Tension in modern and older flatwound strings including 9050Ls

[9050L]

This is all correct HaphAsSard. I may have mentioned it earlier in this thread, but many of the strings I moved to the new production house didn't have to be redesigned. The "fly in the ointment" was that the new producer wouldn't do round cores. There were a couple of string sets (one was a nickel guitar set IIRC) and the other was the bass flats. That's why I had to re-spec these sets. Fender was encouraging me to discontinue the flats all together. Their thought was that flats were dead in the market. This was true during the 80's and much of the 90's. I saw a resurgence of the sales of flats starting in the late 90's and growing quickly. That's why I kept them in the line. A little trivia- It was in the height of managing Genz Benz that Fender asked me to rework their string business. It was an incredibly busy time for me because of that. It was however, the most rewarding part of my career.

Hope you don't mind me asking @hasbeen , but were you with the company when the 80, 850 and 950 sets were replaced by the 9050L originals ? It would be very interesting to understand the reason for their introduction and the key differences from the sets they replaced. Thanks v much

 

[Paul New]

I thought that TI flats were the only electric bass string with a fabric or silk damping wrap between core and windings. Guess not!

OP, I think you should try the new EB Palladino signature flat light set. I base that opinion on very little information, just a youtube video comparing those and 9050Ls on a P Bass. They are expensive, but probably last a lifetime or so.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I thought that TI flats were the only electric bass string with a fabric or silk damping wrap between core and windings. Guess not!

Among currently produced flats, silk inlays are in Thomastik-Infeld Jazz Flats but also Optima RB Flatwounds and (recently confirmed by @Ricky Rioli) La Bella Low Tension Flats.

(Going back in time, I would expect this trait to have been even more common.)

T-I Jazz Rounds also sport them.

 

[iiipopes]

Thanks iiipopes. I still have questions about the tension of all the different options, but am still hoping that some folks here with experience of the original 9050L set from Mexico, can answer my questions 1 and 2 in my original post, with the slight alteration in gauge of the G which it appears I have not remembered correctly as pointed out by HaphAsSard (quoted below).


So my questions 1 2 and 3 should now read
1. How does the original 45 - 95 set compare tensionwise and soundwise with the new 45 - 100 9050L set ?
2. How does the original 45 - 95 set compare tensionwise and soundwise with the equivalent LaBella set (whatever that is ?)
3. What other flatwound string sets are as low tension as the original 45 - 95 9050Ls, and how do they compare soundwise ?

And is there anyone out there who has had an original 9050L set and then went to the new 9050L set, and is in a position to answer question 1 ?
Another question in detective mode - for the 80, 850, 950, and early 9050Ls, did they have green silk at the bridge, and did they have green silk at the headstock ? And what did the packaging look like ? (string envelopes as well as the set cover). Please can you upload photos if possible Thanks all !

I have not tried all the sets you mention. I can say that the tension between a 95 and a 100 is negligible. I have posted what I perceive the differences tonally between Fender, Ernie Ball, and La Bella. I don't have any historical information about the color of silk.

Finally, this is most important: a proper setup on your bass, including bridge height, intonation settings, neck relief, making sure the frets are in good order, proper nut slots with a sharp leading edge sloping back towards the tuners, pickup height, and fresh strings whatever the make/model/gauge, do more to make a bass easier and more reliable to play than any worries about specific string tension. It's like worrying about whether the regular gasoline at your local station has 10% ethanol or 11% ethanol when you haven't changed the air filter, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and carburetor/fuel injector calibrations and wonder why your car still runs like crap.

 

[9050L]

I have not tried all the sets you mention. I can say that the tension between a 95 and a 100 is negligible. I have posted what I perceive the differences tonally between Fender, Ernie Ball, and La Bella. I don't have any historical information about the color of silk.

