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Tech 21 Club

#801
600 Ohms said:
Took receipt of a second-hand RBI today from a fellow TB'er, to try as a supplement to my GED-2112. I wonder if I can do the trick of combining the two the way you can with RBI/RPM. Not sure how that affects the dual output of the GED.

Boy, the RBI is an instant winner. Different enough from the RPM in its voicing. With a Jazz bass, it makes this wonderful, throaty and rounded tone, in fingerstyle, that is just what I consider archetypical Jazz Bass. With a P, I could quickly dial in a very satisfying low thumping tone, where there isn't a ton of definition, but some "hidden" drive for good measure that makes it cut. So far, the Presence is a useful control, but I tend not to use much of it, depends on the song I guess. But the low end authority of both of these Tech 21 boxes are really satisfying, and they sound so much like records I love. I'm only sad I didn't try these earlier. Getting lots of Tchad Blake vibes from both, which makes me a happy guy.

All smiles.
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I haven't tried any GED models, but noticed they have not much control to "RBI" channel tone compared to real RBI and RPM in parallel.

RBI is easy to get certain sound and has better low end kick than RPM. I think it comes from the SVT 810 low end imitation and cuts through really well. Only reason I moved away from it was the need for more overdrive, but only in top/mid end. If you put enough overdrive it makes low end farting but on the other hand I liked its low end compression that DG B7K was missing. My final solution recently was the Source Audio Ultrawave doing both (comp and mid/high distortion) at once. Compared to RBI "switch on and go" type fast setup SA has steep learning curve.
 
#802
paskisti said:
I haven't tried any GED models, but noticed they have not much control to "RBI" channel tone compared to real RBI and RPM in parallel.

RBI is easy to get certain sound and has better low end kick than RPM. I think it comes from the SVT 810 low end imitation and cuts through really well. Only reason I moved away from it was the need for more overdrive, but only in top/mid end. If you put enough overdrive it makes low end farting but on the other hand I liked its low end compression that DG B7K was missing. My final solution recently was the Source Audio Ultrawave doing both (comp and mid/high distortion) at once. Compared to RBI "switch on and go" type fast setup SA has steep learning curve.
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The same 50/50 Mix loop controls are there, and the GED is clearly a cousin of RBI and RPM in its design, so it may still be possible. Maybe the thing would be to run the RPM-side of the 2112 (only) into the RBI for a truly apples-to-apples comparison. Will report.

If the 2112 is essentially an RPM and a sort of specific version of an SVT/8x10 simulation (the Deep channel) in one box, then they've solved the perceived lack of "low end kick". I can confirm the 2112 has bags of it to spare. This being said, I still think the RBI is worth keeping in my rack because it does seem to do a lot of things really well, particularly for cleaner tones. These units are inexpensive enough that I don't feel like I have to sell one to afford the other, and that is a good thing.
 
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#803
So it is possible to combine 2112 and RBI in same way as with an PRM, but it gets even more interesting if you do this:

1. Jump 2112's Deep out into its own FX Return
2. Jump 2112's Drive out to the FX return of RBI
3. Jump RBI's Uneffected out to 2112's bass input
4. Send RBI's Sansamp out to the amp

This allows you to collapse 2112 to a single output, then run that with RBI in parallel.

You can clearly hear that RBI, if set to full blend, is a more scooped tone that the Deep side of 2112, which retains some midrange the RBI's Sansamp circuit drops. The other thing is that by combining 2112's outputs, to me at least, it stops sounding like the 2112 does when I run two outputs to a recorder or mixer (i.e., "properly"). To @paskisti 's point, RBI has its own special brand of low end kick—I agree!

Moral of the story, I love both of these preamps and they are there for different jobs, with the added bonus of doing some interesting stuff when combined. I liked the tone of RBI on 100% Blend, and 2112's Drive side only, cranked for drive, and it's a different tone than using 2112 in the way it is designed. What can I say? For a couple hundies I got a whole new set of tone shaping options.
 
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#805
600 Ohms said:
So it is possible to combine 2112 and RBI in same way as with an PRM, but it gets even more interesting if you do this:

1. Jump 2112's Deep out into its own FX Return
2. Jump 2112's Drive out to the FX return of RBI
3. Jump RBI's Uneffected out to 2112's bass input
4. Send RBI's Sansamp out to the amp

This allows you to collapse 2112 to a single output, then run that with RBI in parallel.

You can clearly hear that RBI, if set to full blend, is a more scooped tone that the Deep side of 2112, which retains some midrange the RBI's Sansamp circuit drops. The other thing is that by combining 2112's outputs, to me at least, it stops sounding like the 2112 does when I run two outputs to a recorder or mixer (i.e., "properly"). To @paskisti 's point, RBI has its own special brand of low end kick—I agree!

