D
Deleted member 165050
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If you are pushing a 350 watt speaker with a 500 watt amp, it's fairly quickly going to become silent.
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TC Electronic's biggest mistake on BG250 combos
- Thread starter deff
- Start date
If you are pushing a 350 watt speaker with a 500 watt amp, it's fairly quickly going to become silent.
True that.!
What I meant to say was you are only going to get so much sound out of one speaker regardless of how many watts you have.
If you're pushing it with all 500W, maybe, but you can turn it down. But you'd need to know what level of signal is going in, effect of the EQ, and the curve of the master (I have the older Warwick profets with linear masters) and integrate over the input signal' s waveform to know how much of the 500W is being used. If the speaker stops working, quite possibly more than 350W.
To be fair, if you integrate over the input waveform, then even if you set the input sensitivity, EQ and master to deliver 350W RMS with a 500W amp with a reference 1kHz signal then a square wave is going to be 1.4 times that, which is 490W and the 500W amp could still deliver it. Distortion is bad mmkay.
Plus peaks could theoretically slam the cone off the rails, so to speak, although modern speakers don't seem to have that happen so much.
BG250-208 has de option to add an extra cab.(8 ohm) That's why I bought it. Perfect for practicing and rehearsels. Portable.(small and only 12kg)
I have the 250 115 and the 250 210
I like the sound of 2 10's and 1 15 together.
That being said I have to connect them with an aby box and would have preferred just being able to plug in and extension cabinet to one or the other
(The output level from the DI out and headphone out both were to low to connect to the input of the second amp)
Perhaps I should have gotten the 208 and added a 1 15 extension cabinet.
I like the sound of 2 10's and 1 15 together.
That being said I have to connect them with an aby box and would have preferred just being able to plug in and extension cabinet to one or the other
(The output level from the DI out and headphone out both were to low to connect to the input of the second amp)
Perhaps I should have gotten the 208 and added a 1 15 extension cabinet.
With that kind of stage volume I would not trust any budget combo. I own a TC BG250-208 and honestly, I've found it seriously underpowered. I play weekly in church with 2 - 3 acoustic guitars, a flute and a small synth that runs off its built-in speakers (I know, ... it's a poor church) with no PA support whatsoever. In that setting I have to crank the volume up halfway (to noon) to appropriately hear myself. I stand next to the amp which is on the floor but tilted up toward me. If I flip the bass and the amp input to active (I like to play it passive usually) I can get the volume down to maybe 10 o'clock but again, I'm up 'against' unamplified acoustic instruments and singing voices.
I also occasionally play with an oldies band where I've previously been using an ancient Peavey Basic 60 (50 W or so) on a combo stand at about waist level. At times I'd had to push it but I'd always heard myself well. In the same setting the TC can't make itself heard. I've recently bought a TC 12" extension cabinet (RS112) that allows me to get full power from the combo but I can stand next to the setup with the volume cranked to the max in my living room and the level is far from painful. And no, I don't have the active/passive switch in the incorrect position. I know amp and speaker W ratings do not translate to volume directly but 50 vs 250 (with the extension cab) should not be in the same league. With these setups they are and the 50 W Peavey may even come out on top.
I also occasionally play with an oldies band where I've previously been using an ancient Peavey Basic 60 (50 W or so) on a combo stand at about waist level. At times I'd had to push it but I'd always heard myself well. In the same setting the TC can't make itself heard. I've recently bought a TC 12" extension cabinet (RS112) that allows me to get full power from the combo but I can stand next to the setup with the volume cranked to the max in my living room and the level is far from painful. And no, I don't have the active/passive switch in the incorrect position. I know amp and speaker W ratings do not translate to volume directly but 50 vs 250 (with the extension cab) should not be in the same league. With these setups they are and the 50 W Peavey may even come out on top.
Pretty sure the manufacturers don't put speaker out jacks on amateur/consumer/ even pro-sumer level combos because the average player doesn't understand impedance and tends to blow amps up via gross mismatches. I see labels on the back of amps explaining the impedance (This jack: 2x16 ohm or 1x8 ohm, this jack 2x8 ohm or 1x4 ohm) and people are still confused.
I'm not very combo friendly, but have a BG250 head and really like it. It gets a variety of great tones for my 80s cover band and I use it at home all the time. It is also the best back up head for everything else since it and the footswitch packs into my cable bag. Use my phone to zap in the needed effects for the gig and go.
This. It's pretty easy to fix small problems if they arise. Sure, TC should/could address this, but we're not talking about switching out jacks and pots to overcome a design flaw, just putting a pack of sugar under the restaurant's uneven foot of the table...
