You're kidding, right? Piano players face this same problem of RSI one hell of a lot. The composer Robert Schumann's performing career was destroyed because of extreme tendonitis.
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Tendonitis - Please help, depression setting in...
- Thread starter honza992
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You're kidding, right? Piano players face this same problem of RSI one hell of a lot. The composer Robert Schumann's performing career was destroyed because of extreme tendonitis.
See if you can get your doc to give you VOLTAREN gel. It's a topical steroidal that I use. I have arthritis in my left thumb and use it before every practice or gig. It helps, and it's non-invasive. Otherwise, see a hand specialist.
For those of you that are unfamiliar with the Graston technique check their site out here www.grastontechnique.com. You can also find a few videos on youtube of people having it done if you are interested.
My own symptoms have been mild forearm/wrist tightness and tightness in my right thumb, and some tightness in my neck/trap area where I wear my strap. The guy I have been seeing teaches this technique around the country and has resolved many once thought to be chronic tendon and muscle issues in a matter of weeks! It may take 12 sessions or so but it seems to work well. Insurance covers it.
They are bascially breaking down the scar tissue that develops in tendons by creating "microtrauma" (scraping it away) and your body produces fibroblasts which heal the tendon and soft tissue correctly. Check it out. It may work for your problem.
My own symptoms have been mild forearm/wrist tightness and tightness in my right thumb, and some tightness in my neck/trap area where I wear my strap. The guy I have been seeing teaches this technique around the country and has resolved many once thought to be chronic tendon and muscle issues in a matter of weeks! It may take 12 sessions or so but it seems to work well. Insurance covers it.
They are bascially breaking down the scar tissue that develops in tendons by creating "microtrauma" (scraping it away) and your body produces fibroblasts which heal the tendon and soft tissue correctly. Check it out. It may work for your problem.
Prevention is where it's at!
I had nasty tendonitis in college (shedding 10 hours a day will do that...) and had wonderful results stretching, refining my technique, and removing acidic foods from my diet.
Here's a great one for forearm/ wrist tendonitis-
put your hand on a wall, fingers at shoulder level. Slowly turn away from that hand, leaving it planted on the wall, with arm straight. This will stretch fingertips to shoulder. Just this was enough to fix most of my pain.
Also, straighten both your wrists more.
With good technique (teacher?) there's no reason anyone should play with pain.
I had nasty tendonitis in college (shedding 10 hours a day will do that...) and had wonderful results stretching, refining my technique, and removing acidic foods from my diet.
Here's a great one for forearm/ wrist tendonitis-
put your hand on a wall, fingers at shoulder level. Slowly turn away from that hand, leaving it planted on the wall, with arm straight. This will stretch fingertips to shoulder. Just this was enough to fix most of my pain.
Also, straighten both your wrists more.
With good technique (teacher?) there's no reason anyone should play with pain.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
Dude, do not ignore tendinitis!! Here is a warning if you think you can ignore this problem:
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=508846
VOLTAREN gel is great.. i've used it a lot in the past, especially since it's anti-inflammatory but be careful - it will take the pain away.. and you need to be very careful you don't push past your barriers, as the pain is a warning signal to your brain.
I had to stop playing for three months from tendonitis in my first year at uni studying music.. what i suggest is getting to an OT or physical therapist that deals with trigger point therapy / deep tissue treatment ASAP. That has been my road to recovery. My first bout was about 5 years ago, and recently (last year) i had another flare up that i'm still recovering from. In fact, in the last few weeks it's been particularly bad. However, it IS manageable, if you listen to and look after your body and go see an experienced and trained teacher who can help point out if you have any technique issues, and show you how to fix them.
Good luck! feel free to PM me if you have any other questions, as i have been dealing with this stuff for years now and i'm a full time working bassist. I can't afford to stop playing, as it's my sole source of income.
Andy.
I had to stop playing for three months from tendonitis in my first year at uni studying music.. what i suggest is getting to an OT or physical therapist that deals with trigger point therapy / deep tissue treatment ASAP. That has been my road to recovery. My first bout was about 5 years ago, and recently (last year) i had another flare up that i'm still recovering from. In fact, in the last few weeks it's been particularly bad. However, it IS manageable, if you listen to and look after your body and go see an experienced and trained teacher who can help point out if you have any technique issues, and show you how to fix them.