Finally, this is most important: a proper setup on your bass, including bridge height, intonation settings, neck relief, making sure the frets are in good order, proper nut slots with a sharp leading edge sloping back towards the tuners, pickup height, and fresh strings whatever the make/model/gauge, do more to make a bass easier and more reliable to play than any worries about specific string tension. It's like worrying about whether the regular gasoline at your local station has 10% ethanol or 11% ethanol when you haven't changed the air filter, oil, oil filter, spark plugs, and carburetor/fuel injector calibrations and wonder why your car still runs like crap.

All the setup aspects you noted iiipopes were done a while before the bass went to my "friend", and indeed some of those items were what made a big difference to the sound. When I get the bass back, they will be checked/done again. But there is one limitation I will probably have to take as a given, which is the relief on the neck. As Pino P also found when he put Jamerson flats on his '63, they did not work for the bass as was and he solved that problem by tuning down to D G C F. If he had not, he would probably have ended up with a banana instead of a 63 Precision. I have a goal other than just reliability, and that is that I want to recreate the sound I originally had from that bass before it went to this person. which I would have been able to achieve if he had not discarded my strings. So I am in a process of elimination to try to find out, given I cannot be certain about which set number I had, what it was within two or three possible sets, so I can try them and then I will know for sure. One thing is clear to me sofar on this thread, is that there seems to be no-one on the thread with the actual experience of trying both the old and the new 9050L set.
The information that you have all posted sofar is very useful, thanks due. I think I am now at the stage where I do not need any more suggestions for alternative offerings, and just want to focus on a) getting the detective work completed so I can be fairly certain which set it actually was that I had on there (I put these things on so long ago I don't remember all the details - the info on this thread and the excellent VC Squier thread is helping jog my memory), and b) getting some played-in sets of the types of interest. From there, my ears and hands will tell me what I need to know. And my guitar tech will then work his magic. If any of you can point to some TB'ers who might be able to assist me further on the historical info, or who might have some of the Fender sets of interest, that would be really appreciated.

 

[hasbeen]

Hope you don't mind me asking @hasbeen , but were you with the company when the 80, 850 and 950 sets were replaced by the 9050L originals ? It would be very interesting to understand the reason for their introduction and the key differences from the sets they replaced. Thanks v much

I don't mind at all.....I like the discussions on TB. I'm afraid I can't help though. I wasn't at FMIC when the original 950's were being made, so I don't know what was changed. FMIC bought Kaman Music, the company that I worked for, in October of 2007. I was managing Kaman's distribution business and Genz Benz at that time. In 2009, Fender asked me to rebrand, re-package and re-source all their "small goods"......picks, strings, straps, cables etc. At that time, they were making the 9050 series already. My apologies.

 

[hasbeen]

In my searches through TB string forum in last few months, I came across at least one thread where the person who designed the latest 9050s for Fender posted.

That's user @hasbeen
I recall them saying they went by feel more than tension measurements which I found somewhat odd, and that Fender was thinking of discontinuing flats altogether around the time (2010-ish) as they weren't selling well. So there was a compelling reason to change it up from previous versions.

In other news I find the new 9050Ls have a "singing" quality when set up with low action I haven't really experienced with other flats (on my G&L SB-1, and Momose '70s-style J bass).
That is borne out by this video I just happened upon of this guy playing Bach cello suites on a '63 Fender Precision: with 9050Ls:

BTW, thanks for posting that video......it's very well done.

 

[Rockin John]

As a slight side issue, is anyone aware of a Fender string tension chart? Or maybe data from whoever makes strings for Fender?

Tks.

John

 

[michael_t]

As a slight side issue, is anyone aware of a Fender string tension chart? Or maybe data from whoever makes strings for Fender?

No tension info on Fender-branded strings anywhere. They're made by D'Addario but to Fender's specs, so the tension numbers for D'A strings would only provide rough estimation.

