Tech advances in basses since the early days

[Jefenator]

Those rubber washers you stretch over the strap button to keep the strap from slipping off.

YES!

Thank you!
And now you can just get them on Amazon - no more having to buy & drink a couple bottles of Grolsch beer.
If that isn’t a clear cut case of innovation making everybody’s life better, I don’t know what is!

 

[JimmyM]

Meant to come back to your post when I had more time and it slipped my mind till now.

The HipShot Xtender is indeed an excellent tech addition. They do have a couple of downsides (you never get something for nothing). First, though they work quite well, I am constantly unhappy with their pitch inaccuracies. And, I mention that aspect in the context of proper use / installation. Even when the tension in the string between the nut and the tuner is properly adjusted, my sense of pitch is just never really happy with the repeatability. The average listener probably doesn’t hear it; but, I do. Still, I do appreciate what the Xtender does; and every one of my 4 bangers has one. Great piece of kit, pitch issues notwithstanding. Also, I find that frequent ratcheting back and forth tends to kill my E strings a good bit sooner, due to induced metallurgical fatigue on the string core.

String fatigue is an issue. You may still change the tension when you downtune, but you don't have to do it as much as you do with the key (I have to use it when I'm tuning, otherwise, it won't be reliable). And yeah, they can be pretty tricky to operate. Took me about a week to figure out how I could make it reliable.

I do use active electronics; but, honestly I think we make too much out of them. The decision as to where the preamplifier stages should be physically located is somewhat arbitrary. I never use cables that are so long that cable impedance causes issues. I guess it is nice to have more control onboard; and I do use that. But, the whole thing seems 6 of one, half dozen of the other for most practical rigs.

They're good for sitting in when the house bassist tells you not to touch his amp And it is kind of nice if you need to make a change on the fly to not have to go back to your amp or board. But I've pretty well phased out the active basses at this point. Once in a while...

Which brings me to the neck through vs bolt on tech. We started with bolt ons; neck through came along; and now we are pretty much back to bolt ons. I can hear differences. My neck through instruments are just much more even across the board and spectrum. OTOH, bolt ons have more punch. Musically speaking, I like each one for different reasons. But, there is a dark aspect to neck through constructions; which is that they make servicing the instrument to be either a nightmare or impossible as the instrument gets played hard, due to complexities of replacing finger boards or broken truss rods. On a bolt on instrument, one can “simply” replace the whole neck. On a neck through, it can be high drama. Alembic advertises that they use a sacrificial laminate for this reason. But, they very kindly replaced a broken truss on my Series I a few years back; and I know they were sweating bullets when it came to the actual procedure. Mike Tobias has gone nearly 100% bolt on. I’m fine with bolt on instruments. But it would be nice to figure out how to make neck through constructions more practically durable.

At least they've made them cheaper to build in mass. But while yet to face any problems of that nature with my two neck-thrus, it's a consideration. Not much of one for me since I'm all about bolt-ons and set necks. For the reasons you mentioned, I think they make for a better sounding bass. And guitar, for that matter. But yeah, it would be pretty costly and time consuming to do those types of repairs.

Finally, it is a simple fact that single coil pickups on dual pickup instruments have an undeniably desireable open sound quality. But, they can also create nightmares, particularly on stages with various lighting setups. And, one never knows when that will happen. Alembic pretty much solved that by using a dummy humcanceller in the mid 70’s; but for some reason, that solution has never caught on. Instead we just tend to get humcancelling pickups, which don’t sound quite as great. Pat Wilkins does install a similar circuit in some of his basses. But, we could use a lot more implementation in more of the popular onboard preamps.

I've been pretty lucky with single coils in my basses and interference. Once in a while it's a problem but mostly it hasn't been.

 

[JimmyM]

LOL, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. If JimmyM is anyone other than a tiny black man, I would be thoroughly disappointed

I'm an average sized white guy. Sorry.

 

[Winton]

I'm an average sized white guy. Sorry.

It's all good, my man. I don't discriminate

 

[JimmyM]

Lightwave. I knew several guys that had them - some loved them, some hated them. Haven't heard about them for several years. Are they still around?

Yes but rebranded as Willcox and they just call the pickup the Lightwave now. I'll try to be polite here and say I've played them and I didn't like them. Too polite sounding. Sort of like this post

 

[Buster Brown]

Yes but rebranded as Willcox and they just call the pickup the Lightwave now. I'll try to be polite here and say I've played them and I didn't like them. Too polite.

