Exactly. I saw Wishbone Ash last year at a large venue and they play with a pair of 1x12 combos in stereo. Best sounding guitars you'll ever hear. Mic'em and out the PA they go.::shakes head:: What planet are all these idiot guitarists from that they think they need a full stack for bar gigs?
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TC Electronic's biggest mistake on BG250 combos
- Thread starter deff
- Start date
I moonlight as a bouncer at a music venue on the weekends, and the bands that sound best play combos or low-watt heads. We had a heavy funk band come through, and the bassist and guitarist both played Orange amps. The guitarist played a 1x12, and the bassist had a Terror Bass head into a 2x12. They sounded *phenomenal.*
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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Ha, 350 watts. Pssh. You know a 350 watt speaker can only really push about 90 or so comfortably. With frequency and playing spikes. More speakers, more 90s
I have a BG-250-210 and like it a lot. One of my friends has one and I was so impressed with his that I bought one. It is quite light for a 210 combo and sounds really good.
If I need to move more air I will take a head and separate cabs. My pair of Aguilar GS 210's with either my AG 700 or my Shuttlemax 9.2 driving them is as loud as I need to get. I play jazz mostly and almost never have to compete with loud guitars.
I have only recently purchased my TC combo and have had no trouble with it. We'll see how it does in the long run.
If I need to move more air I will take a head and separate cabs. My pair of Aguilar GS 210's with either my AG 700 or my Shuttlemax 9.2 driving them is as loud as I need to get. I play jazz mostly and almost never have to compete with loud guitars.
I have only recently purchased my TC combo and have had no trouble with it. We'll see how it does in the long run.
I tried the T.C. BG 250 1-15, 2-10, and the 1-12 at my local Guitar Sphincter.
They all had some unacceptable panel vibration, the 15 being the least damaged- by- wankers demo they had. A friend bought the 250- 1-15. I sat in on a gig he was doing, and it sounded very good. He returned it a week later to get the new TC 800 head. He loves it, and the tone print feature.
At the $350.00 price point, for a single unit combo, the T.C.'s are a good value, if they can hold together. I tried the new 'lightweight' Peavey Max 250 1-15 combo a couple of weeks ago. I like the way it looks. A nicer, more attractive design than their products to date. Powerful, loud, and I was able to get a sound comparable, or a bit more to my liking than the T.C. Didn't buy it. Won't consider it, either. Why? Because, every time I played Ab on the 'E' string, the metal speaker grille vibrated so loudly, it was heard over the note. A total deal breaking, stupid design flaw. So- how hard would it be, to put an insulated cross brace on the front grille? It would be another buck's worth of metal, and a fast production install. I still think the wildly popular Rumble 200, and 500 are King of the working man/ woman's bass combos. I haven't tried the GK's, but the Rumbles will work with an extension cab. A big plus. When adjusted correctly- they'll fill a room with bass, and weigh a lot less than the combos of the past. I have tried a Rumble 200 with a GK 1-15 under it, and it was pretty amazing.
I stopped being hot on buying a new combo that will sit unused like the last one I had. I have a Carvin BX 500 head, and a Genz Shuttle 9.0- Small, light, powerful amps- and all I do- is pick the light weight neo cab (1-12) (2-10) (1-15) (1-15 folded horn) I need for the room/band/ gig/ volume, and I am not wishing I'd brought this light modular gear in the first place.
The other issue- most of the combos today, are made in China, Vietnam, Indonesia..and.. well, I like American made products. Especially on gigs where I don't want something failing because of a 2 dollar capacitor. Yes, I've had that happen.
They all had some unacceptable panel vibration, the 15 being the least damaged- by- wankers demo they had. A friend bought the 250- 1-15. I sat in on a gig he was doing, and it sounded very good. He returned it a week later to get the new TC 800 head. He loves it, and the tone print feature.
At the $350.00 price point, for a single unit combo, the T.C.'s are a good value, if they can hold together. I tried the new 'lightweight' Peavey Max 250 1-15 combo a couple of weeks ago. I like the way it looks. A nicer, more attractive design than their products to date. Powerful, loud, and I was able to get a sound comparable, or a bit more to my liking than the T.C. Didn't buy it. Won't consider it, either. Why? Because, every time I played Ab on the 'E' string, the metal speaker grille vibrated so loudly, it was heard over the note. A total deal breaking, stupid design flaw. So- how hard would it be, to put an insulated cross brace on the front grille? It would be another buck's worth of metal, and a fast production install. I still think the wildly popular Rumble 200, and 500 are King of the working man/ woman's bass combos. I haven't tried the GK's, but the Rumbles will work with an extension cab. A big plus. When adjusted correctly- they'll fill a room with bass, and weigh a lot less than the combos of the past. I have tried a Rumble 200 with a GK 1-15 under it, and it was pretty amazing.
