Teaching Band Member Harmony Vocals

[jdh3000]

Love talking this stuff. I've played upright bass off and on since the '70's, but I've only been in one organized four piece group. We were all decent players, but our singing far exceeded our playing in terms of quality. All four of us could sing 3 parts without any prompting, and we were quick to correct one another when a stray note or two showed up. An no one got out of shape about it. It was always for the better. Best song we ever did, from my standpoint, was the Eagles' "Seven Bridges Road". I love singing that song..a true test of harmony and timiing. Also did the Gatlin Bros. "Just Wish You Were Someone I Loved". They get into the harmony on this piece by piece, and they kill it. Straying off, gotta stop.

Oh wow, I just heard that Gatlin song the other day for the first time in years. They had awesome harmonies.

Yes Seven Bridges is a great piece to do. We did it in my previous band only as 4 piece, minus Don Felder's part. Would've been great as 5 but we did ok.

Yes I've known bands who's playing ability was good, but their tight vocals were what set them far and above; they could carry a show without any music.
My wife's cousin's band was such; 4 guys, each one individually had a voice as beautiful as anything you'd ever hear, then put together as something that sounded like magic.

I love to hear groups like that. It's inspiring to hear what the human voice is capable of.

 

[two fingers]

It's been many years since I was in a school chorus or choir, but if I remember correctly, seems there's a selection process there. Not just any kid gets to stay in chorus, you have to have some aptitude for it to begin with and the ones that don't have it and are throwing off the others don't get carried along for very long.

So I'm not sure those people are learning much beyond how to sharpen what they already have. It is a great place to learn how to sight read vocals though, and that can certainly sharpen your abilities.

Nope. Not these days. All aptitudes are welcome in chorus class at my daughters' school. I just chaperoned a trip for my older one Friday. About half those kids showed up to 7th grade chorus not knowing how to sing at all. Some have natural ears. Many don't. Their teacher drags them all over the finish line (in a nice way....she's great).

 

[jdh3000]

Not to be Debbie Downer on this, but this is what I mean when I suggest that people who want to learn to harmonize and don't already have the ability are going to have to do some work to train their ears if they want to do it. In my experience, it's not something your typical drummer in your typical band is going to want to devote time or effort to, but if they do, then by all means encourage it. These are great skills to build. However, it's their work to do, not yours.

Do not expect this to translate into instant stage success, though. They are still going to get dragged back to what the ear hears most easily, which is why I tend to toss my hands in the air when asked to do this. I've never seen it work in a band setting where you just give the guy something to sing and he learns how to sing it without getting derailed by the other singers. Not once.

I guess in my mind I'm thinking that being in a band and applying skills to the business at hand is a different sort of situation than skill building, though there is of course a lot of overlap in the sense that we learn a lot through playing with others. What I'm getting at here is that rose-colored glasses can waste a lot of your time.

I agree. I'm a bit jaded in the sense that I've worked with few who would be motivated to do this level of work to build that skill, but if that motivation exists and they want to do it, I think that's wonderful. I'll emphasize again that this is not answering the OPs question which has more to do with what he and his bandmates can do to help. They can encourage this sort of skill building but beyond that, I don't think there's much they can do in a practical sense in rehearsals or otherwise.

I think overall you're correct, however I sense in him a desire and the talent to work at it. Example is when he goes off track, he ralealizes it and stops. People I've worked with before just kept on singing when they'd get on the melody.
At least he knows where to make the correction, it's just giving him some tools, a guideline to go by.

Nothing is set in stone, we just thought we'd take a couple of songs and work on them in practice once we got him staying on pitch. If it doesn't work there, we can all agree that it's best put on the back burner and get on with business.
Trust me I wouldn't waste the time if I didn't think he'd put in the effort.

We'll put the burden on him, just as I've done with my students in the past. I'd assign them work at the lesson, if they didn't show me they were making the effort(usually kids) I'd tell their parents I wasn't going to continue taking their money, as much as I liked it, if the student had no motivation to learn. I could only do so much, they had to want it.
Same here... he'll have to come back showing progress on his own. We can point him in the right direction but from there it's his job.

 

[mambo4]

Does your band have vocal only rehearsals?
My father's band nailed Crosby Still and Nash tunes back in the day,
and every other rehearsal was one acoustic guitar, drumsticks on a phone book, and nothing else but vocal parts.

 

[jdh3000]

Does your band have vocal only rehearsals?
My father's band nailed Crosby Still and Nash tunes back in the day,
and every other rehearsal was one acoustic guitar, drumsticks on a phone book, and nothing else but vocal parts.

Yea that's been the best way to tighten up harmonies in every band I've been in that excelled at it.

 

[KenD]

Vocal harmonies are chords. He needs to know the chord intervals and to be able to hear and hit the appropriate interval in relation to the root.

 

[lokikallas]

Vocal harmonies can be counterpoint, or sometimes two different rhythms altogether. I would isolate the line on keys and build it piece by piece.

