Test: Mesa WD-800 vs. GK MBF-800

[agedhorse]

C'mon Kirk, I don't understand why you feel the need to act like this. I'm agreeing with you, we never said ANY of these amps were a larger Walkabout. What's your problem with this statement?

 

[bucephylus]

hey bucephylus, we have exchanged opinions on the Demeter before.

In my case, I grabbed the Demeter while I was looking for more power/clean headroom than my Walkabout could deliver ... hoping that the Demeter could be EQ'd to be at least somewhat like the WA, but with considerably more power and clean headroom on tap.

As I have shared elsewhere, I feel that the Demeter is a very nice amp and it does bring the power and does have a certain cool factor to it, but it's definitely not in the WA tone camp (which is right in my tone goal sweetspot). When CaptainWally described the Demeter EQ as wacky, that totally resonated with me. I'm also totally with you on the point you made that the Demeter EQ tone controls don't change the amps tone/voice very much (very subtle) ... and it just happens that I prefer the native voices of the Mesa amps, particularly the Walkabout, vs the Demeter's native voice.

outside of the tone thing, which is not trivial for me, the other stuff I mentioned about the Demeter (not 2 ohm stable, no gain control, DI level) are just other some design elements I have run into with it that make it less desirable to me vs amps that cover those things differently.

Of course, now I have to see if the WD800 has enough of the WA heritage in its tone/feel to make the added power and features Andy stuffed into it worthwhile for me. I'm finally going to get to try out a WD800 next week and am really hoping it is meaningfully different than the D800+, which again is a very nice amp with great features, just not a very Walkabout sounding rig IMO/IME.

as you say ... we all look/listen for different things. I'm just happy we have so many great choices these days.

+1 I will actually be surprised if the WD-800 isn't right down the pipe for the voicing you are after. Pretty sure it is a killer amp.

Also, I hear you about the 2 ohm thing. I just happen to have 2 of the Minnie 800D modules ; so, I've taken care of lower impedance rigs by brute force.

 

[pfschim]

C'mon Kirk, I don't understand why you feel the need to act like this. I'm agreeing with you, we never said ANY of these amps were a larger Walkabout. What's your problem with this statement?

while there is the suggestion that the WD has more of the Walkabout lineage in its tone/voicing than say the D800/800+ amps which clearly lean more in the Carbine direction (again, IMO/IME etc etc ...), I have not read anything that suggests that the WD is just a higher powered Walkabout. Andy has repeatedly said that (sic) the WD is an evolution of the Walkabout that takes into consideration design requirements/boundaries, technical capabilities/limitations and addresses the needs expressed by a pretty broad group of working bass players.

I for one am certainly hoping the WD does do a decent Walkabout impression, particularly at higher volume levels.

FWIW, I can't speak for someone like Kirk (apparently very experienced pro) but I absolutely feel like Aged Horse/Mesa's integrity is completely and positively intact here. I can't imagine any other company or designer being more up front with the bass playing community they they have been.

 

[Chef]

Hey SVT

I don't see where aged did anything but agree with you.
This thread wasn't about the old walkabout anyway.

FWIW
I've played D800 and it was too dark for me. Sent it right back to Sweetwater.
I have the D800+ and have since it came out and I like that pretty well.
I've had the MBF800 since it came out and like it really well.
I have the new WD800 and just haven't had the opportunity to gig it hard yet but I like it as well as the 800+ so far and I think it's eq is def more powerful if you need that

 

[smperry]

I deleted some posts. Thanks @Chef for trying to get it back on track in the meantime.

Please...let's improve the signal to noise ratio. Thanks

 

[GRoberts]

I gigged my GK MBF 800 on a large outdoor stage for St Paddy's Day. The speaker cabinet was a Bergantino CN212. Bass was the new Musicman Stingray 5H Special. There were plenty of mids, but this bass does that really well. I would LOVE to conduct an A-B comparison of the Mesa WD-800 versus the GK MB Fusion 800. (Capt wally - thank you for an awesome comparison!)