I stopped being hot on buying a new combo that will sit unused like the last one I had. I have a Carvin BX 500 head, and a Genz Shuttle 9.0- Small, light, powerful amps- and all I do- is pick the light weight neo cab (1-12) (2-10) (1-15) (1-15 folded horn) I need for the room/band/ gig/ volume, and I am not wishing I'd brought this light modular gear in the first place.
The other issue- most of the combos today, are made in China, Vietnam, Indonesia..and.. well, I like American made products. Especially on gigs where I don't want something failing because of a 2 dollar capacitor. Yes, I've had that happen.
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If the configuration of the TC Electonics combo doesn't get what you're happy with then move on to something else. Plenty of other Combo Amp mfg offer extension cab functionality if that's important to you.
Personally with @JimChjones - when I use a combo it's because I want light small and compact: IE one trip from the car to the gig, amp in one hand, bass, cables & ipad in the mono bag on my back. Leaves me one hand for coffee !
When I need power Its a bigger gig so then it doesn't matter as much, and I can use more or less drivers & a separate head as needed for the situation.
Personally with @JimChjones - when I use a combo it's because I want light small and compact: IE one trip from the car to the gig, amp in one hand, bass, cables & ipad in the mono bag on my back. Leaves me one hand for coffee !
When I need power Its a bigger gig so then it doesn't matter as much, and I can use more or less drivers & a separate head as needed for the situation.
okcrum
in your chest
Just some random general thoughts on rereading this thread...
I don't understand some of the "one trip" reasoning. I'm trying to remember the last time I actually had to manhandle (is that word still allowed in 2018?
) gear any distance from vehicle to venue stage. Ah, yes, it was 3-1/2 years ago, and I brought a 1 cu. ft. Studio 110 and a bass bag on my back, because no cars allowed - downtown was closed for the Prescott Rodeo. Luckily the venue had FOH, but also a lot of stairs - a relative rarity out here. I pack a lot of gear on a cart if necessary and that's my one trip. No need for stuff I can walk a mile with as long as my cart wheels are big and round to make it through the tall grass and gravel, and over curbs without spilling stuff. ADA ramps help a lot too.
Not every venue has FOH support or house backlines. Maybe they do in the Big City, but not out here in flyover country. We even have elevators in the bigger venues where needed, mostly. So assuming tiny rigs for that reason depends on location. Sometimes you actually have to carry the room. Or the park. Sometimes you have the reimagination of young Jimmy Page on guitar, to boot. Or worse, a guitarist with massive hearing loss, to whom any sane SPL is inaudible. Earplugs mandatory in that case.
It's much closer to reality to bet that a 300W thermal-rated driver will start to break up around 150W, not 75, unless they're ancient, er, vintage, or use those cheapass drivers (no brand names mentioned), or are in a terribly mistuned cabinet. Your ears, if cleaned regularly, will tell you when enough is enough, and you need more cones.
Some players actually are broke enough - BTDT - that they have to make do with gear on hand that they can afford, until one band or another makes them a little extra money. Not many of us are MacGyver enough to be able to assemble a bitchin' science fair project rig out of some phone wire and a couple of toy train transformers. Thus the oft maligned, much abused, cockroach-outlasting Peavey rig, or whatever good deal (maybe even a TC) gets ya to the next gig. Maybe even something with (shudder) mismatched drivers.
Just MO, YMMV, usual disclaimers apply, void where prohibited.
I don't understand some of the "one trip" reasoning. I'm trying to remember the last time I actually had to manhandle (is that word still allowed in 2018?
) gear any distance from vehicle to venue stage. Ah, yes, it was 3-1/2 years ago, and I brought a 1 cu. ft. Studio 110 and a bass bag on my back, because no cars allowed - downtown was closed for the Prescott Rodeo. Luckily the venue had FOH, but also a lot of stairs - a relative rarity out here. I pack a lot of gear on a cart if necessary and that's my one trip. No need for stuff I can walk a mile with as long as my cart wheels are big and round to make it through the tall grass and gravel, and over curbs without spilling stuff. ADA ramps help a lot too.Not every venue has FOH support or house backlines. Maybe they do in the Big City, but not out here in flyover country. We even have elevators in the bigger venues where needed, mostly. So assuming tiny rigs for that reason depends on location. Sometimes you actually have to carry the room. Or the park. Sometimes you have the reimagination of young Jimmy Page on guitar, to boot. Or worse, a guitarist with massive hearing loss, to whom any sane SPL is inaudible. Earplugs mandatory in that case.
