TapeWound Club~Anyone?

[Adagietto]

Thats a good point but the funny thing is if you do the math guitar strings end up costing more for most people because you need to change them more often. When I was playing a lot of guitar I'd change the strings at least 4 times a year(some people change them more often), but on bass I dont remember changing the strings ever(I know some roundwound players like to change them often though) unless I wanted to try different ones....Even more so with flats, and I'm guessing the tapes are also change when they break type of thing.

A few years ago I determined that guitar strings last me a little over thirty hours. At that point, bass strings are still breaking in. However, before I settled on guitar strings, both electric and acoustic, I went through dozens of sets to find what worked for me and each of my guitars. Due to the cost and break in time, that doesn't seem so practical for bass.

So yeah. Once strings are sorted, bass strings are cheaper than guitar strings over the longer term — at least for me.

 

[mrperkolator]

Information about tapewounds is also all over the place. Some say black is brighter, others say white is. Some say black is smoother, others say white is. Some say they had to their nut, others say they didn't. Some say they buzz, others say they don't.

I can tell you my experiences. I had labella black on a 35" 5 string. I did not widen the nut, but it's possible I should have. It was looked over by a luthier, who fixed a few frets for me, and he liked the strings too. So for that one I didn't. But I bought it used with rounds on it, but it could have been widened before. That bass sounded excellent, but it was too heavy so I sold it. I put a set of white tapes on my daughters p bass, but this time bought light gauge so I wouldn't have to worry about the nut. It sounds great, but the tension is pretty low and takes some getting used to. At the time I emailed labella, and I got this order for brightness from labella in my email:

760N - Black Tape (mellowest)
760C - Copper White
760T - White Tape (brightest)

I'm not sure where the 760G (Gold white) land except for brighter than the coppers. The 760G were not mentioned in my email. I'm not sure how they compare to the 760T. The customer service rep did say that the difference in tone between the 3 flavors of white tape (760C, 760T, 760G) was "subtle." The whites on my daughter's bass sound a lot like roundwounds to me - but without the finger noise. I like a little more mellow, so my taste is probably either the 760N or 760C.

As for the nut and gauges.... that's more a physics thing. The differences in attributes between light gauge and heavy gauge are similar to other strings. I'd recommend getting the regular gauge, and if you like them, have your nut filed if you are out of tune (should show up sharp in the first couple frets if nut is too high). If you like the strings you will likely keep them for years. They don't really seem to wear.

Also, you may need to pay close attention when looking at brands. La Bella's tapes are roundwound with nylon tape wrapping. I cant recall which brand, but one of them uses flats for the E and A strings, and rounds for the D, G strings under the nylon. Some people claim to be able to hear that. I haven't used that brand, so I'm not sure. I can say that a flatwound string with nylon over it will be quite a bit more mellow than a roundwound string with nylon over it.

Hope this helps. I'm trying not to color anything with my opinion, as my ears may be different. @LowEndLobster threw some 760N black tapes on an AFR Affirma and gave me permanent GAS for that bass. He compares the black tapes to rounds I believe in that video. I will say, the Rob Allen fretless basses use Labella Black Tapes as their stock string. That is an awesome boutique bass.

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

I can tell you my experiences. I had labella black on a 35" 5 string. I did not widen the nut, but it's possible I should have. It was looked over by a luthier, who fixed a few frets for me, and he liked the strings too. So for that one I didn't. But I bought it used with rounds on it, but it could have been widened before. That bass sounded excellent, but it was too heavy so I sold it. I put a set of white tapes on my daughters p bass, but this time bought light gauge so I wouldn't have to worry about the nut. It sounds great, but the tension is pretty low and takes some getting used to. At the time I emailed labella, and I got this order for brightness from labella in my email:

760N - Black Tape (mellowest)
760C - Copper White
760T - White Tape (brightest)

I'm not sure where the 760G (Gold white) land except for brighter than the coppers. The 760G were not mentioned in my email. I'm not sure how they compare to the 760T. The customer service rep did say that the difference in tone between the 3 flavors of white tape (760C, 760T, 760G) was "subtle." The whites on my daughter's bass sound a lot like roundwounds to me - but without the finger noise. I like a little more mellow, so my taste is probably either the 760N or 760C.

As for the nut and gauges.... that's more a physics thing. The differences in attributes between light gauge and heavy gauge are similar to other strings. I'd recommend getting the regular gauge, and if you like them, have your nut filed if you are out of tune (should show up sharp in the first couple frets if nut is too high). If you like the strings you will likely keep them for years. They don't really seem to wear.

Also, you may need to pay close attention when looking at brands. La Bella's tapes are roundwound with nylon tape wrapping. I cant recall which brand, but one of them uses flats for the E and A strings, and rounds for the D, G strings under the nylon. Some people claim to be able to hear that. I haven't used that brand, so I'm not sure. I can say that a flatwound string with nylon over it will be quite a bit more mellow than a roundwound string with nylon over it.

Hope this helps. I'm trying not to color anything with my opinion, as my ears may be different. @LowEndLobster threw some 760N black tapes on an AFR Affirma and gave me permanent GAS for that bass. He compares the black tapes to rounds I believe in that video. I will say, the Rob Allen fretless basses use Labella Black Tapes as their stock string. That is an awesome boutique bass.

