Test: Mesa WD-800 vs. GK MBF-800

[CaptainWally]

I had a chance to A/B the Mesa WD-800 vs. the GK MBF-800 in rehearsal.

I was using a Mike Lull M4V and an old Glockenlang 4x10.

Playing R&B and some rock with horns.

GK: louder, boomier, more scooped, more sizzle on the top end, nice tube character....you can really hear the notes like chimes, but they feel a wee bit "hollow"...hard to describe

Mesa: better mid presence, cuts better and sits in the mix better; better controls and interface, subtle but pleasant tube character, comes with cool little bag

Overall, I prefer the Mesa. I can hear myself better in the mix without blasting everyone out. No one else gave a rat's arse but the guitarist....who noted it sat in the mix much better.,

Also, it wasn't part of my recent A/B, but I also have the Demeter VTBP-M-800D.

Demeter: similar volume to Mesa, nice controls - but lacking key features, wacky EQ points....flat is mid 100%, bass/treble 0%, best sounding of the three...by itself....I'm still figuring it out in the mix...the lunch box thing is "ok"....but Mesa has the best form factor.

At this moment....if I had to go "Highlander" and there could be only one, I'd go Mesa.

Note on Mesa.....two things that kept me away from the previous Subway amps. The D-800 wasn't bright enough and I really dig tube character. The D-800+ at least had a bright switch. But the WD-800 is naturally bright enough and the bit of tube character come together to hit the mark for me.

 

[joel406]

Glad to hear that the WD is an improvement over the D-800/+.

But I'll stick with my GK MB-800 fusion. Through my cabs I have a perfect spot in the mix. EQ is effortless and the potential power is staggering.

Remember the MBF-800 is 560 watts at 8 ohms. And bounces easily above the 1k mark with a 4ohm load.

NOBODY will ever need that much power.

But is clean head room forever.


Again... Very glad Mesa is working to compete. At least they made it to fourth place.

 

[TomB]

I had a chance to A/B the Mesa WD-800 vs. the GK MBF-800 in rehearsal.

I was using a Mike Lull M4V and an old Glockenlang 4x10.

Playing R&B and some rock with horns.

GK: louder, boomier, more scooped, more sizzle on the top end, nice tube character....you can really hear the notes like chimes, but they feel a wee bit "hollow"...hard to describe

Mesa: better mid presence, cuts better and sits in the mix better; better controls and interface, subtle but pleasant tube character, comes with cool little bag

Overall, I prefer the Mesa. I can hear myself better in the mix without blasting everyone out. No one else gave a rat's arse but the guitarist....who noted it sat in the mix much better.,

Also, it wasn't part of my recent A/B, but I also have the Demeter VTBP-M-800D.

Demeter: similar volume to Mesa, nice controls - but lacking key features, wacky EQ points....flat is mid 100%, bass/treble 0%, best sounding of the three...by itself....I'm still figuring it out in the mix...the lunch box thing is "ok"....but Mesa has the best form factor.

At this moment....if I had to go "Highlander" and there could be only one, I'd go Mesa.

Note on Mesa.....two things that kept me away from the previous Subway amps. The D-800 wasn't bright enough and I really dig tube character. The D-800+ at least had a bright switch. But the WD-800 is naturally bright enough and the bit of tube character come together to hit the mark for me.

Do you recall where the GK EQ was set? It sounds like straight up at noon, or at least that's how I would describe the GK sound at that setting. ..a nice description BTW!

 

[CaptainWally]

Mostly noon with some bass backed off a bit to help it be a little less boomy.

Contour/suck knob turned all the way off

 

[CaptainWally]

Glad to hear that the WD is an improvement over the D-800/+.

But I'll stick with my GK MB-800 fusion. Through my cabs I have a perfect spot in the mix. EQ is effortless and the potential power is staggering.

Remember the MBF-800 is 560 watts at 8 ohms. And bounces easily above the 1k mark with a 4ohm load.

NOBODY will ever need that much power.

But is clean head room forever.


Again... Very glad Mesa is working to compete. At least they made it to fourth place.

