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Techniques to deal with fatigue while playing demanding/technical songs?

sg101

sg101

Oct 7, 2014
84
19
Washington
#1
Hi, I'm new here, but that's for another time.

My goal is to play this song from start to finish:

Or to be able to play other songs like that, but my problem is fatigue. I've seen these guys play it live and I don't know how they do it. After about a two minutes, I start to get hot and my fret hand starts to hurt, so I'll have to stop briefly and continue after maybe a 10-15 second break.

I'm playing this on tree trunk of a six stringer and my hands are medium sized, or relatively average for my age, which is 17. I have no problem with playing most of the sections of this song, it's just being able to play it without pause that's the problem for me. Is there anything I can do to get less fatigued? I'm trying to cram as much skill into my playing as possible right now.
 
#2
I think it's about learning to relax. It's not just a mantra, however. When you train your muscles for coordination, you're training your brain to contract just the muscles that are needed or the motion, while the opposing muscles relax. When you make a fist, your muscles are pulling against each other, creating a tense but relatively strong posture. You obviously cannot hold a tight fist tightly for an indefinite period. Imagine instead holding a delicately thin piece of paper between your thumb and forefinger. If you are tense, the paper will disintegrate. You apply just enough force to hold it, and no more.

Practice playing slowly and pay attention to the tension in both hands. If you're tense, remind yourself to relax and only apply enough force to make the note properly. The force required to play bass is much less than is immediately apparent. Train your muscles to apply the minimum amount of force needed.

Sometimes, if you're not accurate in your technique, you'll get odd noises or weak sound, and you'll want to dig in to correct it. This could be a buzzing from the frets if you're not fingering at just the right point (just behind the frets). Or you might not get a solid sound from your plucking hand because of angle or movement during plucking. Make sure to correct the technique by training your hands to move the way you want them to, while still being relaxed, rather than digging in to fix problems like this.

This requires playing slowly to build the muscle memory that you'll need to play fast.

There is a role that conditioning plays in endurance, but IMHO this comes later. Develop a relaxed technique first, and then the more you practice it, the better you will be at playing relaxed (and later with speed and accuracy). If you skip this, then you'll be practicing playing harder and more tense, and you'll strengthen the habit of playing tense, which will either lead to an inevitable plateau or else a setback due to injury.

Good Luck
 
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#3
sg101 said:
Hi, I'm new here, but that's for another time.

My goal is to play this song from start to finish:

Or to be able to play other songs like that, but my problem is fatigue. I've seen these guys play it live and I don't know how they do it. After about a two minutes, I start to get hot and my fret hand starts to hurt, so I'll have to stop briefly and continue after maybe a 10-15 second break.

I'm playing this on tree trunk of a six stringer and my hands are medium sized, or relatively average for my age, which is 17. I have no problem with playing most of the sections of this song, it's just being able to play it without pause that's the problem for me. Is there anything I can do to get less fatigued? I'm trying to cram as much skill into my playing as possible right now.
Click to expand...

That's a big goal for your age. You could skip all the gymnastics and use a pick.
 
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#4
Practice until you bleed, then add crazy glue and practice more.

Try coated strings or StringEase to help with blisters.

Get one of those 1980's spring grip exercisers (for tricepts)

Get 10 packages of playdoh ..not playdoh...um...AH SILLY PUTTY!
Work the putty all day at school.
(I learned the silly putty trick from a physical therapist)

Find places where you can rest in the song and flex your hand out, Shake it out like a swimmer.

Go to GNC and buy a creatine suppliment. You are building muscles, the same as any athlete, what keeps them from cramping will do the same for you.

Alternate fingers and pick use, they use different muscles. Try a bunch of different ways of striking the strings, use the backs of your nails, anything to get rest stops where the song is less intense.

Don't give up, play thru the burn, you will get farther each day, remember tho muscles take time to build up, you need to rest and alternate days for athletic playing like that.

Trippy song.
 
#5
Dream Theater is awesome but it can be hard to decipher the bass, especially for a teenager. If you haven't already, imo you should check out some earlier RUSH. I'd start with 'Hemispheres'. It's a little harder to play imo, but at least you can hear it and every bass line on that record is like an anthem.
 
#6
Thanks for the help, everyone who's posted :)

OldDirtyBassist said:
That's a big goal for your age. You could skip all the gymnastics and use a pick.
Click to expand...

I get the age thing a lot when people see me play songs like the one in the OP. The problem for me using a pick is it getting jammed up in the thicker strings when I play things like the sixteenth sextuplets near the 6:00 mark. I usually add in my ring finger if I'm playing fast riffs like that. I'm gonna definitely try my hand at Rush though.
 
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#7
AH, I just re read your post OP, so the trouble is in the FRETTING hand?

Try lining your thumb up with your second finger, keeping the thumb just below the middle of the neck's centerline. That position should help with cramping, may feel awkward at first (especially if you tend to let your thumb go around, but if you are disciplined about it it makes for faster fretting imo.
 
#8
""when I play things like the sixteenth sextuplets near the 6:00 mark""

I dont even know what that means! Sounds like drummer speak. math...numbers...

I was taught as follows.

1. place left hand first finger on string.
2. pluck string with first and second fingers of right hand.
repeat.
 
#9
flameworker said:
""when I play things like the sixteenth sextuplets near the 6:00 mark""

I dont even know what that means! Sounds like drummer speak. math...numbers...

I was taught as follows.