Thanks. That was very helpful. Two more questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Did you find they were noisy/buzzy? I've heard some say they were since your hands never actually touch the metal of the string.

And: how would you describe them tone wise (esp. the black nylon)? It's hard to tell from videos and here again, there doesn't seem to be a consensus... On their bright-to-mellow scale, GHS says theirs are brighter than even their brite flats, yet D'Addario says theirs are mellower than their flats...

 

[GWGuitar]

Thanks. That was very helpful. Two more questions, if you don't mind me asking.

Did you find they were noisy/buzzy? I've heard some say they were since your hands never actually touch the metal of the string.

And: how would you describe them tone wise (esp. the black nylon)? It's hard to tell from videos and here again, there doesn't seem to be a consensus... On their bright-to-mellow scale, GHS says theirs are brighter than even their brite flats, yet D'Addario says theirs are mellower than their flats...

I made this YT short just to give folks a comparison of the tone differences. There’s a longer one that compares rounds and tapes. This one is just a minute long, but it’s enough to get a “taste” of rounds, tapes, and flats.



I use tapes exclusively on my fretless viola bass, and I started using them on my Epi viola. I have since moved on to using flats on the Epi, mainly for string tension.

 

[mrperkolator]

Did you find they were noisy/buzzy? I've heard some say they were since your hands never actually touch the metal of the string.

And: how would you describe them tone wise (esp. the black nylon)? It's hard to tell from videos and here again, there doesn't seem to be a consensus... On their bright-to-mellow scale, GHS says theirs are brighter than even their brite flats, yet D'Addario says theirs are mellower than their flats...

So question 1.... it depends. I played black tapes on a BTB. Dual humbuckers and a preamp made it quiet already. If there's a bad job done from grounding, then yes having tapes keeps you from being able to use your fingers as part of the ground circuit. Personally I hate hum, so I'd ensure a good shielding anyway. For me this wouldn't be an issue. This is mostly a problem for single coils. Splits (p pickups) and humbuckers are fairly quiet by design.

The La Bella Black nylons seemed in between flats and rounds. Best description I can give is nicely aged rounds. Mellow, but more definition than flats tend to have. That's just my experience though. Your question 2 depends on the manufacturer. That's why I mentioned that some tapewounds are flats with nylon outer wrapping, and others are rounds with outer wrapping. D'Addario may be one of the brands that uses flats, then wraps the flats in black nylon.

Unfortunately to prevent lots of money going out our pockets, many of us have become amateur scientists as it relates to strings.... I over-analyze string construction quite a bit. The following article is a fairly good one explaining strings. It doesn't mention tapewounds much. But, if you know that La Bella's are roundwounds with an outer layer of nylon tape, you can extrapolate a bit on how it will sound compared to a flatwound string with an outer layer of nylon tape. Each manufacturer has their own secret sauce for their tapeswounds. There are some very loyal fans of each brand out there. I happened to just try La Bella's first, and love their quality.

Reverb: How to choose bass strings

 

[winegamd]

On an active bass where the instrument has its own isolated ground plane, you should not have any buzz. On a poorly shielded passive instrument, buzz is possible.

My favorites right now are the 760C-CB. I just had a 760G-CB set on, but like the midrange of the Copper. They also have an upper mid character that is similar to the zing of a regular round wound, but different. Their mids are very woody and organic. I find they have probably just as much high end as the 760G, but because of the increased mids, they present as subdued.

The 760G are a bit more scooped through the mids so come across as brighter. They are also a stiffer string and have a feel like a flat but still have a bright overtone filled tone like a round. They definitely have a fuller low mid and upper bass region and have smooth crystal-like airy top end.

The 760T are pretty much a stainless string with less (more controlled,maybe) topend and no fret noise. They are also a lot more flexible than the other white nylon offerings. The standard tension .060-.115 feels like a round core .040-.095 set as far as flexibility.

All of the White Nylon tensions are the same across the types for the same guage.

I have had my 769G set for two years and the 760C set for one. They still sound like new. I used the standard Whites for about 8 months before I decided I didn't like them as much as the others.

 

[winegamd]

One thing to remember when picking guage for nylon strings is the nylon wrap does not contribute to the tension of the string like a wire wrap. The Black Nylon tape is .010 thick, so each guage is like a string .020 smaller for tension. The White nylon is only .005 thick, so the tension would be that of a similar string construction .010 smaller.

The thickness of the nylon also plays a part in damping the overtones of the underlying construction, so the black nylon with be darker/more mellow for the same underlying string construction than the white.

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

You guys, along with Bubby Lewis's playing and tone, convinced me to try tapes, so I went and bought a set of light La Bella 760T (white) this morning.

What the actual ?! I mean, I didn't have high expectations -- there must be a reason why rounds and flats are widely more popular than tapes -- but after spending probably over $1,000 on trying different strings over the last couple of years, I think I finally found my strings. I don't understand how tapes aren't more popular... They are literally the best of both worlds. They sound similar to rounds (at least the La Bella) and are smoother than flats.