I think they are a killing it! The Subway series is exactly what a lot of working (or funning) bassists are after.

GK has some great stuff, but a lot of its become long in the tooth. They are well overdue for an update to their amps.

The Neo cabs are cool, although I think Subway cabs have them beat. --- except in price. Which is substantially different!

 

[CaptainWally]

Updated gig report: I used the WD-800 with my Bergantino HDN-210 at a med-large venue with a 9 (!) piece R&B/funk band last weekend. Active Lull M4V.

The HDN-210 was basically a stage monitor with a little bleed to the audience, but I depended mostly on FOH.

The HDN-210 is a great stage monitor. Tight clarity, plenty of volume and a breeze to transport.

I played this same stage several times with the same stuff and the GK. It has always been great.

This last weekend, I brought the Mesa WD-800. There isn't a night/day different with the WD-800 + GK, but I really dug the Mesa. The GK comparatively has unwieldy power and a potential to boom a bit. And it's a bit scooped.

The Mesa has a really nice plug-n-play sound print. The mids in the mix are what make the Mesa....more presence than the GK without unwanted boominess or slice. Just a nice meaty bass tone that sits right in the mix.

Plus the form factor of the Mesa is much better. It's a winner.

I'm still curious about Subway cabs, but there is definitely nothing broken with the HDN-210, other than I don't like its foot print for stacking.....but hasn't been an issue.

 

[pfschim]

hey, great info Captain.
I'm not a GK guy at all, but I am eyeballing the WD800 (already a huge Walkabout fan) .. and I also have the nice sounding, but somewhat "waky" Demeter VTBP-M-800D (love the description). I also have a D800+ that I have gigged pretty regularly for the past year. I'm really trying to like it, but it mostly ends up reminding me that I never cared for the Mesa Carbine preamp voice.

I also use a Lull M4V (as well as a Roscoe Beck IV)

I know I am just going to have to try the WD800 for myself, but its good to hear these kinds of detailed user reports and real gig references.

 

[J.Wolf]

nice comparo Wally. I am curious about those WD's. Not a huge GK fan, and didnt go head over heels for the D800, but from what I'm reading, I would probably like the WD. I'm pretty flush and blessed in the amp dept at the moment, but I may have to check out one of these.

 

[CaptainWally]

hey, great info Captain.
I'm not a GK guy at all, but I am eyeballing the WD800 (already a huge Walkabout fan) .. and I also have the nice sounding, but somewhat "waky" Demeter VTBP-M-800D (love the description). I also have a D800+ that I have gigged pretty regularly for the past year. I'm really trying to like it, but it mostly ends up reminding me that I never cared for the Mesa Carbine preamp voice.

I also use a Lull M4V (as well as a Roscoe Beck IV)

I know I am just going to have to try the WD800 for myself, but its good to hear these kinds of detailed user reports and real gig references.

Keep in mind that the WD-800 is a mix amp. The Demeter sounds much more sonically rich and tubey. Butt the first time I played a gig with the Demeter, I didn't take the wacky flat EQ configuration seriously, and I was very quickly lost in the mix. You really do need the mid cranked up 100% In the right setting, I think the Demeter is glorious. In a racous 9 piece R&B band, I'll go with Mesa all the way.

 

[pfschim]

I've gigged the Demeter for about a year now and its still very much a like/not like .. works/don't work thing for me.
challenging EQ is just one of its issues. For me, other issues include:
It is just 4ohm stable (and 8 of course).
There is no master volume (so you can push the pre gain a bit for tube compression)
the DI is wonderful, but as the amp only has a Master Vol, and no DI level control, if you want to use the Post EQ option, you have to have the Volume cranked pretty high to get a decent DI output level - and hey, 800w is a lot of watts to crank on certain gigs (good news here is that the Pre EQ DI tone is very nice all by itself).
FWIW, I do NOT hear the Demeter as particularly tubey ... I also use a Mesa Walkabout, and THAT amp is tubey (IMO/IME) .. the Demeter is much more polite to my ears.

otherwise its an outstanding piece of gear

of course I have not sold it off yet either, so it must be doing something well.