Moral of the story, I love both of these preamps and they are there for different jobs, with the added bonus of doing some interesting stuff when combined. I liked the tone of RBI on 100% Blend, and 2112's Drive side only, cranked for drive, and it's a different tone than using 2112 in the way it is designed. What can I say? For a couple hundies I got a whole new set of tone shaping options.
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Really great stuff. :thumbsup: When I was rack-rigging I ran RBI/RPM in parallel; it's cool to know that RBI/2112 will work that way too!

Yes, the RBI has the same dip in the mids that's inherent to the BDDI. I have no experience with the 2112, but for others who were asking: the RPM is essentially flat when tone knobs are zeroed (no mid scoop), in fact I know someone who ran it totally clean as a transparent preamp/EQ. Interestingly, the RPM has a different distortion engine than the RBI -- seems more coarse. For that reason I always thought of the RBI as an overdrive, the RPM as distortion (those are simply my terms, others may argue and I won't push back).
 
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#806
600 Ohms said:
The same 50/50 Mix loop controls are there, and the GED is clearly a cousin of RBI and RPM in its design, so it may still be possible. Maybe the thing would be to run the RPM-side of the 2112 (only) into the RBI for a truly apples-to-apples comparison. Will report.

If the 2112 is essentially an RPM and a sort of specific version of an SVT/8x10 simulation (the Deep channel) in one box, then they've solved the perceived lack of "low end kick". I can confirm the 2112 has bags of it to spare. This being said, I still think the RBI is worth keeping in my rack because it does seem to do a lot of things really well, particularly for cleaner tones. These units are inexpensive enough that I don't feel like I have to sell one to afford the other, and that is a good thing.
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I’m a new RBI owner. I have a few years running a GED-2112, which is still my favorite rack mounted bass preamp. I still can’t get over how much I love being able to run separate speaker cabinets using Clean/Dirty sounds and blending them together. It’s really a game changer in my opinion.

I’m still learning my new RBI, and I’m having a lot of fun with it. It’s such an incredible bass preamp.

At this point, I want to put both the GED and the RBI together in the same rack. I’m not sure if I ever want to use them in tandem, but tonhave them together gives me the option of running whichever preamp is the best fit for a given situation.
 
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#807
Fuzzbass said:
Really great stuff. :thumbsup: When I was rack-rigging I ran RBI/RPM in parallel; it's cool to know that RBI/2112 will work that way too!

Yes, the RBI has the same dip in the mids that's inherent to the BDDI. I have no experience with the 2112, but for others who were asking: the RPM is essentially flat when tone knobs are zeroed (no mid scoop), in fact I know someone who ran it totally clean as a transparent preamp/EQ. Interestingly, the RPM has a different distortion engine than the RBI -- seems more coarse. For that reason I always thought of the RBI as an overdrive, the RPM as distortion (those are simply my terms, others may argue and I won't push back).
Click to expand...
Definitely different circuits and I agree with the bit about the OD/dist. I ran both through Plugin Doctor last night to see what was going on with the frequencies and essentially, when you blend both the 2112 and RBI out to 0% and set EQ at noon, both are essentially a flat DI.

The Drive knob does change the EQ shape in both units but in very different ways. In the RBI, I saw the big dip around 650-750 hz at 8-9 o’clock, but it flattened out somewhat, and lowered the center to around 400-500 as the knob went higher. Whereas the 2112’s Drive held a very different shape, never as drastic, and with a lot of low end.

My feeling is that RBI in full blend (100%) is a tone that I deeply resonate with. But it isn’t a tone I can use for very much on its own, due to the lack of definition. However if you either blend a bit of the DI side in, or combine it with another DI or channel, it’s magic.

The other funny thing that happens is when I start by playing the 2112, I think it sounds great. Then by switching off the Deep channel and turning on the RBI in full-blend, my ear gets used to the big scoop. If I go back to the 2112’s Deep channel, I’m hit by all this low midrange and have to readjust my ears. With clean tones, I prefer to carve out 500Hz cause I think it sounds like garbage most of the time. But the lesson is with “amp”-type tones, or when adding distortion, that 500 becomes a very useful tool to help you cut through. As always, the song and the mix determines the right bass tone.
 
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#808
600 Ohms said:
Definitely different circuits and I agree with the bit about the OD/dist. I ran both through Plugin Doctor last night to see what was going on with the frequencies and essentially, when you blend both the 2112 and RBI out to 0% and set EQ at noon, both are essentially a flat DI.

The Drive knob does change the EQ shape in both units but in very different ways. In the RBI, I saw the big dip around 650-750 hz at 8-9 o’clock, but it flattened out somewhat, and lowered the center to around 400-500 as the knob went higher. Whereas the 2112’s Drive held a very different shape, never as drastic, and with a lot of low end.

My feeling is that RBI in full blend (100%) is a tone that I deeply resonate with. But it isn’t a tone I can use for very much on its own, due to the lack of definition. However if you either blend a bit of the DI side in, or combine it with another DI or channel, it’s magic.

