Test drove a PJB C4 today... Disappointed

[William Stone]

A local music store has a PJB C4 on the floor and, enticed by the compact package and numerous positive reviews, I took it for a test drive this afternoon. I took my P-Bass and WD-800 (400 watts @ 8ohms) so it would be apparent to my ear what qualities the cabinet was bringing to the sound. I normally play the WD on top of a 2x10 cabinet.

I was immediately disappointed. It seems the two or three reviews I read indicating that it has no bottom end were the more accurate assessments. I spent about 10 minutes with it and cranked it up in the large-ish space of the store, and no matter how much the bass frequencies were boosted on the WD, there was no real low end coming from the cabinet. It might pair well with a larger cabinet, but I can not see playing even a small venue with it alone as some reviewers have reported. It's just too thin, plus it weighs more than, and doesn't put out as much volume as, my Hartke 1x12 combo, which has plentiful low end.

There was a used Trace ELF 2x8 cabinet on the floor right next to the C4. I tried the Trace and found it to have ample low end and more volume than the C4, and I was able to dial in a nice tone with a little tweaking. I considered buying it but didn't, as it weighs more than the 2x10 cabinet I already own. The smaller size would be nice though.

 

[Parzival]

A local music store has a PJB C4 on the floor and, enticed by the compact package and numerous positive reviews, I took it for a test drive this afternoon. I took my P-Bass and WD-800 (400 watts @ 8ohms) so it would be apparent to my ear what qualities the cabinet was bringing to the sound. I normally play the WD on top of a 2x10 cabinet.

I was immediately disappointed. It seems the two or three reviews I read indicating that it has no bottom end were the more accurate assessments. I spent about 10 minutes with it and cranked it up in the large-ish space of the store, and no matter how much the bass frequencies were boosted on the WD, there was no real low end coming from the cabinet. It might pair well with a larger cabinet, but I can not see playing even a small venue with it alone as some reviewers have reported. It's just too thin, plus it weighs more than, and doesn't put out as much volume as, my Hartke 1x12 combo, which has plentiful low end.

There was a used Trace ELF 2x8 cabinet on the floor right next to the C4. I tried the Trace and found it to have ample low end and more volume than the C4, and I was able to dial in a nice tone with a little tweaking. I considered buying it but didn't, as it weighs more than the 2x10 cabinet I already own. The smaller size would be nice though.

They definitely lack some low end. They do sound pretty good and are louder than you would think. The thing with those cabs is you have to be very careful. They say they are rated at 400 watts / 8 ohm). Even though your Mesa is only putting out 400 watts @ 8 ohms, that PJB will not be able to handle it if you push it. Their ratings are off. Ask me how I know.

 

[Derek Kay]

They definitely lack some low end. They do sound pretty good and are louder than you would think. The thing with those cabs is you have to be very careful. They say they are rated at 400 watts / 8 ohm). Even though your Mesa is only putting out 400 watts @ 8 ohms, that PJB will not be able to handle it if you push it. Their ratings are off. Ask me how I know.

Tell us how you know.

I'm skeptical that an array of 5" spkrs can produce as good a bottom end as 12" or 15" etc. But that could just be my confirmation bias.

Perhaps if I focused my sound with a HPF it might work.

It could also be OK with a DB with it's longer scale fundamentals.

I have personally come to favour single drivers - more efficiency, smaller, lighter, cheaper & a single-source sound.

 

[Parzival]

 

[Aloe]

oh, one c4 is pretty weak, comparable like to 1x10, as say wisdoms of PJB owners' club on the TB

try a cab-67 next time

 

[jeffb28451]

I was really excited to get my BG-400 and c-4 cabinets. I ended up with a 42 lb. combo that didn't sound good and didnt' move air.
Not much better at all with the c-4 running with it. Another one of those "one and done" set-ups: one gig and get rid of it quickly.

Nice tone and adequate for some very limited purposes...I just couldn't figure out what those would be. I spent over $1300 dollars and dumped it for an $800 trade value in less than a month.

One of the biggest disappointments in 50 years of playing and trading gear. I know two really good bassists who swear by them...I'm not one
of them.

I have heard good things about the "7" cabs, and the larger "5" cabinets, but PJB gets no more of my money.

 

[Razman]

My favorite all-time cab is a SWR Henry the 8x8. One day I might load one with those 200w Daytons to build a little monster. Two would be awesome.

Currently I use a PJB SIX-PAK atop two 9b cabs. It's a tall, heavy stack that gets the sound up where I can hear it, projects well, and sounds good. Not as much low end as the Henry, but we have a FOH system for that; the PJB stack is clearer sounding, however.

In my band context I need to cut through the mix and be loud - it does it, and I like that the multiple drivers helps reduce thermal compression. Lots of little drivers doing a small amount of work each, as opposed to few big drivers doing lots of work. YMMV.

I agree that the small amps seem to suffer from a price-to-SPL problem. Some love them, and that's okay. I use headphones at home and don't need to hear uber-clean bass tones when not using my 'phones so it's not a big deal to me.

I do use a HPF with that stack and my church's theater rig, and it helps both.

This was fun:

 

[Rooster009]

Never played a PJ anything, but overall I've come to find that most (not all) products that get rave reviews here on TB, are just supposedly the next big thing and then the product falls on its face and disappears when the next supposedly big thing comes along. And so on and so on.

 

[OldogNewTrick]

...snip...

There was a used Trace ELF 2x8 cabinet on the floor right next to the C4. I tried the Trace and found it to have ample low end and more volume than the C4, and I was able to dial in a nice tone with a little tweaking. I considered buying it but didn't, as it weighs more than the 2x10 cabinet I already own. The smaller size would be nice though.