I demoed the Mesa WD-800 at a local shop through the Mesa Subway 4x10 and also Subway 115/210 stack. I was mightly impressed!! The WD-800 sounds great. Dare I say, I hear some of that quick midrange voice that I experience when I owned and gigged a Mesa M6 Carbine. But maybe some of that voice was the Mesa Subway Speaker cabinets too?

I won't get into the WD-800 versus Walkbout other than to say the form factor of the WD-800 "LOOKS" physically similar to the Walkabout. So it comes as no surprise that these contrasts are drawn frequently. My interest in this thread, however, purely revolves around the contrast of the GK MB Fusion 800 compared to the WD-800.

I will see if I can demo a WD-800 this week. If so, I'll bring the GK MB Fusion 800. The gig is a 4 piece band setting and calls for low to medium stage volume at most. (Maroon 5 ish) But given the sonic sweetness, I should be able to hear the difference. I'll report back if I can do this.

Chef - Hook us up with your comparative findings when you can please.

 

[Chef]

So far what I can tell you is this:
I can make the WD do an MBF impression that works for me.
And, I can get a lot more different genres of sounds out of the very broad eq capabilities of the WD.

As with the 800+, it works well no matter what cabs I've tried it with.

If you like the mbf series and/or the 800+, I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot to like about the WD.

 

[GRoberts]

So far what I can tell you is this:
I can make the WD do an MBF impression that works for me.
And, I can get a lot more different genres of sounds out of the very broad eq capabilities of the WD.

As with the 800+, it works well no matter what cabs I've tried it with.

If you like the mbf series and/or the 800+, I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot to like about the WD.

Thank you Alan. This makes perfect sense.

 

[CaptainWally]

I've gigged the Demeter for about a year now and its still very much a like/not like .. works/don't work thing for me.
challenging EQ is just one of its issues. For me, other issues include:
It is just 4ohm stable (and 8 of course).
There is no master volume (so you can push the pre gain a bit for tube compression)
the DI is wonderful, but as the amp only has a Master Vol, and no DI level control, if you want to use the Post EQ option, you have to have the Volume cranked pretty high to get a decent DI output level - and hey, 800w is a lot of watts to crank on certain gigs (good news here is that the Pre EQ DI tone is very nice all by itself).
FWIW, I do NOT hear the Demeter as particularly tubey ... I also use a Mesa Walkabout, and THAT amp is tubey (IMO/IME) .. the Demeter is much more polite to my ears.

otherwise its an outstanding piece of gear

of course I have not sold it off yet either, so it must be doing something well.

Tubey is always a loaded term. Sometimes it means gooey, blurry smooth. Other times is means gritty breakup. I usually think of "tubey" as the former....and I put Demeter in this camp, but I also agree that there is the gritty/broken-up thing too - like the SVT thing.

 

[pfschim]

Tubey is always a loaded term. Sometimes it means gooey, blurry smooth. Other times is means gritty breakup. I usually think of "tubey" as the former....and I put Demeter in this camp, but I also agree that there is the gritty/broken-up thing too - like the SVT thing.

it's interesting to me that you consider the Demeter VTBP-M-800D in the "gooey, blurry smooth" category. I don't find it to be that way at all.
I can definitely hear the tube pre flavor in the Demeter, but without a Gain control I find it very difficult to get the tubes to "show" very much.
In my case, what I want from tubes is that sweet spot, where there is "warm" tube compression, typically right before they break up .. but not dirt/grind or obvious OD. With 800w on tap and no Gain control, I just can't get my Demeter to do that at all.

 

[Chef]

"tubiness"
Yeah> Tricksy word.
Does it mean:
tube infused studio channel strip?
b-15 type thing?
Fender bassman type thing?
Alembic preamp type thing/
SVT tyrp thing?

Does your favored tube flavor come from a preamp section? with how much input gain?
or from power tubes getting mashed?

Tricksy. It's not one thing.

 

[CaptainWally]

"tubiness"
Yeah> Tricksy word.
Does it mean:
tube infused studio channel strip?
b-15 type thing?
Fender bassman type thing?
Alembic preamp type thing/
SVT tyrp thing?

Does your favored tube flavor come from a preamp section? with how much input gain?
or from power tubes getting mashed?