 

[Tim Grant]

Join a commuity choir and learn chord inversions on guitar or piano and find a way to practice. Learn to find a chord tone in a song and then the next closest pitch in the next chord. Sometimes it's the same pitch. I got a lot of practice by going to a Mennonite church where my wife played piano for 5 years. We are not Mennonite but those people can harmonize, they are amazing singers. Another thing I do to practice is when I'm in the car alone I will pull up a folk artist with minimal instrumentation and try to fit a harmony line in where there isn't one. If you need a place to start, try a Gillian Welch album called "Soul Journey". After all of that I feel like I can usually harmonize with anyone on the spot without needing to work out lines. Good luck!

 

[Freddy T]

To the OP - it sounds like your drummer has potential. I would have him learn the main melodic line and Harmony line cold. Since he doesn't play a melodic instrument, this can help him create musical memories in his head to compare and contrast lines. As he progresses he will build a musical library of Melody vs Harmony lines based on the various chords in your tunes. If he has aptitude he will begin to hear the melodicism of the Harmony line and hopefully start to "own" the part. And knowing the Melody line can help a newbie backup singer be aware of what not to sing.

 

[pcake]

A question for all the harmony singers.

Do you hear harmonies as separate voices or as an interval?

Our drummer sings well, with a good high and low range, but doesn't sing harmony. We think he could really add something to our sound and we want to give him a part, plus he is wanting to learn.

The guitar player and myself have different approaches. He says learning the part and practicing that part alone is the only way to learn to sing harmony well, listening to your own voice.

The drummer has tried this but loses it once he tries to put it with the other parts.

I personally can only hear the voices together as intervals, 3rd, 5th, etc... I've tried over the years to hear it separate but never could distinguish, I only hear a certain sound. It sounds weird to my ear to try to hear it without the blend.

I can form the sound correctly, as long as I know what it should sound like, or hear in my head what to make it sound like… I just sing and my voice goes to the part, that's just how I learned. I know what the part sounds like in the context of being with the lead vocal.

This drummer doesn't know theory, so talking to him about any of that is difficult. But he has a good ear, I think if we can show him what the part should sound like in a song he can learn what to sing easier.

I think if he tries to learn each part as a line, it'll take him longer I would think the end result would be to hear all the parts together.

All of our harmonies are simple, there's no interweaving.

I'm not saying the guitar player is wrong, I just think everyone learns it differently. If he's not getting it that way, maybe this way would work.

The folks I grew up around didn't know theory, and couldn't tell you anything about what they were doing, but they could harmonize beautifully.
They could hear a part and just add another without working it out in advance.

How did you learn and how have you shown others?

Thanks!

i've sung harmonies for decades at achool, in choir, in music class, in a high school a capela group and in bands. i have never once bee asked to learn a harmony line separately from the other singers by any teacher or band leader, and i've never heard anyone else asked to do that. i don't know if i could learn it that way, but i know it would annoy me. harmony is about how your voice or instrument works with the other voices or instruments.

another problem i have there is that a lot of people who ultimately have trouble singing harmonies or who can't do harmony have their voice wander toward the dominant voice, and prccticing along won't address that. that happened every time a person without the ear for harmonies has sung with me or a group because they aren't strong on where their voice sits in the harmony.

just my opinion, but whether someone can sign harmony depends a lot on how they hear music and particularly harmony. my husband can't hear harmony. he's an awesome guitar player with decades of experience, but he can't hear whether voices or notes are multiples notes or several of the same note, and he's not the only person i've met like that.

Oh, man. My experience is that you've either got it or you don't. I have wasted a lot of time and effort trying to teach someone a harmony, only to have them fold that in with the melody line as soon as the melody is added, just as you describe.

My theory in trying this is that if you can learn a melody, you can learn a harmony once you sing it enough that it becomes like a melody to you. I think that's what your guitar player is trying to bank on.

Unfortunately, what happens is that the known melody takes over when someone doesn't have the ear to differentiate. No matter what you teach them, they will sing the melody as soon as it is included in the mix, because they know the song that way and the melody is more familiar.

I've never found a way to teach someone who can't find a harmony on their own to sing one. I don't know how to address it because I don't understand it; I didn't learn anything; I have always been able to find and sing a harmony. As someone who can hear all the parts I can't process what's going on for someone who can't, so there's no way I can dig into what they do hear to sort out how to separate out the harmony parts, if that makes any sense. Perhaps doing ear training and singing along with arpeggios or something played against chords would help, but it seems one would need to be pretty dedicated to doing this in order to go through that, and I don't think many people are.

So I really don't have much to offer. It sounds like you are also someone who hears harmonies well, but it doesn't sound like your drummer is.

a thousand times this!

