned this way. I knew that double bass got its origins from playing cello lines one octave lower.
So, I'm going in the complete opposite direction. Lol.

Once the turner is back from the shoppe, I'll be dropping it in the hole I drilled. Made it a 5-string. F1 - A3.
Oh. Turner is getting a hole drilled into the peg. Bought a second hand set to add an extra string to my MJ-4 and now this but, the hole is way too low -- hidden inside the headstock. Lol

Put some flatwounds on a G&L Fallout - Tribute Series. I got the body + electronics and neck straight from the clearance section of their website. Will put a Kahler vibrato bridge on it later.

So far, it's really cool! I think of is as melodic bass.

 

[fdeck]

I'm still (constantly) wrestling with going sharp in first position.

I'm very good at setting my hand in the right position on the neck, but as I play and my left elbow starts to drop, my hand tends to go with it and I go about a half tone sharp with my pinky.

Proper technique wants all four fingers down if playing a note with the pinky, and this does help with keeping intonation accurate. This works fine for holding a note, but if playing a passage it's not conducive for speed. I do see most cellists playing one finger/one note when playing faster passages.

I've been experimenting with cello position to my body, but haven't noticed an appreciable difference .

I almost have to keep my elbow at shoulder height to keep the pinky from drifting sharp.

This sounds like a situation where you need to have someone take a look. Cello is one of those "get a teacher" instruments, like upright bass. Not because you need to learn some rigidly defined technique, but because a teacher can quickly spot problems and set you on a better path. A couple lessons might be enough. I've never tried this, but have thought about asking a teacher to slot me in when one of their regular students cancels a lesson.

 

[eyvindwa]

I have started my summer vacation, and of course I took my cello with me to the mountain cabin. Good times!

 

[devnulljp]

Just bought a cello to see if I can see if I can deal with tuning in 5ths.
Question: when I try to play higher pitched notes up the fingerboard on the middle 2 strings, the outer strings prevent the bow even reaching the string.
So, if I try to play a note up past the octave on the D or E string, pushing the string down on the fingerboard, the (unfingered) strings on either side are still higher and block the bow.

Is that a setup problem or a technique problem?

 

[djmay]

Just bought a cello to see if I can see if I can deal with tuning in 5ths.
Question: when I try to play higher pitched notes up the fingerboard on the middle 2 strings, the outer strings prevent the bow even reaching the string.
So, if I try to play a note up past the octave on the D or E string, pushing the string down on the fingerboard, the (unfingered) strings on either side are still higher and block the bow.

Is that a setup problem or a technique problem?

You need to bow closer to the bridge as your left hand moves up to higher positions.

 

[RandomKaren]

Just bought a cello to see if I can see if I can deal with tuning in 5ths.
Question: when I try to play higher pitched notes up the fingerboard on the middle 2 strings, the outer strings prevent the bow even reaching the string.
So, if I try to play a note up past the octave on the D or E string, pushing the string down on the fingerboard, the (unfingered) strings on either side are still higher and block the bow.

Is that a setup problem or a technique problem?

Assuming the bridge has a curve that matches the fingerboard and has been properly fitted with the correct height, you may not have tightened your bow enough. But to start I'd stay below the fifth anyway.

 

[devnulljp]

Assuming the bridge has a curve that matches the fingerboard and has been properly fitted with the correct height, you may not have tightened your bow enough. But to start I'd stay below the fifth anyway

It's not the bow -- it's tightened just fine. I just don't see how you can bow the string when it's so much lower than the ones around it.

 

[fdeck]

Just bought a cello to see if I can see if I can deal with tuning in 5ths.
Question: when I try to play higher pitched notes up the fingerboard on the middle 2 strings, the outer strings prevent the bow even reaching the string.
So, if I try to play a note up past the octave on the D or E string, pushing the string down on the fingerboard, the (unfingered) strings on either side are still higher and block the bow.

Is that a setup problem or a technique problem?

Some pics might help.

 

[Root 5]

I have started my summer vacation, and of course I took my cello with me to the mountain cabin. Good times!

Cello is an awesome instrument!

 

[RandomKaren]

It's not the bow -- it's tightened just fine. I just don't see how you can bow the string when it's so much lower than the ones around it.

In this pic I am holding down the D string right near the top of the fingerboard, but you can see there's a couple of inches near the bridge where it's obviously higher than the G and A around it. If yours isn't like this then there's something wrong.