Tricksy. It's not one thing.

You said it, Smeagol. But tricksy never stopped this lot from dancing about architecture

 

[GRoberts]

I did some Mesa WD800 amp and Subway Cabinet testing at a gig last night:

Mesa WD800 --> Mesa Subway 115
GK MB Fusion 800 --> Mesa Subway 115
Mesa WD800 --> Baer ML112 cab
GK MB Fusion 800 --> Baer ML112
Mesa WD800 --> Subway 115 + Baer ML112 (4 Ohm stack)
GK MB Fusion 800 --> Subway 115 + Baer ML112 (4 Ohm stack)

The stack of both cabs (Subway 115 + Baer ML112) made for a massive sound, but it was sonically mismatched and less than ideal. Since they were both with me, I had to try. The Mesa Subway 115 produced the dominant sound when paired with the Baer ML112. (ML112 = 1x12" cab) The Subway 115 cab was more efficient and louder. Maybe it was due to the front porting? Either way, the Baer 112 cab was nearly as punchy as a stand-alone cab and delivers similar output, punch and low end as the Mesa Subway 115. The Mesa is (IMO) a bit more aggressive and has a greater low-end extension which comes no surprise. (15" Ported cab versus the 12" Baer)

Subway 115
The Mesa Subway 115 speaker cabinet impressed me greatly. What a great cabinet. It is the most articulate, well-voiced 15" cabinet I've used personally. Most 1x15 cabinets are too boomy, woofy or lack midrange complexity. Not true with the Subway 115. It offers a very poised low-end extension that is deep but articulate and the midrange and high end with the tweeter serve all genre's of music. I would be forever thrilled with the Mesa Subway 1x15 cab (or a pair of subway 115's!) Two of these would be superb and never leave me wanting. That said, I could do MOST of my shows with a single Mesa Boogie Subway 115 cabinet. The build quality is impressive and the cabinet comfortably lightweight and easy to carry. The recessed handles are nice, although I prefer an inset handle that I can grab. But not a deal breaker.

Baer ML112 (Off topic but since I own it) ....
The Baer ML112 delivers surprisingly similar output (side by side) as the Mesa Subway 115 but the ML112 delivers more refined midrange (as expected from a well voiced 12" speaker versus a 15") The Baer has a little less low-end extension (Not much!) but works wonderfully for most of my shows. Its great for stage volume or feeding a small to medium-sized venue. The ML112 is a superb performer and weighs a scant 36lbs. (A pair of Baer ML112's would be exceptional.) I should have bought a matching ML112 when I got this one. (Hindsight) It has been my benchmark reference 1x12 speaker cabinet, so the comparison to the Mesa Subway 115 last night was well placed. I left with great admiration for both, but was super pleased with the Mesa SW 115 cab.

WD800 Versus GK MB Fusion 800
My findings of the WD-800 are incomplete because I was at a gig where the stage lighting was poor. I did not have time to dial in the semi-parametric section. I quickly used the HPF, Bass, passive mid and treble. So my findings are inconclusive other than some general observations: In short; the WD-800 is a GREAT amp. It is punchy possessing a complex, somewhat chewy midrange growl that cuts in a band mix. My friend Capt Wally calls the WD-800 a "mix-amp" because it shines and sits so well in a band "Mix." I understand that assessment and agree completely. It sounds great alone too. But it really proves its salt "in the mix."

If I had to characterize the WD-800 voicing, I would say it has less high-end extension than the GK MBF800 and it has a more aggressive midrange character. I hear the Mesa bass amp family "voice", a compliment. In terms of output for my needs in a 5 piece band, it has plenty of power and punch for anything I need. (The Master Volume was at noon and input gain around noon. The Output volume with those settings came close to making my band mates frown at me)

I am confident with more time, I could dial-in more refined sounds using the powerful EQ section of the WD-800. The EQ should be able to tame or boost whatever frequencies you desire. I quickly boosted the bass and used the HPF knob to achieve the low-end sound I wanted. Then I adjusted the passive midrange and treble knobs to 'taste' for the balanced sound I wanted. The amp sounds great and is very well built. Very impressive. I prefer the tonal character and tone shaping of the WD-800 over the D-800 and D-800+ (given minimal time to explore more thoroughly). I still judge some amps on how quick I can get a useful sound I like.