Good luck! feel free to PM me if you have any other questions, as i have been dealing with this stuff for years now and i'm a full time working bassist. I can't afford to stop playing, as it's my sole source of income.
Andy.
You can get over this. I dealt with this and have come away with the opinion that a lot of it is over-rough technique, playing style, and posture. Other things, such as diet are definitely a part of the picture as well.
Mainly, I would say that waiting for six months or so is just too long to wait! Definitely ask around and find a doctor who works with the players at the nearest major symphony orchestra.
Twelve years ago I went off for six weeks and it was the darkest time for me. Dark! By coincidence, a sax player told me about his wife who was a physiologist into pain reduction techniques. Relaxation from the shoulders on down is a big part of it. Here is a stretch they gave me that when added to a lighter pizzicato technique cured me in a very short time:
Stand relaxed with your arms out to the side, palms down, and parallel to the floor, like a human "T". Then you must start to slowly "stretch" your finger tips farther out as they remain parallel to the floor with your arms. It takes a little imagination, but soon you will feel tingles from the stretch in your arms, mainly in your elbows and up through your hands to your finger tips. Just don't over do it. A more advanced part of the stretch is to then slowly, slowly, slowly turn your palms upward and when they are facing the ceiling, slowly, slowly, slowly start to tilt your hands/fingertips to the floor, but just an inch or two because you will really feel the tendons stretch then.
But again, the right physiologists are very smart about this type of thing!
You can do it.
K
ps Hey RED, +1 on the MSM. MSM is a form of assimilable sulfur that was finally synthesized and patented by a researcher from the University of Washington in the mid eighties...Awesome stuff! Sulfur facilitates proper cell-membrane permeability thereby helping the body to rid itself of toxins and keeps all joints, tendons, etc lubricated.
Mainly, I would say that waiting for six months or so is just too long to wait! Definitely ask around and find a doctor who works with the players at the nearest major symphony orchestra.
Twelve years ago I went off for six weeks and it was the darkest time for me. Dark! By coincidence, a sax player told me about his wife who was a physiologist into pain reduction techniques. Relaxation from the shoulders on down is a big part of it. Here is a stretch they gave me that when added to a lighter pizzicato technique cured me in a very short time:
Stand relaxed with your arms out to the side, palms down, and parallel to the floor, like a human "T". Then you must start to slowly "stretch" your finger tips farther out as they remain parallel to the floor with your arms. It takes a little imagination, but soon you will feel tingles from the stretch in your arms, mainly in your elbows and up through your hands to your finger tips. Just don't over do it. A more advanced part of the stretch is to then slowly, slowly, slowly turn your palms upward and when they are facing the ceiling, slowly, slowly, slowly start to tilt your hands/fingertips to the floor, but just an inch or two because you will really feel the tendons stretch then.
But again, the right physiologists are very smart about this type of thing!
You can do it.
K
ps Hey RED, +1 on the MSM. MSM is a form of assimilable sulfur that was finally synthesized and patented by a researcher from the University of Washington in the mid eighties...Awesome stuff! Sulfur facilitates proper cell-membrane permeability thereby helping the body to rid itself of toxins and keeps all joints, tendons, etc lubricated.
I hope this hasn't already been said, but I'm to lazy at the moment to read the entire thread. I had tendonitis pretty bad in both my wrist (from electric) and my elbow (from bowing on upright). The main reason tendonitis (and eventually carpal tunnel) occurs is because of a repeated stress injury. Usually this occurs on the right wrist from plucking while the wrist is very bent. When I say bent wrist I mean that I anchored my forearm on the body of the bass and kind of hung my hand there, and just bent my wrist done to reach the strings. Some people don't have problems with this, but some do. I played with a pretty bent wrist for about 5 years, then I got tendonitis. I relearned to play with my wrist completely straight so that the tendons have a clear path from my elbow (which is actually how far they go back) all the way through my wrist to my fingers. My plucking angle and arm angle are very similar to Gary Willis's now. If you go on youtube you can find an old instructional video he never released from the 80's that explains his wrist angle. This straight wrist technique felt awkward at first, but it soon became completely natural. This straight wrist angle actually allows you to have more strength, endurance, and dexterity in your fingers. To help myself get used to playing with a straight wrist I actually wore a wrist brace for a little while.