I know that one of the guys that had bought one right after they came out wasn't at all polite....matter of fact, he was downright nasty.....

I seem to recall him kicking himself in the ass quite a bit........

 

[Justinian]

(NOTE: Yes, I have way too much time on my hands at the moment. I've been under the weather so don't be hatin'.)

As low tech as I can appear sometimes, I'm not all against tech. I'm glad it exists and I find a lot of it useful, and it makes me happy to see what may be coming along the horizon. So I'll give a little list of the stuff I think has been truly innovative and impactful to the bass world since the days when Fender, Danelectro, and Gibson were about it for bass choices, then I want to hear yours. Two requests, though...

1. No blatant product bashing.
2. Try to keep it specific to the instrument itself.
3. If you disagree with someone's choices (and you will), that's cool but don't be a jerk about it.

Anyway, here's my list:

---Roundwound, tapewound, and coated strings: DUH!!! Not a fan of tapes or coateds, but they were innovative when they came out.

---Added strings: People have been adding strings to instruments for centuries, but builders have to be creative with technology to build necks that can handle the tension and stay stable on some of these basses, especially since there seems to be no limit to the amount of strings some want.

---Active electronics: Not everyone likes them, and I tend not to use them so much anymore, but they are certainly innovative for their time, and that can't be denied.

---Advances in saddle technology: The bent plate works and works very well if you know how to finesse it, but I would like saddles that are a little less crude than the threaded saddles, and I want them mounted on bent plates. Good luck with that in today's market but a guy can dream...

---Hipshot Bass Xtender: I was a latecomer to them, but I love them. I find it crazy how the head of Hipshot was able to design something that you'd think has no right to work if you look at it, but it works incredibly well if you follow directions.

---Kahler Bass Whammy: Kind of a frivolous choice, I admit. Some folks love them, some folks think they're stupid. But they were the first one ever made that stays in tune, and though I don't want any more basses with them, I'm glad to have the one I have. And I've found (read: stolen) some cool uses for it that aren't just divebombs, though divebombs are fun.

---Pickups that convert string tones to synth/digital: Wish it was better than using a keyboard, but it's been improving since the early Roland synth guitars, and it opens bassists and guitarists up to the creative possibilities that were only possible with keyboards before.

Everything else that's happened, I tend to believe are variations on themes that came before, have dubious or unproven claims about what they do, or fall into the category of "Good idea on paper."

Feel free to add your own thoughts and nitpick mine, but don't make me come over there and straighten you kids out while I'm trying to play my banjo!

I’d also add that Chinese manufacture improved greatly! I am beyond astounded at the quality of my new 50s P bass! It feels just like an old Fender, and I’ve said that about other basses in my lot, but nah, this is on another level!

I think the age of information had a lot to do with this: better knowledge, craftmanship, tools, etc.

The advancements are not always on the bass themselves, but they show in the fine details of the finished product!

 

[Billyzoom]

The Stick really isnt a bass. It can be used as one no different than a synth can but, like a synthesizer, it was never intended to just be a bass instrument. Although there are now "Bass Sticks" made nowadays because of its use by bassists, its original intent was to be its own instrument - like a stringed piano with multiple note choices in the array - and can be played self accompanied ensemble. Trey Gunn, Nick Beggs, and Tony Levin have brought it to the forefront as a bass instrument and the reason I bought mine.....but this is really what it does:

This just blows my mind. Incomprehensible.

 

[spatters]

Alembic pretty much solved that by using a dummy humcanceller in the mid 70’s; but for some reason, that solution has never caught on.

Because adding a dummy coil doubles the inductance of the pickup, which is exactly what would happen if you just made a split-coil pickup in the first place...and which will lower the resonant frequency by the same amount, thus losing the same amount of high end.

(If you parallel the dummy coil, the effect on tone is exactly the same as if you parallel a split-coil pickup. Either way, the dummy coil will change the tone in essentially the same way that a split-coil pickup would have...which is why manufacturers just use split-coil pickups.)

In related news, stacked-coil "noiseless pickups" are often just single coil pickups with their own dummy coil attached to the bottom.

There's no free lunch in physics!

Early basses had to have the neck removed for adjustment. Not sure how they ever got the neck relief settings right.

All Fender's early instruments, bass and guitar, had truss adjust on the neck heel. Measure, disassemble, guess, reassemble, and hope you're close.
IIRC this is because the necks were made of one piece of wood (no separate fingerboard), which was routed from the back to add the truss rod (thus the "skunk stripe", glued in afterward). For headstock truss access, you need to use a separate fingerboard that's glued on after the truss rod is installed.