 

[svtb15]

This is just my opinion. Others may say otherwise.
TO Me the Gk MBF800 is closer to the Mesa Carbine than it is to a Walkabout.
With the ability to go super Bright and super Low when BASS knob is engaged.
I think the GK is harmonically more enriched in a good way.
The GK will BOOM at times. But I feel it tends to wash a bit in a mix..YOu hear it and feel it but my other amp seems to punch a little more.
I have never played teh GK MB800 all SS version.. Maybe the tubes in the MBF version are a little to much??? Dont know
And may possibly be as loud or louder than the M6 or M9 since M9 @ 600 watts. Very close if anything .

And to me the Mesa D800 is NOT a Walkabout substitute. Great reliable amp but its no WA.
I am going to try out an ashdown ABM 600 for fun.. My bud has one and its phat

hey, great info Captain.
I'm not a GK guy at all, but I am eyeballing the WD800 (already a huge Walkabout fan) .. and I also have the nice sounding, but somewhat "waky" Demeter VTBP-M-800D (love the description). I also have a D800+ that I have gigged pretty regularly for the past year. I'm really trying to like it, but it mostly ends up reminding me that I never cared for the Mesa Carbine preamp voice.

I also use a Lull M4V (as well as a Roscoe Beck IV)

I know I am just going to have to try the WD800 for myself, but its good to hear these kinds of detailed user reports and real gig references.

 

[agedhorse]

And to me the Mesa D800 is NOT a Walkabout substitute. Great reliable amp but its no WA.
I am going to try out an ashdown ABM 600 for fun.. My bud has one and its phat

Kirk, you do know that the D-800 was never intended to be a Walkabout substitute, right? I'm not sure where you got this idea, it certainly wasn't in the marketing nor have I ever suggested it was.

 

[svtb15]

Of course I know. I read ALL of these threads inside and out, upside and down, left right and all over the place. I think you're projecting a bit..
If you backup a littel on the other thread you will see that I mentioned the MPulse 600 was claiming it was a bigger WA on the MESA site before the makeover..

Issue is that many folks that are out in the field ( not the TB community of course) think that just because it is small and black and has a MESA LOGO.. that it's gonna be a new version of a Walkabout. And it's Not.
I must run into a at least one a guy a week that asks that.

Kirk, you do know that the D-800 was never intended to be a Walkabout substitute, right? I'm not sure where you got this idea, it certainly wasn't in the marketing nor have I ever suggested it was.

 

[GRoberts]

Updated gig report: I used the WD-800 with my Bergantino HDN-210 at a med-large venue with a 9 (!) piece R&B/funk band last weekend. Active Lull M4V.

The HDN-210 was basically a stage monitor with a little bleed to the audience, but I depended mostly on FOH.

The HDN-210 is a great stage monitor. Tight clarity, plenty of volume and a breeze to transport.

I played this same stage several times with the same stuff and the GK. It has always been great.

This last weekend, I brought the Mesa WD-800. There isn't a night/day different with the WD-800 + GK, but I really dug the Mesa. The GK comparatively has unwieldy power and a potential to boom a bit. And it's a bit scooped.

The Mesa has a really nice plug-n-play sound print. The mids in the mix are what make the Mesa....more presence than the GK without unwanted boominess or slice. Just a nice meaty bass tone that sits right in the mix.

Plus the form factor of the Mesa is much better. It's a winner.

I'm still curious about Subway cabs, but there is definitely nothing broken with the HDN-210, other than I don't like its foot print for stacking.....but hasn't been an issue.

Hey Wally, Great timing! I just demo'd a WD-800 yesterday and loved it! I have a GK MBF800 too (As you probably recall) I haven't used it in a long time and I think I may flip it and get the Mesa. I need to decide what cabinet to use. My Berg CN212 would work great but I am kind of loving my Baer ML112 more ...and need either another cab or something just a big fatter with a little more 'bloom' than the super articulate Berg CN212. But I will try the pairing first.

 

[bucephylus]

Interesting comments about the Demeter. I find the Demeter EQ points to be Mary Poppins perfect. In the mix. If anything, they only change the amp's tone a very little bit. So, if you don't like what the Demeter does, the tone controls aren't going to solve that.