 

[MichelD]

I remember the first band I was in when I was 16. The drummer and the guitar player were working out the vocals for some song or the other (we were doing mostly British invasion stuff -- this was 1969) and asked me to do a harmony. They demonstrated it to me and then we tried to sing together.

"Nah, forget it," was the response.

That explains my harmony singing career ever since.

As LBS-bass said above "I've never found a way to teach someone who can't find a harmony on their own to sing one."

I'm that guy.

In fact ever since I first saw the Beatles on TV in 1964 and loved pop music and tried to sing along, I could never figure out why I couldn't find the notes of the melody with my voice, never mind the harmony.

As Hamertime above wrote: "I think you either have it or you don't. "

Well I just explained what category I'm in.

 

[Mark Karwan]

It can get easier with practice- maybe he isn't naturally gifted with it and maybe he won't ever get it, or maybe its like riding a bike in that you can't ride a bike until you can, and then it just clicks.

If he really wants to get it, you might suggest he dedicate time to listening closely to recordings (headphones recommended) with two or three part harmonies, and just LISTEN to track each voice separately, and then try singing along with one existing voice and then another. This way he might pick up something of the knack of it (focusing on one part and not latching onto the other) without you all needing to be in the same room awkwardly. This approach helped me a lot. Anything CSNY. "The Eye" by Brandi Carlile. Hell, "Them Bones" by AiC.

 

[LBS-bass]

Nope. Not these days. All aptitudes are welcome in chorus class at my daughters' school. I just chaperoned a trip for my older one Friday. About half those kids showed up to 7th grade chorus not knowing how to sing at all. Some have natural ears. Many don't. Their teacher drags them all over the finish line (in a nice way....she's great).

That's great, actually.

 

[Geogio]

Why not schedule a session with a bocal coach, in person. They are just about everywhere these days.

 

[Mechanical]

One other thing that has worked for us is vocal rehearsals. One of our singers plays keys. Guitar and drums stay home. No bass. Just chords on piano. We hammer out the harmonies with no interruptions. And out guitarist and drummer don't have to sit around while we do it. We get a LOT done during these sessions.

This. Singing harmonies is a skill like any other. There isn't a "got it or don't"

 

[Hammertime3]

I'm always amazed, or perplexed, by lead singers who can "sing the fire" out of most any song, but can't hear a lick of harmony. To make matters worse, some think that singing unison is harmony as long as you start and finish at the same time. I 've known several like this in my long life, and probably you have too.

 

[two fingers]

Love talking this stuff. I've played upright bass off and on since the '70's, but I've only been in one organized four piece group. We were all decent players, but our singing far exceeded our playing in terms of quality. All four of us could sing 3 parts without any prompting, and we were quick to correct one another when a stray note or two showed up. An no one got out of shape about it. It was always for the better. Best song we ever did, from my standpoint, was the Eagles' "Seven Bridges Road". I love singing that song..a true test of harmony and timiing. Also did the Gatlin Bros. "Just Wish You Were Someone I Loved". They get into the harmony on this piece by piece, and they kill it. Straying off, gotta stop.

This is another thing that rings true with me. I had to put my ego in my pocket. Both of my other singers do it as well. For some reason, certain harmonies "jump out" at me more then them. And certain harmonies seem "buried" to me until one of them uncovers them for me. I've shown up thinking I had a part nailed. One of them will stop the music and sing my part for me. It's like an alarm going off once they do it. I've done it for them as well. Crazy how our ears are all different.

But if you can take, and give, criticism gracefully, you'll all be better off for it.

 

[eriky4003]

I'm in the 'if I can 'hear' my part, that's what I'll shoot for' camp.
I haven't read everything on this thread but my suggestion is to give the drummer the lead part (which he can nail) and the other members harmonize to him. That would be the quickest way but I realize it may be tougher on the voices of the other harmonizers (as they would have to sing higher and may burn their voices out).

 

[jdh3000]

I'm in the 'if I can 'hear' my part, that's what I'll shoot for' camp.
I haven't read everything on this thread but my suggestion is to give the drummer the lead part (which he can nail) and the other members harmonize to him. That would be the quickest way but I realize it may be tougher on the voices of the other harmonizers (as they would have to sing higher and may burn their voices out).

It's pretty much the guitar player's band and he does most of the songs. We have another player but he doesn't sing well so he has less potential to pick up a part.

We all take turns on songs. I personally prefer to just do harmony, I've had my share of front man duties before.

We had a keyboard player who did a lot of harmony but he quit, so rather than replace him, we decided to continue as a 4 piece, and I picked up his vocal parts.

So the drummer has been doing some lead vocals but will be picking up more songs to do now.

 

[Mike Sorr]

I have a good ear for being about to pick out individual voices in harmony, and I wish I could sing, but I admit I do not have a good singing voice. It has been an issue for gigs where background vocals are important. I always tried to convince myself that if Neil Young could be in one of the greatest vocal rock groups of all time, I could sing backup too. But I'm just really bad at it.