I still have to try them with the band, but so far, I haven't been this impressed with a string since ... probably ever??

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

There was no buzzing/humming this morning at my place, but there is now at my partner's.

The only difference with regards to the setup is that I was going through a Broughton P15 preamp before the interface at my place.

Bass > 1/4 inch > Preamp > XLR via the balanced out > Interface.

Could it be that the preamp - XLR/balanced out - ground lift was grounding/shielding the thing? Something else?

The bass is a Fender Custom Shop '64 Jazz. I don't know if it's shielded or not?

 

[Loring]

Could be or could be the other location doesn’t have a proper grounded circuit or has something else on the same circuit that causes noise (fluorescent lamps refrigerator compressor etc). Try touching your bridge to see if it goes away…

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

Could be or could be the other location doesn’t have a proper grounded circuit or has something else on the same circuit that causes noise (fluorescent lamps refrigerator compressor etc). Try touching your bridge to see if it goes away…

Yeah, the buzzing/humming goes away whenever I touch any metal (tuners, bridge, etc.). Her place is much older than mine, and I know she has electrical issues with the place. An electrician once told her to avoid plugging too many things in the outlets and to avoid one of them altogether...

 

[Loring]

Yeah, the buzzing/humming goes away whenever I touch any metal (tuners, bridge, etc.). Her place is much older than mine, and I know she has electrical issues with the place. An electrician once told her to avoid plugging too many things in the outlets and to avoid one of them altogether...

if that’s the case … shielding is your friend. There is a really good thread on here for how to do it properly. Essentially you want all cavities covered in copper tape or a conductive paint and everything properly grounded including the tape/paint. You can get the tape cheap on Amazon - guitar shops or stewmack are too much $$.

your bridge ground may need to be checked also. It takes maybe an hour altogether.

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

if that’s the case … shielding is your friend. There is a really good thread on here for how to do it properly. Essentially you want all cavities covered in copper tape or a conductive paint and everything properly grounded including the tape/paint. You can get the tape cheap on Amazon - guitar shops or stewmack are too much $$.

your bridge ground may need to be checked also. It takes maybe an hour altogether.

... How is a $6k bass not properly shielded Would you happen to know if this would be covered under warranty? I'm really bad with tools.

Edit: tried it again at home. It’s definitely buzzing. Don’t know how I missed that…

 

[Loring]

Jazz basses are known for that…

there are a number of threads that can help you out (that’s how I learned about it). Here is a recent one but the one I originally found had a more in depth tutorial.

at any rate this should get you started…

Jazz bass shielding question

 

[winegamd]

If you are soloing a pickup, and there is a lot of EMF from her apartment, shielding might not even totally alleviate the hum. See if it goes away with the pickups balanced.

Aero makes a cable that you can use to get rid of the hum as well if you don't want to mess with shielding.

 

[Loring]

If you are soloing a pickup, and there is a lot of EMF from her apartment, shielding might not even totally alleviate the hum. See if it goes away with the pickups balanced.

Aero makes a cable that you can use to get rid of the hum as well if you don't want to mess with shielding.

That cable essentially uses you as a constant ground by putting a ground lead to your waistband (end looks like a coin or a small watch battery).

 

[mrperkolator]

... How is a $6k bass not properly shielded Would you happen to know if this would be covered under warranty?

I'd bet the 64 fender jazz has old style pickups. vintage pickups are not humcanceling at all. You have to use both pickups I believe. I'm no expert on fender jazz. When I started bass I didn't want to play on what everyone else was using, and I hated the hum. I didn't know you could fix it.... so I thought I hated the jazz bass. (I'd consider one now).

Definitely read up on here. There will be some answers somewhere on TB.

Edit: Also mess with your setup. There should be a ground lift in there for xlr. try toggling the ground lift button.

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

If you are soloing a pickup, and there is a lot of EMF from her apartment, shielding might not even totally alleviate the hum. See if it goes away with the pickups balanced.

Aero makes a cable that you can use to get rid of the hum as well if you don't want to mess with shielding.

I'd bet the 64 fender jazz has old style pickups. vintage pickups are not humcanceling at all. You have to use both pickups I believe. I'm no expert on fender jazz. When I started bass I didn't want to play on what everyone else was using, and I hated the hum. I didn't know you could fix it.... so I thought I hated the jazz bass. (I'd consider one now).

Definitely read up on here. There will be some answers somewhere on TB.

Edit: Also mess with your setup. There should be a ground lift in there for xlr. try toggling the ground lift button.

I almost always play with both pick ups full on, so it isn’t that.

As much as I love the tapes, I don’t think I love them enough to have to use a $165 CAD cable exclusively…

The ground switch didn’t do anything

 

[JazzyJacuzzi]

In the event that I can’t make them work, does anyone know of a similar string tension and sound wise?

 

[Loring]

Closest you’ll get for both is TI Jazz flats. Low tension and pretty smooth. One of the brightest sounding flats out there and very flexible/ low tension

if you prefer rounds - I really like dr pure blues and ghs round core boomers. I haven’t tried TI jazz rounds but hear the are excellent and also very low tension/flexible.