 

[9050L]

OK back to the detective work ! The strings that I really liked had the light green silk wrap at the headstock (see image). That would appear to rule out the original 9050L set as that apparently had "incredible hulk" green headstock wrap. Correct ? There may have been a wrap at the ball end - don't remember. The ball ends themselves were brass. That would appear to rule out the modern 9050L set. Correct ? They were definitely Fender strings. What could they have been ? (Not the 80 set - they were the ones I wanted to try but could never find a set.) I want to narrow the possibilities down to the point that I know which sets to look for, whether played-in or N.O.S. From the production side, were there ever any variations in the parameters listed above ? Are my assumptions correct ? Thanks all !

 

[michael_t]

OK back to the detective work ! The strings that I really liked had the light green silk wrap at the headstock (see image). That would appear to rule out the original 9050L set as that apparently had "incredible hulk" green headstock wrap. Correct ?

The green silk in the pic looks like the same green as the one on the 9050L I was using around 2015, which also had silk at the ball ends as well as color-coded ball ends. From what I understand, the pre-2010 Mexican Fender flats only had green silk at the ball end with no silk at the tuner end.

 

[9050L]

Thanks @michael_t - the target strings definitely did not have color-coded ball ends though. They were brass in color. What could they have been ?

 

[michael_t]

the target strings definitely did not have color-coded ball ends though. They were brass in color. What could they have been ?

The plot thickens... I'm probably the wrong guy to be trying to answer that question as I haven't been playing bass long enough to know what was happening with Fender strings when they were still being made in Mexico. I can only guess there might have been a transitional period when they started having green silk at the tuner end but still with brass ball ends?

Maybe @hasbeen can shed some light in that regard?

 

[michael_t]

the target strings definitely did not have color-coded ball ends though. They were brass in color. What could they have been ?

Wait... I just thought of something...

Could they have been the ones used as factory strings? The Fender-branded strings that come on Fender basses from the factory do not have color-coded ball ends, including 7250M and 9050L; only the ones in retail packages do.

For example, the American Pro Fretless Jazz is factory-equipped with 9050L.

Green silk at the tuner end...

Brass ball ends...

 

[9050L]

Interesting. Is it possible that some of these sets got into retail packets ? I wonder. And I wonder how far back in time this practice started ? This is definitely a question for Fender people. Any takers here ?

 

[Rockin John]

OK back to the detective work ! The strings that I really liked had the light green silk wrap at the headstock (see image). That would appear to rule out the original 9050L set as that apparently had "incredible hulk" green headstock wrap. Correct ? There may have been a wrap at the ball end - don't remember. The ball ends themselves were brass. That would appear to rule out the modern 9050L set. Correct ? They were definitely Fender strings. What could they have been ? (Not the 80 set - they were the ones I wanted to try but could never find a set.) I want to narrow the possibilities down to the point that I know which sets to look for, whether played-in or N.O.S. From the production side, were there ever any variations in the parameters listed above ? Are my assumptions correct ? Thanks all !

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago I played a set of flats with the light green wraps. I’m 99% sure they were Fender brand.

 

[Rockin John]

No tension info on Fender-branded strings anywhere. They're made by D'Addario but to Fender's specs, so the tension numbers for D'A strings would only provide rough estimation.

Thanks. I had a suspicion that would be the case.

Regards. John

 

[Rockin John]

Thanks @Rockin John ! But what was the set number ?!!

Oooh, gosh, sorry but no idea. It was such a long time ago

 

[9050L]

Oooh, gosh, sorry but no idea. It was such a long time ago

No worries - I can't very well blame you for not remembering when I can't either

 

[hasbeen]

Wait... I just thought of something...

Could they have been the ones used as factory strings? The Fender-branded strings that come on Fender basses from the factory do not have color-coded ball ends, including 7250M and 9050L; only the ones in retail packages do.

For example, the American Pro Fretless Jazz is factory-equipped with 9050L.

Green silk at the tuner end...

View attachment 7287184

Brass ball ends...

View attachment 7287199

Winner, winner, Chicken dinner.