 

[mrvan]

I'M NOT AN EXPERT, but I believe the situation you are describing is caused by having the action too high, so when you press a middle string (D or G) against the fingerboard, it lowers the string so much that you barely have a point where that string is above the adjoining ones. This problem will get more pronounced the further up (in pitch) you go on these two strings.

You should be able to just barely slide a business card between the strings and fingerboard at the nut and at the end of the fingerboard, the strings should be somewhere around 6-10 mm above the board. If this isn't the case, then you probably want to make some adjustments to the instrument.

 

[fdeck]

It's got to be a setup problem, or a structural issue.

There have been reports on the DB side of super-low-end basses that come from the factory and collapse under full string tension. I'm not sure if that's possible with a cello. Between bass and cello, I've rarely seen a cello in the condition that many basses seem to be in.

 

[devnulljp]

Goddamnit, why do cellos have the same crappy tuners they've been using for hundreds of years? Haven't they seen any of the advances in materials and design since the 17th century? How the hell do you tune the thing? Maybe mine is just crap (true, it is a cheap one) but the pegs won't stay put. And I just snapped another A string tryingto tune it.
AAAARGH, I Just about give up.
Has anyone tried putting upright bass tuners on a cello?

 

[RandomKaren]

Goddamnit, why do cellos have the same crappy tuners they've been using for hundreds of years? Haven't they seen any of the advances in materials and design since the 17th century? How the hell do you tune the thing? Maybe mine is just crap (true, it is a cheap one) but the pegs won't stay put. And I just snapped another A string tryingto tune it.
AAAARGH, I Just about give up.
Has anyone tried putting upright bass tuners on a cello?

You can get geared cello tuners, not sure if they are difficult to fit. But if ordinary pegs are difficult maybe they just need some peg compound to make them easier, plus of course you use the fine tuners on the tailpiece.

 

[bassicmike]

You can get geared cello tuners, not sure if they are difficult to fit. But if ordinary pegs are difficult maybe they just need some peg compound to make them easier, plus of course you use the fine tuners on the tailpiece.

Tell me more about geared cello tuners!

 

[devnulljp]

You can get geared cello tuners, not sure if they are difficult to fit. But if ordinary pegs are difficult maybe they just need some peg compound to make them easier, plus of course you use the fine tuners on the tailpiece.

I'm just having trouble getting the thing to stay close enought to in tune that I can use the fine tuners. The pegs slip, the strings slip, I'm sure there's a technique to it, but it seems stupid to have nothing but a bit of friction on a wooden peg holding strings under tension in place.
OTOH, I did manage to get quite a nice noise out of it, but I don't know if I've got the patience to put up with the shortcomings of the instrument itself. Sticking to these designs seems like peer pressure from dead people.

 

[RandomKaren]

I'm just having trouble getting the thing to stay close enought to in tune that I can use the fine tuners. The pegs slip, the strings slip, I'm sure there's a technique to it, but it seems stupid to have nothing but a bit of friction on a wooden peg holding strings under tension in place.
OTOH, I did manage to get quite a nice noise out of it, but I don't know if I've got the patience to put up with the shortcomings of the instrument itself. Sticking to these designs seems like peer pressure from dead people.

If you're not used to those tuning pegs they can be a pita. These are on UK eBay but I'm sure they're available in the US as well: Cello geared tuners

 

[fdeck]

Perfection Planetary Geared Cello Peg Set

Knilling Perfection Planetary Geared Pegs offer a modern, reliable tuning solution for violin, viola, and cello. Designed with a built-in 4:1 gear reduction, they provide smooth, precise tuning—eliminating slipping and the need for traditional fine tuners. The internal planetary gear system...

fiddlershop.com

A relative has these pegs on his violin and viola -- he's an accomplished player with pro-quality instruments.

Installation might require a luthier, don't know.

 

[bassicmike]

I saw those. Interesting.

My cello is a cheap beginners instrument - probably not worth the investment until (or if) I get something decent.

 

[fdeck]

I saw those. Interesting.

My cello is a cheap beginners instrument - probably not worth the investment until (or if) I get something decent.

Do you at least have fine tuners on the tailpiece? A lot of beginners only use the pegs when they run out of travel on the fine tuners. Then they move the fine tuners to the middle of their travel, get close with the pegs, and continue with the fine tuners.