Tech advances in basses since the early days

[BlueTalon]

I'm asking the wrong person? You're the one who said,

"What's the main difference between a nut, a bridge, and a fret? There, you'll find your answer Remember, the geometry of each fret is different, in this system, depending on where it sits"

as if you know what you're talking about.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Nothing in your quote tells me anything definitive.

If the frets are curved based on a centerpoint beyond the nut itself (and they have to be), then the nut needs to be curved as well.

Thanks for your insights and your questions but I fear that you're asking the wrong person. I'll keep thinking about it. Stay tuned
​

 

[Tom Bomb]

I'm asking the wrong person? You're the one who said,

"What's the main difference between a nut, a bridge, and a fret? There, you'll find your answer Remember, the geometry of each fret is different, in this system, depending on where it sits"

as if you know what you're talking about.

Forgive me. I'm having a bad day One thing you can take to the bank. All my nuts and all the bridges are not conforming to the frets. That is, they're dead straight except for the usual compensation at the big end

Good luck with your research, sir. I'm sure you'll work it out, in time.
​

 

[Davbassdude]

Straplok! How could I forget that? Not the end of the world if you don't use them, but definitely innovative.

My Ric has one!

 

[JimmyM]

​

Forgive me. I'm having a bad day One thing you can take to the bank. All my nuts and all the bridges are not conforming to the frets. That is, they're dead straight except for the usual compensation at the big end

Good luck with your research, sir. I'm sure you'll work it out, in time.​

HAHAHA! Reminds me of this quote I heard Edward Van Halen's tech say (paraphrasing)..."We measure everything involved with the guitar using thousandths of an inch, and everything is perfectly aligned. Then we add the one imperfect ingredient...you."

 

[Tom Bomb]

HAHAHA! Reminds me of this quote I heard Edward Van Halen's tech say (paraphrasing)..."We measure everything involved with the guitar using thousandths of an inch, and everything is perfectly aligned. Then we add the one imperfect ingredient...you."

I strongly resemble that, mate. Seems I'm in good company Out of the blue, here's some more drivel, to stress the pointy-heads. One may also look at it this way

Circle Fretting System geometric shift illustration: … ⎮ ) ) ) ) ) ) )⎮, exaggerating again, for effect. So, the longer the fret, the greater the arch.

Happens regardless. Damn straight Bit of a curve-ball, I know
​

 

[JimmyM]

I'm asking the wrong person? You're the one who said,

"What's the main difference between a nut, a bridge, and a fret? There, you'll find your answer Remember, the geometry of each fret is different, in this system, depending on where it sits"

as if you know what you're talking about.

BTW, I know what he's talking about. The nut doesn't need to be changed because it's OK to have a fixed starting point for all notes. The frets only need to be bent ever so slightly to compensate for the angle of the strings going down the neck, and then the bridge saddles set the intonation.

 

[BlueTalon]

BTW, I know what he's talking about. The nut doesn't need to be changed because it's OK to have a fixed starting point for all notes. The frets only need to be bent ever so slightly to compensate for the angle of the strings going down the neck, and then the bridge saddles set the intonation.

They don't need to be bent at all. But to emphasize my point about the nut, what would the difference be between having a straight nut with the curves starting at the first fret, and having a straight nut and three straight frets and having the curved frets start at the fourth fret?

 

[Iridescentone]

I wouldn't know where to start. Some innovations were small and incremental.

But one bass design took a quantum leap forward by successfully addressing multiple issues with a single stroke IMO.

That was the original L-2. It lived up to all the hype and delivered on all the promises.

Ironically, it faded into obscurity. Too good, too fast?

 

[JimmyM]

They don't need to be bent at all.

Of course not. We also don't need Buzz Feiten compensating nuts, nor do we need several small frets doing the work of one long one across the fretboard. To me they're solutions looking for problems most of us don't have. But we have people building them and buying them for whatever reason.

But to emphasize my point about the nut, what would the difference be between having a straight nut with the curves starting at the first fret, and having a straight nut and three straight frets and having the curved frets start at the fourth fret?

You lost me with that question. Maybe the geometry doesn't require the first 3 frets to be curved? I really don't know. But like that Van Halen tech says a few quotes up...