Hope that helps, PM if you have any specific questions,
Proton
Hope that helps, PM if you have any specific questions,
Proton
Proper posture at all times
A light touch - relax
Exercise - weight training, yoga
See a qualified chiro/PT
A good bed and enough sleep
A light touch - relax
Exercise - weight training, yoga
See a qualified chiro/PT
A good bed and enough sleep
To the OP and everyone else suffering from this - the one thing I found that helps is a proper warm up. Light shaking of the arms and hands, lightly swinging the arms/shoulders - anything to get the blood flowing. Along the same lines of athletes warming up before doing marathons/sprinting/etc.
A friend bought me one of these little fellows and it really helps open your arms and hands up to get ready for playing:[Invalid or Expired Link Removed])
A friend bought me one of these little fellows and it really helps open your arms and hands up to get ready for playing:[Invalid or Expired Link Removed])
I agree with everything but "weight training".. In fact doing weights was exactly what brought on my second bout of tendonitis - that i've been slowly recovering from for the last 9 months or so.
I definitely agree exercise is a great idea, keeping in shape, and especially keeping hydrated seems to have helped a lot... however, doing weights puts your wrists / forearms under MUCH more strain and stress that playing bass, and if you've already got problems, weights is probably the worst thing you could do.
My hot tips for tendonitis management are (and avoiding in first place):
- (obviously) listen to your body, you need to be totally aware of any discomfort your putting your wrists under. Not only when playing bass, but when typing, carrying shopping bags, lifting gear and equipment etc etc.
- Voltaren Emulgel is a great pain killer / anti inflammatory cream. i only used it at nights though, and only when pain was really bad or i had a long gig and sore limbs and wanted to sleep. sometimes just taking the pain away actually helps you to relax and take your mind off it. Excessive worrying is not healthy, i've found in the past its good to do things totally no music sometimes just to take my mind off it. Never the use the cream before paying as it will numb the area and you will lose some of that pain awareness. I also iced my forearms, on suggestion from my OT, to stop swelling after gigs when i got my second flare up. I think that helped, helped take away the pain too.I actually tried prescription anti-inflammatorys, but the voltaren gel worked better for me.
- Stay hydrated! excessive booze consumption not recommended (i've definitely figured that one out the hard way!)... but seriously, drink plenty of water, makes a massive difference.
- Posture. This has been mentioned above.. but i just wanted to say this is a big area i have been working on in the recovery from my second flare up. Mainly i've been working on core strength exercises (google it..) to help my posture and keep my back and shoulders straight. I'm not a big guy, but play a heavy bass - so i realised that at some point i had started dropping my left shoulder a bit, inadvertantly causing neck dive issues on the bass, and make it harder on my wrist whilst in the lower positions. (disco grove in F anyone?).
- Technique. this is obvious, but most people don't actually know what to avoid. Keep both wrists as straight as possible at all times. Curl of left hand fingers is good, but don't try to achieve that by getting extra reach by popping that wrist out. Left hand thumb position in a big part of it, and is something i focus on quite a bit with my students. It's hard to help in this area without sitting in a room with you, but i definitely recommend studying with an experienced and trained teacher to let them check out your technique and help spot any issues. Try it even if you think your technique is flawless, you may be mistaken.
- Stay relaxed! most of us play with way too much tension in both hands. drop your shoulders, relax your hands, arms and try to play lightly. This doesn't mean you can't dig in. You can play hard and still remain relaxed..
- There should be no "squeeze" happening between the left hand fingers and thumb. think of your thumb as a pivot point, or to stop your hand from falling away. think of the "strength" needed to pull the strings down coming from the weight of your arm, not from squeezing your hand or fingers together.
- Get good gear and make sure you have plenty of headroom and can hear yourself on gigs. If you can't hear yourself chances are you'll dig in and play too hard, causing unnecessary tension.
- Get some help from an OT or Physio who has experience with trigger point therapy / deep tissue treatment. I was lucky and found someone who is a muso herself, and has successful treated many musos in town. I also bought a book on DIY trigger point therapy ("trigger point therapy workbook") that has helped me self treat myself through massage when it starts to flare up again.
- Stay positive!! With the right attitude and actions you WILL get through this. Do lots of reading, talk to guys and go on forums like this to get good advice. I have done a few posts on this stuff over the years, i could probably dig them up.
Hope that helps and feel free to shoot me through any questions.. i remember it was hard for me when i got my first flare up - so i'm happy to pass on anything i've picked up in the last 4 years or so of (mostly) successful management
All the best and good luck!
Andy.