1. place left hand first finger on string.
2. pluck string with first and second fingers of right hand.
repeat.
Click to expand...

a sextuplets is a group of 6 16th note

but as any rythm you could see it twice as fast with much less complex rythm figure
 
#15
Reading the comments the OP received, I hope the ones below are complementary to the advice already offered:
  • The relative size of your instrument to your body/hands plays a role. There are two main "dimensions" to it, which are
    • the distance between neck and bridge ("standard" basses are around 35", but you have multiple available options between 32" and 36". It is expected that large basses require your hand to "travel more" and the string tension is higher... if your bass is 35" long you may want to consider to try a shorter bass (33"?) and see if that helps you.
    • the distance between strings also is a big factor. Probably the most used is 19mm, but there are lots of people using 18, 17.5, 17, 16.5 and 16mm distance between strings. Again, less distance for your hand to travel around between notes.
  • The action: distance between the string and the frets/neck. If the strings are too high, each note will require an extra amount of energy that increases your fatigue. I will check that the neck is perfectly straight and then work with the saddles until your have low action that will definitively feel more comfortable.
  • Nut: most people don't even notice its existence, but a too low/too high nut will affect your bass playability.
  • Fret/finger position: even if you don't notice it, while you play you automatically adjust the position of your fingers to get an even sound. If you press too hard, you get out of tune. If you press too soft, your string buzzes. The brain will constantly tweak your movements "looking" for the good spots. The best bet is to play as close to the fret (bridge side) as you can, which will give you fastest/easier sound quality with less effort.
  • Technique: if you wear your bass way too low, with your wrists always in angle, you add additional stress to your hands. Wear the bass where your fretting hand feels totally comfortable and can attack the notes without much effort. Try to keep your thumb always towards the center of your neck as you travel around it.
I would not recommend doing hand exercises (my personal advice, lots of people do), as there is a relationship between muscular strength/volume and flexibility/ability. I would stay with bass patterns and bass exercises as your main routine, and my only "instrument related" physical exercises would be to strengthen the my upper torso to endure wearing the instrument for hours.

I hope these help
 
#16
I come from the light touch school of playing, where you let the amp do the work.

Light touch, low action, light strings, big ass amplifier with tons of power. You can still have an aggressive tone without killing yourself. Its all about how you touch the strings.

Staying relaxed is the key, you muscle down, you lose.

Playing fast comes from practicing slowly and perfectly. If you can't play if perfectly, slow it to a tempo where you can and practice at that tempo. Practice does not make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. - Vince Lombardi
 
#18
My band plays a lot of Dream Theater (Dance of Eternity, Metropolis, Erotomania, Ytse Jam), and fatigue is a real problem (especially in Dance of Eternity until the break in the middle).

1. What works for me is to use my plucking hand ring finger to play quarter or eighth notes in places to give my index and middle fingers a break. My three finger plucking technique isn't as developed as I'd like it, so I will alternate between my plucking fingers (middle and index) and my ring finger (for less demanding parts). Plus I just shake out my hands as often as I can.
2. Also, be sure you're not digging in too much too often. This is a constant problem for me, because I get into the music and play harder than I need to, and then we come to some crazy passage and I'm out of gas. I remind myself to play lighter and let the amp do its job.
3. Minimize travel - by that, insure that you keep the distance between the place your plucking hand is and the string you want to pluck as minimal as possible. For really fast stuff (Dance of Eternity's bass solo), I rest my thumb on the E string (I play 6 string basses) and reach to the A to play the first part, and then as the solo progresses I move my hand to the string directly above the one I'm playing. It's good advice in general, but especially crucial in demanding, insane, complex stuff.

To sum up: 1. Use a finger other than your main plucking ones to hit quarter or eighth notes whenever possible, giving your index and middle fingers a break; 2. Don't dig in, 3. Minimize travel.

Works for me.
 
#19
Thanks for the advice everyone

rtav said:
My band plays a lot of Dream Theater (Dance of Eternity, Metropolis, Erotomania, Ytse Jam), and fatigue is a real problem (especially in Dance of Eternity until the break in the middle).

1. What works for me is to use my plucking hand ring finger to play quarter or eighth notes in places to give my index and middle fingers a break. My three finger plucking technique isn't as developed as I'd like it, so I will alternate between my plucking fingers (middle and index) and my ring finger (for less demanding parts). Plus I just shake out my hands as often as I can.
2. Also, be sure you're not digging in too much too often. This is a constant problem for me, because I get into the music and play harder than I need to, and then we come to some crazy passage and I'm out of gas. I remind myself to play lighter and let the amp do its job.
3. Minimize travel - by that, insure that you keep the distance between the place your plucking hand is and the string you want to pluck as minimal as possible. For really fast stuff (Dance of Eternity's bass solo), I rest my thumb on the E string (I play 6 string basses) and reach to the A to play the first part, and then as the solo progresses I move my hand to the string directly above the one I'm playing. It's good advice in general, but especially crucial in demanding, insane, complex stuff.

To sum up: 1. Use a finger other than your main plucking ones to hit quarter or eighth notes whenever possible, giving your index and middle fingers a break; 2. Don't dig in, 3. Minimize travel.

Works for me.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I never really took a close look at my playing when pulling off the hard parts. Goes for all of the other advice I've gotten. I've never really kept track of my breathing or pressure on the strings when playing. I have a pretty well developed 3 finger picking technique which only took me 2 months of vigorous practicing, and using it more in play.

The Dance of Eternity is a killer song. I can play every part of it excluding the solo which I have to learn. Most riffs are easy and some are moderate to hard. The trilling part the entire band does near the 4 minute mark (?) is also hard for me to sustain. I don't know if it's me or if it's the lack of a compressor to keep the sustain.
 

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