It's much closer to reality to bet that a 300W thermal-rated driver will start to break up around 150W, not 75, unless they're ancient, er, vintage, or use those cheapass drivers (no brand names mentioned), or are in a terribly mistuned cabinet. Your ears, if cleaned regularly, will tell you when enough is enough, and you need more cones.
Some players actually are broke enough - BTDT - that they have to make do with gear on hand that they can afford, until one band or another makes them a little extra money. Not many of us are MacGyver enough to be able to assemble a bitchin' science fair project rig out of some phone wire and a couple of toy train transformers. Thus the oft maligned, much abused, cockroach-outlasting Peavey rig, or whatever good deal (maybe even a TC) gets ya to the next gig. Maybe even something with (shudder) mismatched drivers.
Just MO, YMMV, usual disclaimers apply, void where prohibited.
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I have a BG250 112 and when i bought it i choose from lots of versions and the TCelectronic was the best.
The trips add up. One extra trip is actually 4 extra trips by the time you allow for load in and load out, plus the reverse at home. And the days when I could stagger in the door and leave the gear in the hall are long gone: now it all has to be carried upstairs without chipping the paint and put away neatly, and it all adds up to hassle I don't need.
Maybe two things I missed saying in the original thread. I thought the TCE sounded great. I think the power handling of the speaker sounded really good. If it had one minor change to that amp I would have bought it on the spot and probably treated it with kid gloves because of all of the warnings I have heard regarding reliability. Frankly I think it may have been adequate.
That being said I still think it is a mistake on their part to not offer the option. Almost every other combo does. It would put them at the top of the market for feature set in a smallish combo able to play small clubs.
My Ashdown MAG 300 with the 2x10 is really a decent amp. I just want more flexibility and to be able to turn up louder without fear. Last night we played and there were no issues at all. It will keep up with the full stack playing hardcore at high volume. I understand that most people don't play as loud as we do but really volume is part of that type of music. If I played in a Country Western band both combos the Ashdown and TCE would be fantastic choices for most clubs.
So.last night I swung by the pawnshop near our space and I had and old Yamaha medium/ short scale bass I traded in for an Apocalypse proof Peavey Mark IV. Close to an even switch. I have a line on a high wattage 2x12. I've never been super enamoured with 2x12s for bass so we'll see how it goes, but beggars can't be choosers, but now I at least have a backup.
Thanks so much for for all the responses.
Jeff
That being said I still think it is a mistake on their part to not offer the option. Almost every other combo does. It would put them at the top of the market for feature set in a smallish combo able to play small clubs.
My Ashdown MAG 300 with the 2x10 is really a decent amp. I just want more flexibility and to be able to turn up louder without fear. Last night we played and there were no issues at all. It will keep up with the full stack playing hardcore at high volume. I understand that most people don't play as loud as we do but really volume is part of that type of music. If I played in a Country Western band both combos the Ashdown and TCE would be fantastic choices for most clubs.
So.last night I swung by the pawnshop near our space and I had and old Yamaha medium/ short scale bass I traded in for an Apocalypse proof Peavey Mark IV. Close to an even switch. I have a line on a high wattage 2x12. I've never been super enamoured with 2x12s for bass so we'll see how it goes, but beggars can't be choosers, but now I at least have a backup.
Thanks so much for for all the responses.
Jeff
Those trips are my main form of exercise.
okcrum
in your chest
Each of us (hopefully) solves the logistics of gigging in the way that works best for where and how we live and play.
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We got it, you want an extra different feature set from the one TC decided would be their best seller. That's not a mistake, it's a choice made to maximize their profit. Tough bickies!
wouldn't adding several thin rubber washers pretty much fix the noisy grill issue?
btw, i like the BG250 2x8 - i think it sounds surprisingly good. used to love the BG250 15, as well. it's true that when i used to play out, i used a lot more wattage and speakerage than that, but for home play and say classic rock bands, i think the TC combos could be fine.
btw, i like the BG250 2x8 - i think it sounds surprisingly good. used to love the BG250 15, as well. it's true that when i used to play out, i used a lot more wattage and speakerage than that, but for home play and say classic rock bands, i think the TC combos could be fine.
The idea of their combo is small convenient, cheap, as loud as possible. Job done.
D
Deleted member 165050
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So you are saying a speaker rated for 350 watts RMS can't handle 350 watts RMS? Someone had better tell the amp manufacturers... all of them...