I should qualify the weight training part. If you are experiencing tendinitis, any weight training regimen should be planned and approved by a physical therapist or doctor. I had trigger finger on and off for years. My PT showed me certain weight exercises to strengthen the muscles in my neck, shoulders, back and arms. No problems since.
butchblack
Life is short. Do good. Find and do what you love.
If I'm wearing my bass too high I'll get some pain in my right wrist. Try lowering your bass so you are playing with a straighter more relaxed wrist It may help
You didn't mention your age.
If you're over forty, you're done. You'll never be well again, though backing way off or stopping altogether for a few years may help. Or not. I quit hand drumming entirely when it started giving me tendinitis near my right elbow seven (7) years ago and it still hurts periodically.
I have other permanent bass-related problems I've adapted my playing style to fit around.
Nothing the orthopedist will do will make a huge amount of difference, except to possibly mess you up worse if you have surgery. Steroids are usually only temporarily effective.
Sorry, but that's how it is if you're dealing with age-related rheumatic degradation coupled with RSIs.
If you can catch the first signs of pain early enough, stopping for a few months and changing the way you play may save your ability to perform, if not in the way you wanted.
There really is no other solution that I'm aware of, and I tried everything that made some semblance of sense. I am a survivor of surgery, the newer, minimally invasive version(no palm cut). Did wonders for me. No downside at all. My right hand was a disaster, but now I play fluidly and easily, like I did when I was 20.
Commreman
Faith, Family, Fitness, and Frets
You didn't mention your age.
If you're over forty, you're done. You'll never be well again, though backing way off or stopping altogether for a few years may help. Or not. I quit hand drumming entirely when it started giving me tendinitis near my right elbow seven (7) years ago and it still hurts periodically.
I have other permanent bass-related problems I've adapted my playing style to fit around.
Nothing the orthopedist will do will make a huge amount of difference, except to possibly mess you up worse if you have surgery. Steroids are usually only temporarily effective.
Sorry, but that's how it is if you're dealing with age-related rheumatic degradation coupled with RSIs.
If you can catch the first signs of pain early enough, stopping for a few months and changing the way you play may save your ability to perform, if not in the way you wanted.
I have to strongly disagree with most of this post, save for the last paragraph. It is complete BS to state categorically that if you are over 40, you're done.
I'm 48. I had the surgery for tendinitis (actually a separated tendon) in my right elbow in January. While I am not 100% yet, I am better than I have been in years, and incrementally improving every day. I also know musicians that have had the wrist surgery, and were performing pain free in a number of weeks. If surgery is your only alternative, do not wait. The problem only gets worse with delay. Following surgery, do your PT and ice down regimen religiously. Also, take the steps to correct the issues in your technique that caused the problem.
A couple other observations
When I had trigger finger, the only thing that healed it was 10 days of COMPLETE rest - no bass, no computer.
Then I started PT. Otherwise surgery would have been required, since I couldn't close my hand.
There are PT hand specialists out there - you bring your bass with you to therapy and they work with you to optimize height and technique to prevent further issues. Might be worth a look.
When I had trigger finger, the only thing that healed it was 10 days of COMPLETE rest - no bass, no computer.
Then I started PT. Otherwise surgery would have been required, since I couldn't close my hand. There are PT hand specialists out there - you bring your bass with you to therapy and they work with you to optimize height and technique to prevent further issues. Might be worth a look.
when i first started playing tennis i would get this in my knuckles, wrist and elbow (tennis elbow) and our coach always told us to either squeeze a tennis ball often or submerge your hand in a bag of rice squeezing the rice and turning your wrist. i did that for 3days and i felt right as rain. my experience seems nothing to the extent of yours but it may help you.
- Oct 7, 2000
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You didn't mention your age.
If you're over forty, you're done. You'll never be well again, though backing way off or stopping altogether for a few years may help. Or not. I quit hand drumming entirely when it started giving me tendinitis near my right elbow seven (7) years ago and it still hurts periodically.
Didn't read this entire thread, but caught this and the attitutude here both saddens me and makes me mad. I can't tell you how many times, for how many different ailments, for how many different career moves, decisions, etc. people have given me this BS about. I feel truly sorry for people who believe that after a certain age there's just no winning, and the saddest part is that for them it's absolutely true. They're done. Because that's what they believe.
EDIT: Got rid of a long detailed rant. Hope the above makes sense without it.