Gibson was smart enough to put the truss adjuster at the headstock, but not smart enough to add a volute or a scarf joint so that their headstocks didn't snap off in a light breeze.

 

[bucephylus]

Because adding a dummy coil doubles the inductance of the pickup, which is exactly what would happen if you just made a split-coil pickup in the first place...and which will lower the resonant frequency by the same amount, thus losing the same amount of high end.

(If you parallel the dummy coil, the effect on tone is exactly the same as if you parallel a split-coil pickup. Either way, the dummy coil will change the tone in essentially the same way that a split-coil pickup would have...which is why manufacturers just use split-coil pickups.)

In related news, stacked-coil "noiseless pickups" are often just single coil pickups with their own dummy coil attached to the bottom.

I believe the Alembic circuit is different. In the case of the stacked and split configurations, the 60 Hz induced signal is eliminated by physically duplicating the sensing coil inductance with equivalent and opposite turns in the cancelling coil, thus doubling the pickup inductance as stated. The Alembic circuit achieves the same result by signal summation following a signal gain stage, and uses far fewer turns in the cancellation coil. The Alembic approach makes the preamp circuitry a bit more complex, but avoids the pickup impedance issue you described for the split or stacked design.

Essentially, the Alembic solution uses circuitry, whereas the pickup architecture uses a direct physical impedance matching. They are different. If you spend a bit of time with either the Series I or Series II instruments, you will immediately hear the difference.

 

[JimmyM]

I believe the Alembic circuit is different. In the case of the stacked and split configurations, the 60 Hz induced signal is eliminated by physically duplicating the sensing coil inductance with equivalent and opposite turns in the cancelling coil, thus doubling the pickup inductance as stated. The Alembic circuit achieves the same result by signal summation following a signal gain stage, and uses far fewer turns in the cancellation coil. The Alembic approach makes the preamp circuitry a bit more complex, but avoids the pickup impedance issue you described for the split or stacked design.

Essentially, the Alembic solution uses circuitry, whereas the pickup architecture uses a direct physical impedance matching. They are different. If you spend a bit of time with either the Series I or Series II instruments, you will immediately hear the difference.

That sounds similar to what EMG does, though they don't incorporate a separate dummy coil but do it in the pickup itself, am I is right?

 

[DJ Bebop]

(NOTE: Yes, I have way too much time on my hands at the moment. I've been under the weather so don't be hatin'.)

As low tech as I can appear sometimes, I'm not all against tech. I'm glad it exists and I find a lot of it useful, and it makes me happy to see what may be coming along the horizon. So I'll give a little list of the stuff I think has been truly innovative and impactful to the bass world since the days when Fender, Danelectro, and Gibson were about it for bass choices, then I want to hear yours. Two requests, though...

1. No blatant product bashing.
2. Try to keep it specific to the instrument itself.
3. If you disagree with someone's choices (and you will), that's cool but don't be a jerk about it.

Anyway, here's my list:

---Roundwound, tapewound, and coated strings: DUH!!! Not a fan of tapes or coateds, but they were innovative when they came out.

---Added strings: People have been adding strings to instruments for centuries, but builders have to be creative with technology to build necks that can handle the tension and stay stable on some of these basses, especially since there seems to be no limit to the amount of strings some want.

---Active electronics: Not everyone likes them, and I tend not to use them so much anymore, but they are certainly innovative for their time, and that can't be denied.

---Advances in saddle technology: The bent plate works and works very well if you know how to finesse it, but I would like saddles that are a little less crude than the threaded saddles, and I want them mounted on bent plates. Good luck with that in today's market but a guy can dream...

---Hipshot Bass Xtender: I was a latecomer to them, but I love them. I find it crazy how the head of Hipshot was able to design something that you'd think has no right to work if you look at it, but it works incredibly well if you follow directions.

---Kahler Bass Whammy: Kind of a frivolous choice, I admit. Some folks love them, some folks think they're stupid. But they were the first one ever made that stays in tune, and though I don't want any more basses with them, I'm glad to have the one I have. And I've found (read: stolen) some cool uses for it that aren't just divebombs, though divebombs are fun.

---Pickups that convert string tones to synth/digital: Wish it was better than using a keyboard, but it's been improving since the early Roland synth guitars, and it opens bassists and guitarists up to the creative possibilities that were only possible with keyboards before.