 

[JimmyM]

To me it’s active electronics by far.
I also don’t understand the dislike. It’s like comparing a high fidelity system with a graphic equalizer to a first stereo with only a tone control that your parents bought for you on your 12th birthday.

I own passive and active and like them both.

I get it...9v batteries powering the controls aren't going to sound like awesome tube preamps. However, I've still got a couple basses with EMG actives and I do like them for certain things, and active systems do give you a lot of room to sculpt sounds you like right within the bass on the fly without being moored to your amp. And there's no shock hazard since they don't need to be grounded to the bridge.

Now what I don't get are people using effects powered by 9v batteries, many of them preamps, and complaining about active preamps

 

[JimmyM]

I wouldn't know where to start. Some innovations were small and incremental.

But one bass design took a quantum leap forward by successfully addressing multiple issues with a single stroke IMO.

That was the original L-2. It lived up to all the hype and delivered on all the promises.

Ironically, it faded into obscurity. Too good, too fast?

Nope, too expensive and hard to continue producing combined with less of a demand for the L2 as he added more traditional bodies and fashions changed.

But yep, it was a game changer that opened up the world of composite materials being used in basses. And the TransTrem is absolute genius how you can set it and lock it at different tunings and it comes back every time.

Just wish they didn't require special Steinberger double ball end strings. I think the companies he licensed the design to or who "borrowed" the design did a better job with strings in clamiping nuts. Easier to buy strings these days.

 

[Iridescentone]

Nope, too expensive and hard to continue producing combined with less of a demand for the L2 as he added more traditional bodies and fashions changed.

But yep, it was a game changer that opened up the world of composite materials being used in basses. And the TransTrem is absolute genius how you can set it and lock it at different tunings and it comes back every time.

Just wish they didn't require special Steinberger double ball end strings. I think the companies he licensed the design to or who "borrowed" the design did a better job with strings in clamiping nuts. Easier to buy strings these days.

They didn't require double ball end strings, at least mine didn't. I ordered mine in '81 after jumping through a few hoops to get one. It took 3 months to finally arrive, even tho it was a rush order. It was serial #082. It came with a 'claw' clamp to be used with ordinary strings, which worked perfectly. Once I wore out the OEM double ballers I only used regular Boomers afterwards.

The price. When I ordered, the MSRP was $1200. By the time it arrived 3 months, and two price increases later, the MSRP was $1400. I got it for dealer cost...$700 plus 1981 Illinois sales tax and UPS shipping. Long story but that was my reward for hooking Steinberg up with a Chicago area shop to take on the line, which the 'berger folks were eager to do.

 

[BlueTalon]

"They don't need to be bent at all." -- Of course not. We also don't need Buzz Feiten compensating nuts, nor do we need several small frets doing the work of one long one across the fretboard. To me they're solutions looking for problems most of us don't have. But we have people building them and buying them for whatever reason.

Hey, I'm all for innovation. It's the beauty of a free market that people can create new things that many of us don't want but some of us do.

"But to emphasize my point about the nut, what would the difference be between having a straight nut with the curves starting at the first fret, and having a straight nut and three straight frets and having the curved frets start at the fourth fret?" -- You lost me with that question. Maybe the geometry doesn't require the first 3 frets to be curved? I really don't know.

Basically, the curved frets are an attempt to get each string to cross the frets at exactly 90 degrees, and to equalize the string span between the frets, so that the distance is the same for each string at any given fret. (With straight frets, the angle is almost 90 degrees, but not quite; and the span for each string at each fret is almost the same, but not quite.) The arc of each fret is defined by a center point -- the place where the strings would converge if they extended in a straight line far beyond the nut. That is the geometry.

Assume the premise is valid and there are benefits to be gained from doing this. The point of my question was that, given the premise, it makes no sense to have some frets straight and some frets curved. They should all be curved. And if there's a zero fret, it should be curved. And if there is no zero fret, the nut should also be curved.

Personally, I'd like to see a couple more alternatives to the standard fret geometry, at least to try out. One would be fanned frets, where the first fret is 90 degrees and the frets start fanning from there. (I know one TB-er made such a bass. I'd love to give it a spin.) Another would be the squiggle True Temperament frets, which I have seen on guitar but not on bass.