The other funny thing that happens is when I start by playing the 2112, I think it sounds great. Then by switching off the Deep channel and turning on the RBI in full-blend, my ear gets used to the big scoop. If I go back to the 2112’s Deep channel, I’m hit by all this low midrange and have to readjust my ears. With clean tones, I prefer to carve out 500Hz cause I think it sounds like garbage most of the time. But the lesson is with “amp”-type tones, or when adding distortion, that 500 becomes a very useful tool to help you cut through. As always, the song and the mix determines the right bass tone.
Click to expand...

Cool stuff!!!

I’m having a great time with my new RBI. I’ve used the sample settings from the owner’s manual as a starting point, and I’ve done a little tweaking with each setting to dial in a sound that’s closer to what I’d actually use.

I do find that I prefer to run the Blend control at around 50% or less, and the same goes for the Presence control. In fact, I personally prefer the Presence control well below 50% so far.

I’m really looking forward to use it the next time I get together with my friends and have a jam session. I’m sure I find plenty of great sounds that I’ll use on gigs.

So far, I’m plugging it into my Crest CA9, which is powering my Mesa Powerhouse 610 cabinet. I can say this particular setup will be way too much for anything other than an outdoor gig or in a really big room.

I barely cracked open the CA9’s volume and my dogs immediately ran for cover to my wife upstairs. That cut my experimenting with the RBI short. I really felt bad that it spooked them as bad as it does.

Next time, I’m going to plug the RBI into my Yamaha PX5, into my pair of Aguilar GS112’s. I should be able to control my volume a lot better with the setup. Plus, I can also listen to my GED-2112 side by side to the RBI. I’m curious if I’ll hear the same things that you’re hearing.

Take Care!!!
 
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#809
My current favorite way to run the RBI is to set the drive where I like it for the song (usually 10:00 to 3:00 depending), blend 100% and Bass and Treble at 1:00, Mids at noon. No presence, usually, or very little. This puts the RBI into maximum scooped SVT-ultra-low sounding mode. Then I take the output of my Capo with minimal or no EQ (maybe a 500Hz or 900Hz cut) and run the two in parallel. This gives you all the definition and articulation of what is essentially a DI sound, and combines it with the massively fat bottom end of the RBI. Using the blend knob at 40-50-60% I guess is the rough equivalent of using the second preamp/DI, but I like the control of them being separate, and Capo has more sparkle.
 
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#810
The Blend control when set to fully minimum disengages the SansAmp circuit. Full up and the signal is 100% SansAmp which is how any vintage tube amp operates. The Blend is for DI use. Typically an engineer will DI your bass and if you are lucky, mic your amp. With our SansAmp's, you have a similar ability when going directly to the board. Both the RBI and GED-2112 can be set for cleaner sounds with the Blend at 100%. It's up to you and how you are using it. The GED-2112 has the advantage of the Deep channel which is like having a dedicated DI channel.
 
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#811
Arthur U. Poon said:
I do find that I prefer to run the Blend control at around 50% or less, and the same goes for the Presence control. In fact, I personally prefer the Presence control well below 50% so far.
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The RBI has the BDDI scoop in the mids. I usually love that for my P-style basses, but when I wanted to avoid that I would roll Blend back.

The Presence control is boost only, unlike the other EQ controls that are cut/boost. I'm convinced that those who have said the BDDI/RBI are "too clanky" were unaware of this, and had Presence set to noon -- which could be clanky (but I happen to like it :bassist:)

Presence is also part of the SansAmp circuit, so if you roll Blend down to zero, it (Presence) won't affect your tone (same as Drive).
 
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#814
Fuzzbass said:
Haha! However some users mitigate the scoop by cutting both bass and treble, rather than rolling back blend (a little of both is another option).
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When you were running the RBI, where did you keep the Blend most of the time?

Playing through RBI full SansAmp circuit plus an un-EQ'ed DI, is a tone I keep coming back to, at least with a Precision.
 
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#815
600 Ohms said:
When you were running the RBI, where did you keep the Blend most of the time?

Playing through RBI full SansAmp circuit plus an un-EQ'ed DI, is a tone I keep coming back to, at least with a Precision.
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IMO, running it this way is putting the blend in the soundman's hands, which if you have two channels is probably a better way of doing it as it allows the soundman to process the clean and SansAmp separately.
 
#816
600 Ohms said:
When you were running the RBI, where did you keep the Blend most of the time?

Playing through RBI full SansAmp circuit plus an un-EQ'ed DI, is a tone I keep coming back to, at least with a Precision.
Click to expand...

When I was rack rigging I usually ran RBI in parallel with RPM (not an intuitive setup, I'd have to look it up). In that case, Blend was between noon and 2pm, to mix in RPM signal.

When I ran the RBI solo I kept Blend much closer to max, probably because I prefer mid-forward P-style basses, and I also leaned into that particular SansAmp tone.
 
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#817
IMG_6740.jpeg
Lets see if I can replicate a 2112 sound without owning a 2112 ;)
 
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