Hmmm, interesting.
I did a similar thing and compared the TE 208, the Ampeg PF 12T, Aguilar SL12 with the PJB C4 and C8.
Testing room at a was in a large music store, which suited me fine as I wanted a small cab for home use.
Fender Jazz 5 and a Marcus Miller V7-5 into my own Ampeg PF-20T.
Criteria was clear, transparent, with a solid representation of the B string as a MUST.

Worst performer Amperg PF12 - boomy and muddy to the low E, and the sound became really thin below that.
TE 208 great to the low E, but looses audibly the fundamental below on the B string walking E, D#, D, C#...
Aguilar SL12 was great all the way down, but by far the most expensive.
The C8 was equal to the SL12 - different flavour of great.
The C4 was not far behind. Solid and equal representation of the low E, D, but I could hear a slight reduction in fundamental at C# and below.

For my intended purpose (playing at home), I bought the C4 and relish it's performance and sound.

I fully realize that a live setting is a different issue, more so depending on genre, stage volume requirements etc.

By the way, my other cab is a Aguilar GS210 original series and a like the C4 better for my use.
I actually bought a 2nd C4 to have a true 4 Ohm load for use with my 1976 Fender Dual Showman.
The best sound with this amp that I have heard, that I can recall - it is really the sound in my head.

Long story short, the C4 isn't the piece of crap you make it out to be. - just sayin'

 

[William Stone]

Hmmm, interesting.
I did a similar thing and compared the TE 208, the Ampeg PF 12T, Aguilar SL12 with the PJB C4 and C8.
Testing room at a was in a large music store, which suited me fine as I wanted a small cab for home use.
Fender Jazz 5 and a Marcus Miller V7-5 into my own Ampeg PF-20T.
Criteria was clear, transparent, with a solid representation of the B string as a MUST.

Worst performer Amperg PF12 - boomy and muddy to the low E, and the sound became really thin below that.
TE 208 great to the low E, but looses audibly the fundamental below on the B string walking E, D#, D, C#...
Aguilar SL12 was great all the way down, but by far the most expensive.
The C8 was equal to the SL12 - different flavour of great.
The C4 was not far behind. Solid and equal representation of the low E, D, but I could hear a slight reduction in fundamental at C# and below.

For my intended purpose (playing at home), I bought the C4 and relish it's performance and sound.

I fully realize that a live setting is a different issue, more so depending on genre, stage volume requirements etc.

By the way, my other cab is a Aguilar GS210 original series and a like the C4 better for my use.
I actually bought a 2nd C4 to have a true 4 Ohm load for use with my 1976 Fender Dual Showman.
The best sound with this amp that I have heard, that I can recall - it is really the sound in my head.

Long story short, the C4 isn't the piece of crap you make it out to be. - just sayin'

Glad it works for you. Such a compact package would be nice.
For the record, I said it was thin in the low end and heavy compared to my Hartke and my 2x10 cab. I didn't say anything was crap. It didn't suit my needs for small venues lacking FOH sound.
And I was clear that was using my particular amp and relative to the sound my then current setup was producing. I didn't say it wouldn't work for anyone or that it should be avoided entirely.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

A local music store has a PJB C4 on the floor and, enticed by the compact package and numerous positive reviews, I took it for a test drive this afternoon. I took my P-Bass and WD-800 (400 watts @ 8ohms) so it would be apparent to my ear what qualities the cabinet was bringing to the sound. I normally play the WD on top of a 2x10 cabinet.

I was immediately disappointed. It seems the two or three reviews I read indicating that it has no bottom end were the more accurate assessments. I spent about 10 minutes with it and cranked it up in the large-ish space of the store, and no matter how much the bass frequencies were boosted on the WD, there was no real low end coming from the cabinet. It might pair well with a larger cabinet, but I can not see playing even a small venue with it alone as some reviewers have reported. It's just too thin, plus it weighs more than, and doesn't put out as much volume as, my Hartke 1x12 combo, which has plentiful low end.

There was a used Trace ELF 2x8 cabinet on the floor right next to the C4. I tried the Trace and found it to have ample low end and more volume than the C4, and I was able to dial in a nice tone with a little tweaking. I considered buying it but didn't, as it weighs more than the 2x10 cabinet I already own. The smaller size would be nice though.

I have zero experience with PJB cabs. I do have a WD-800 and when In use it with my Eden cabs, it's a lot brighter in the high mids than my Eden amps, so I have to use extreme usage of the parametric EQ to get a palatable sound.

As for PJB cabs, I think they are sealed cab and to someone that has no knowledge of cab designs to me means that speaker extrusion is limited and therefore reduces the perceived low end at higher volumes. I did look at their efficiency rating and compared to me Eden cabs they aren't as efficient.

But, for use in lower volume applications, I'm thinking these PJB cabs must sound pretty good.

 

[Passinwind]

As for PJB cabs, I think they are sealed cab

The C4 is pretty clearly ported: Products – Cabinets -C4 | Phil Jones Bass

And at least a few PJB cabs use passive radiators, IIRC.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

The C4 is pretty clearly ported: Products – Cabinets -C4 | Phil Jones Bass

And at least a few PJB cabs use passive radiators, IIRC.

Thanks for your response.

 

[BassfaceLars]

I use the PJB Briefcase on small gigs for upright. Now using the PJB BG 450. It's enough to drive a big band. Would love to add the C4. This is all perfect for double bass. I use the Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 and Aguilar SL 112 for electric bass. The double bass sounds ok in the Aguilar and I can dial the tone in. The PJB is much better for double bass. If I need to double, I use the PJ Bass amp