Double Bass Tenor clef

[damonsmith]

Good Evening,

I was wondering if there was a consensus regarding a reliable method for teaching tenor clef to bassists? I'm a student on double bass (though I teach plenty of electric students as a side job) and have been running into it often enough that I've been curious. It looks pretty Greek to me; I know the concept of what it means (where C is) but it slows me down when I run into it.

Thanks in advance.

It is covered in Simandl book two, but I like Petracchi + solo rep. for upper register studies. Most contemporary methods push treble clef instead.

The problem is, as you say, it does come up and it slows you down.
Here is my story with it: I was in a music store one day saw a solo transcription by Carl Maria Von Weber, the Adagio was in Db and all tenor clef - I put it down like a hot potato. Then I looked and saw it was only two lines and would be a good way to get over those two things - tenor clef and Db! I learned it, but never got it to sing - I think I will pull out again, though.

What really did it for me was Fauré's after a dream, I can email it to you if you PM. It is beautiful, lays super nice on the bass, only one page and the last section is all in tenor.

I guess my answer is just to use rep. to get through it. I can read it fine now, it opens up older transcriptions and compositions, easier to read from 'cello parts and just good to know. While I advocate being able to read it and work from it, I don't see a good reason to add more to the world!

 

[gerry grable]

[
I guess my answer is just to use rep. to get through it. I can read it fine now, it opens up older transcriptions and compositions, easier to read from 'cello parts and just good to know. While I advocate being able to read it and work from it, I don't see a good reason to add more to the world![/QUOTE]

And then there's the alto, and even soprano clef! I guess they are just C clefs that are moveable like guitar capos

 

[Tom Gale]

When I wrote my "Triangulation of Fingering Systems", the first half deals with 'closed hand' ( 1,2 & 4) and 'open hand' (1,2,3 & 4). The second half deals with the addition of the thumb positions. After a lot of thought, I introduced the treble clef first. There was a time long ago when the tenor clef covered the range of the upper register but no longer. But after the treble clef, I did include the tenor clef. There are many, many things written that includes either or both clefs so a knowledge of both is needed for the advanced player.
Tom Gale

 

[Les Fret]

While I advocate being able to read it and work from it, I don't see a good reason to add more to the world!

Very good point! I never really understood why the tenor clef is used for TP instead of the much simpler treble clef, or even the bass clef with 8va. But I guess we are stuck with it since a lot of the repertoire uses the tenor clef for some (maybe old fashioned (?)) reason. Especially older publications use it. I think more recent publications use the treble clef more and more instead of tenor which is a good thing.

 

[damonsmith]

I think the older "solo" register was up to the G harmonic, it makes sense for that area. That is just a guess, though.

 

[neilG]

I think the older "solo" register was up to the G harmonic, it makes sense for that area. That is just a guess, though.

A lot of DB solo literature went higher than that. I think it's a leftover from vocal writing, and it persists for instruments considered to be in that range (ie., cello, bassoon, trombone, gamba sometimes). It doesn't seem that practical for the DB or the cello if the objective is to reduce the use of ledger lines.

 

[robobass]

Very good point! I never really understood why the tenor clef is used for TP instead of the much simpler treble clef, or even the bass clef with 8va. But I guess we are stuck with it since a lot of the repertoire uses the tenor clef for some (maybe old fashioned (?)) reason. Especially older publications use it. I think more recent publications use the treble clef more and more instead of tenor which is a good thing.

Agree. I think it's just a convention from cello writing where they switch to tenor to avoid too many ledger lines, and then to treble when tenor clef still doesn't get the job done. Tenor clef saves you only two ledger lines anyway, so why not go straight to treble? - unless the line won't be going above E or so. You see a lot of older editions of solo bass works (Bottesini) in which you have tenor clef but still an unfathomable number of ledger lines, and treble clef is prudishly avoided. Perhaps in those days it was thought that bassists could not possibly comprehend treble clef. I think that as older editions are gradually replaced, you will see less tenor, but it will never go away entirely. Personally, I can read it fine from the middle line up to three ledger lines, but outside of that I need to stop and think a bit. I don't really like to read bass clef with Ottava, and prefer just bass and treble, even though I play piano like a horse

 

[David Potts]

There could be another reason. It might suit the player not to have so many ledger lines but it could suit the publisher, who has to find space to fit in the information above the actual notes (eg, Allegro, Tempo 1, rehearsal numbers, etc) and under the indications below the stave above (eg, dynamics, cresc/dim, etc).

I have more trouble reading tenor and treble clefs down into the stave than above the stave. Jumping back into bass clef around F on the G string is comfortable from either clef but wait until much lower and I'm in trouble.

Cheers,
DP

 

[gerry grable]

A lot of DB solo literature went higher than that. I think it's a leftover from vocal writing, and it persists for instruments considered to be in that range (ie., cello, bassoon, trombone, gamba sometimes). It doesn't seem that practical for the DB or the cello if the objective is to reduce the use of ledger lines.

Above, Post #2, I mentioned the existence of the alto and tenor clefs. I half jokingly referred to them as "moveable clefs" for the above instruments and viola. Does anyone know if they are indeed still used, or are players of the above instruments also going right to the G clef?

 

[Steve Freides]

Just noticed this thread from a few months back.

C clefs are very much still in use; I ran into an amateur violist who got to college without ever being able to read treble or bass clef.

I used to teach ear-training at the college level and still teach new clefs to my students as part of what I do, even when the main focus is on playing an instrument.

Briefly, here is how I do it, which is how my teachers taught me:

Get a copy of "Complete Method for Rhythmical Articulation" by Pasquale Bona. The book is written entirely in treble clef, but the method is to pretend each exercise is in whatever clef you want to work on. If you don't want to buy the book, you can start with these selected exercises that I put into Sibelius and up on a web page http://kbnj.com/bona.pdf

Always learn a new clef by saying, out loud, the name of the reference note and every note between the reference note and the note you're reading. E.g., if the note written is what would be middle C in treble clef, and you're trying to learn tenor clef (reference note is C on the 4th line of the staff), you say, out loud, C B A G F E D C B, because that note is a B in tenor clef. NB: I infinitely prefer to do this in solfege, so you'd say Do Si La Sol Fa Mi Re Do Si.

You progress by learning to name only the notes on lines and not every note, and you stick with that, so for the above example, Do La Fa Re Si (or C A F D B). If the note you're reading is above the reference line, you just read every note or only lines up instead of down, stopping at the note you're trying to read. E.g., what looks like a top-of-the-staff treble G would find you saying Do Mi Fa, or C E F because that's an F in tenor clef.

You progress further by treating all the notes between the reference note and your note as grace notes - you say them quickly, stopping on the note you're reading.

You progress further by doing the above at a slow tempo with a metronome, grace notes included and you try to gradually increase the speed.

You progress further by thinking the grace, in-between line names instead of saying them out loud and you try to gradually increase the speed.

Anywhere along the way, once you have begun using the metronome, you also add conducting. And your goal is to be able to conduct and say these exercises with a metronome and you try to gradually increase the speed.

It's worth stressing that you don't sing, you just speak. You're not trying to improve your ear here, and you're not trying to use your ear to help you perform a piece written in a new clef; you're trying to get better at reading a new clef, and the less you use your ear for that, the better and quicker you'll accomplish it.

NB: This isn't one of those things that harder to talk about than to do; it's rather the opposite. The principles are simple and clear but, like learning any new language, there's no substitute for time and energy spent in speaking it in order to acquire fluency.

Hope that's helpful to someone out there.

-S-