Yes. This amp is the odd one out in the combo line. It's essentially the BG250 head mounted in a 2x8" cabinet. Just unplug the cab from the head and plug your other amp in via the extension jack. I'm pretty sure the 2x8" cab is 8 ohms.
This is less true than it sounds... You can rather destroy a 350 watt speaker with a 50 watt amp than with a 500 watt amp.
If you drive a speaker with more clean(!) power than it can handle you can hear it and lower the volume. The speaker will survive it in most cases. But if you max out an amplifier (like in my example the 50 watt amp) it will produce direct current and this can melt and destroy the speaker in seconds even if it has 2000 watt.
This might be less relevant today cause most amps and some speakers have protection circuits that detect direct current and shut the amp or the speaker-outs down and even older ones have fuses. But it isn't funny when it happens in the midst of a gig.
D
Deleted member 165050
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Underpowering is not a thing.
And the OP is in denial that he needs a bigger rig. Mid powered combos are not going to cut it. He definitely needs the equivalent of 4 10s and about 500 watts or so. No need to spend a ton of money. For 200-500 if you're smart and persistent, you can get a high quality great sounding loud rig. It might not be the newest most lightweight thing out there.
But for instance I have a 500w Trace head and a 500w Genz 4x10 that together I think I have about $425 in on paper. BUT if you consider the Hartke setup they replaced, that I ended up making some money on (not that hard if you're consistent with purchases), I have about $50in the Genz/Trace rig at this point. That's like behringer/seismic prices but for killer US/UK made stuff that's bulletproof. Made possible by initially realizing that although the hartke stuff is not generally "cool" some of it is in fact pretty high quality, well built, and at least somewhat desired and this particular deal was way underpriced. I didn't haggle with the guy, just gave him his asking price. But I sold the head and cab at prices that were more reflective of their actual inherent value (still super cheap in relative terms).
Honestly my area is not even that great for deals in general, but if you just keep an eye out all the time, and jump on good deals when they happen, it's entirely possible to have great stuff for cheap. It also helps if you dont get obsessed with one specific model or brand that you want and are open to other options. I didn't specifically want the hartke setup, but it filled a need I had at the time until I could get what I was really looking for. If I had a $10k slush and a big house to put stuff, I could probably damn near make a living at this, or at least be kept in massive amounts of great gear for not a huge net outlay.
And the OP is in denial that he needs a bigger rig. Mid powered combos are not going to cut it. He definitely needs the equivalent of 4 10s and about 500 watts or so. No need to spend a ton of money. For 200-500 if you're smart and persistent, you can get a high quality great sounding loud rig. It might not be the newest most lightweight thing out there.
But for instance I have a 500w Trace head and a 500w Genz 4x10 that together I think I have about $425 in on paper. BUT if you consider the Hartke setup they replaced, that I ended up making some money on (not that hard if you're consistent with purchases), I have about $50in the Genz/Trace rig at this point. That's like behringer/seismic prices but for killer US/UK made stuff that's bulletproof. Made possible by initially realizing that although the hartke stuff is not generally "cool" some of it is in fact pretty high quality, well built, and at least somewhat desired and this particular deal was way underpriced. I didn't haggle with the guy, just gave him his asking price. But I sold the head and cab at prices that were more reflective of their actual inherent value (still super cheap in relative terms).
Honestly my area is not even that great for deals in general, but if you just keep an eye out all the time, and jump on good deals when they happen, it's entirely possible to have great stuff for cheap. It also helps if you dont get obsessed with one specific model or brand that you want and are open to other options. I didn't specifically want the hartke setup, but it filled a need I had at the time until I could get what I was really looking for. If I had a $10k slush and a big house to put stuff, I could probably damn near make a living at this, or at least be kept in massive amounts of great gear for not a huge net outlay.
Um... have you tried getting that speakon off without unbolting the head? If you've figured out a way to get it out of that cavity, I'd like to know how you did it without bending the plug. The speakers in that combo just suck. They really picked lousy speakers for that combo.
Plugging in an external cab makes it more usable. Mine developed a fault after the warranty expired and has permanent distortion under any signal - requires a board swap to fix.
Plugging in an external cab makes it more usable. Mine developed a fault after the warranty expired and has permanent distortion under any signal - requires a board swap to fix.
Kinda crazy thought - turn the amp around. Let the length of the sound waves work for you. Non-directional bass, right?
Buy two BG250s. The entire amp isn't much more money than a 1x15 or 2x10 extension cab would be.
Gotta think outside the "why doesn't it" box sometimes.
I'll add that I've been using a BG250 for about 5-6 years for small to medium sized club gigs and it's been flawless for me. And this includes several road trips of up to 1500 miles round trip in the back of a pickup hauling gear. No issues at all.
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