Everything else that's happened, I tend to believe are variations on themes that came before, have dubious or unproven claims about what they do, or fall into the category of "Good idea on paper."

Feel free to add your own thoughts and nitpick mine, but don't make me come over there and straighten you kids out while I'm trying to play my banjo!

Gizmotron® LLC Videos

 

[bucephylus]

Audere Audio did a dummy coil in the control cavity design that is awesome but it was discontinued because it never caught on. Devon is doing something similar by using an extra actual pickup that is away from the strings. Hope to see that catch on.

I guess most of us just stick with him canceling pickups because it’s simpler and the better ones sound great.

Correct. I believe the Audere circuitry is what Pat was using, IIRC. The “never caught on “ part is the unfortunate bit; because, as @spatters correctly pointed out, the physical alternatives end up causing other issues.

The Alembic / Audere solution is the correct technical answer. Witness the multiple threads on TB holding fast to single coil pickups, due to their inherently more open character. The real reason that the dummy cancellation design isn’t more prevalent is that it is slightly more expensive and not as much plug and play. In $700 instruments, all of that makes sense. In $7000 instruments, that reasoning is a bit more of a head scratcher. And, I believe a big part of the issue is that players are just uninformed for the simple reason that most just never get their hands on an instrument with the proper circuitry.

 

[bucephylus]

That sounds similar to what EMG does, though they don't incorporate a separate dummy coil but do it in the pickup itself, am I is right?

I confess to not being familiar with the EMG active pickups. You could be correct.

 

[JimmyM]

Gizmotron® LLC Videos

God, I was hoping someone would bring this up! I was a huge 10cc fan long before they had hits in America, and Lol Creme was listed as playing the Gizmo on some songs. Sounded badass and he used it with effects combinations that made for some amazing sounds. Had no idea what the Gizmo was at the time but I had a feeling it would be cool, and it was. Too bad they were so unreliable.

 

[andy67]

Manufacturing and quality control processes have improved dramatically over the last 40 years. It was really difficult to buy an entry level bass as a 14 year old in 81’ that was near the quality and price range of Yamaha, Cort, Squier, Ibanez etc.

 

[JimmyM]

Correct. I believe the Audere circuitry is what Pat was using, IIRC. The “never caught on “ part is the unfortunate bit; because, as @spatters correctly pointed out, the physical alternatives end up causing other issues.

The Alembic / Audere solution is the correct technical answer. Witness the multiple threads on TB holding fast to single coil pickups, due to their inherently more open character. The real reason that the dummy cancellation design isn’t more prevalent is that it is slightly more expensive and not as much plug and play. In $700 instruments, all of that makes sense. In $7000 instruments, that reasoning is a bit more of a head scratcher. And, I believe a big part of the issue is that players are just uninformed for the simple reason that most just never get their hands on an instrument with the proper circuitry.

Maybe, but I think it's more that there were simpler solutions that cost less, and the 60 cycle hum issue is somewhat exaggerated with single coil pickups. I've played many Alembics and they're great basses, but honestly, the single coil issue is really only an issue on rare occasions so it's like reinforcing a cardboard box with cement...overkill

 

[DJ Bebop]

God, I was hoping someone would bring this up! I was a huge 10cc fan long before they had hits in America, and Lol Creme was listed as playing the Gizmo on some songs. Sounded badass and he used it with effects combinations that made for some amazing sounds. Had no idea what the Gizmo was at the time but I had a feeling it would be cool, and it was. Too bad they were so unreliable.

I almost bought the first gen one back in the 70s. Didn't have the money so I tore up my bass with pickups and a defret instead, the one I've posted ad nauseam here on TB

Now picture that bass with a Gizmotron on it, as well

Still might happen scene they've brought it back

 

[JimmyM]

I almost bought the first gen one back in the 70s. Didn't have the money so I tore up my bass with pickups and a defret instead, the one I've posted ad nauseam here on TB

Now picture that bass with a Gizmotron on it, as well

Still might happen scene they've brought it back

I just watched the installation video...hard pass for me!

However, this is not out of the realm of possibility:

Heet E-Bow. Never really caught on with bassists but Michael Manring did some cool stuff with E-Bows. Still pretty popular with guitarists, though, and I may just get one to see what I can come up with.

 

[BlueTalon]

This just blows my mind. Incomprehensible.

It's like watching the hands of a virtuoso piano player or harp player, except that your mind already knows what to expect to see when watching the hands of a virtuoso piano player or harp player.