But, I would also say that I find the amps with enhanced mids, like the Aggie stuff, to be utterly unworkable; though that kind of amp has a dedicated following.

So, we all look (listen) for different things.

Still, I'd be surprised if I didn't find the WD-800 to be great. Always liked its predecessor.

 

[agedhorse]

Of course I know. I read ALL of these threads inside and out, upside and down, left right and all over the place. I think you're projecting a bit..
If you backup a littel on the other thread you will see that I mentioned the MPulse 600 was claiming it was a bigger WA on the MESA site before the makeover..

Issue is that many folks that are out in the field ( not the TB community of course) think that just because it is small and black and has a MESA LOGO.. that it's gonna be a new version of a Walkabout. And it's Not.
I must run into a at least one a guy a week that asks that.

We were careful to avoid saying or even implying that the WD was not just a bigger WA, though it does come from that heritage.

I do understand where you are coming from though

 

[svtb15]

I am travelling today and the iphone is not handy to read this thread.

First I see that you are misreading a few things.
I believe that I wrote the D800 model , and NOT the WD. I didn't mention the WD.

Please acknowledge so I know we are on the same page.

Two posters mentioned the GK MBF-800 and D-800+.. One of them is an amp that i am very familiar with so I commented .

We were careful to avoid saying or even implying that the WD was not just a bigger WA, though it does come from that heritage.

I do understand where you are coming from though

 

[pfschim]

Interesting comments about the Demeter. I find the Demeter EQ points to be Mary Poppins perfect. In the mix. If anything, they only change the amp's tone a very little bit. So, if you don't like what the Demeter does, the tone controls aren't going to solve that.

But, I would also say that I find the amps with enhanced mids, like the Aggie stuff, to be utterly unworkable; though that kind of amp has a dedicated following.

So, we all look (listen) for different things.

Still, I'd be surprised if I didn't find the WD-800 to be great. Always liked its predecessor.

hey bucephylus, we have exchanged opinions on the Demeter before.

In my case, I grabbed the Demeter while I was looking for more power/clean headroom than my Walkabout could deliver ... hoping that the Demeter could be EQ'd to be at least somewhat like the WA, but with considerably more power and clean headroom on tap.

As I have shared elsewhere, I feel that the Demeter is a very nice amp and it does bring the power and does have a certain cool factor to it, but it's definitely not in the WA tone camp (which is right in my tone goal sweetspot). When CaptainWally described the Demeter EQ as wacky, that totally resonated with me. I'm also totally with you on the point you made that the Demeter EQ tone controls don't change the amps tone/voice very much (very subtle) ... and it just happens that I prefer the native voices of the Mesa amps, particularly the Walkabout, vs the Demeter's native voice.

outside of the tone thing, which is not trivial for me, the other stuff I mentioned about the Demeter (not 2 ohm stable, no gain control, DI level) are just other some design elements I have run into with it that make it less desirable to me vs amps that cover those things differently.

Of course, now I have to see if the WD800 has enough of the WA heritage in its tone/feel to make the added power and features Andy stuffed into it worthwhile for me. I'm finally going to get to try out a WD800 next week and am really hoping it is meaningfully different than the D800+, which again is a very nice amp with great features, just not a very Walkabout sounding rig IMO/IME.

as you say ... we all look/listen for different things. I'm just happy we have so many great choices these days.

 

[agedhorse]

I am travelling today and the iphone is not handy to read this thread.

First I see that you are misreading a few things.
I believe that I wrote the D800 model , and NOT the WD. I didn't mention the WD.

Please acknowledge so I know we are on the same page.

Two posters mentioned the GK MBF-800 and D-800+.. One of them is an amp that i am very familiar with so I commented .

Correct, neither the D-800, D-800+ or the WD-800 are represented to be the same as a bigger Walkabout.

 

[svtb15]

You talk in circles.. We see what you do. . Its entertaining for us

Correct, neither the D-800, D-800+ or the WD-800 are represented to be the same as a bigger Walkabout.