GK MB Fusion 800
I've owned and use this amp for over 4 years so it is familiar. It is very fast to dial-in a sound I like and it has a deeper low-end extension. I have a very articulate right-hand attack, so I always get plenty of midrange detail and cut in-the-mix. It may be a bit scooped, but I easily get the growl and midrange complexity that I want. The high end is initially sweeter to my ears. I like its extension in the upper extremes. This amp sounded GREAT with the Mesa Subway 1x15! It sounds equally great with the Baer ML112 (1x12) cab.

All in all, I would be thrilled with a Mesa WD-800/Subway 1x15 rig. (or pair of Subway 1x15's) But it solves a problem I don't have. The GK MB Fusion 800 / Baer ML112 pairing is superb as is the GK MB Fusion 800 / Berg CN212.

At this level, there are different flavors or professional, world-class gigging bass rigs. Is one better? That's a matter of preference. I do feel like the knobs and build quality of the Mesa WD-800 is a bit better than the loose-ish knobs on the GK MBF 800. But in 4-5 years, my GK MBF800 has never let me down.

NOTE: While the photo shows them stacked, I did compare the GK MBF800/Baer 112 to the Mesa WD800/Subway 115 side by side with both cabs on the stage next to each other.

 

[pfschim]

You said it, Smeagol. But tricksy never stopped this lot from dancing about architecture

yeah it's kind of like what Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said about obscenity ..... "I know it when I hear it" (of course he said "see it")
we just all hear it a bit differently

 

[CaptainWally]

@GRoberts , that's a great review! I hope you give it its own thread!

You and I seem to be in the minority on this thread in our appreciation for the GK MBF. I still think it's a great amp, and it will be fun to hear about their new stuff.

The 1x15 sounds awesome! I kinda want one!

I would really like to rock the Subway 4x10, but I haven't hauled a box that big in a long time. And it's pretty expensive!

 

[GRoberts]

@GRoberts , that's a great review! I hope you give it its own thread!

You and I seem to be in the minority on this thread in our appreciation for the GK MBF. I still think it's a great amp, and it will be fun to hear about their new stuff.

The 1x15 sounds awesome! I kinda want one!

I would really like to rock the Subway 4x10, but I haven't hauled a box that big in a long time. And it's pretty expensive!

Hi Wally, Thanks. I could certainly share more, but the synopsis resolves to the same conclusion; The WD-800 and Subway 115 make a killer bass rig! Add another cabinet and you can cover any sonic terrain.

The Subway 4x10 that I demoed in my local shop sounds amazing! It is truly exquisite, sweet sounding, punchy, deep and articulate. After using the Mesa Subway 115 speaker cabinet last night in a 5-piece band context, I was very impressed. A more modular pair of Subway 115's or Subway 115 + <insert another subway cabinet model here> would be easier to move and manage for me. As I said, I could do most gigs with a single Subway 115 cabinet.

The GK MB Fusion 800, however, was admirable and I found myself preferring it. But probably because I am very familiar with it and it is super fast to dial-in a great sound. It paired VERY well with the Subway 115 cabinet too.

 

[CaptainWally]

Hi Wally, Thanks. I could certainly share more, but the synopsis resolves to the same conclusion; The WD-800 and Subway 115 make a killer bass rig! Add another cabinet and you can cover any sonic terrain.

The Subway 4x10 that I demoed in my local shop sounds amazing! It is truly exquisite, sweet sounding, punchy, deep and articulate. After using the Mesa Subway 115 speaker cabinet last night in a 5-piece band context, I was very impressed. A more modular pair of Subway 115's or Subway 115 + <insert another subway cabinet model here> would be easier to move and manage for me. As I said, I could do most gigs with a single Subway 115 cabinet.

The GK MB Fusion 800, however, was admirable and I found myself preferring it. But probably because I am very familiar with it and it is super fast to dial-in a great sound. It paired VERY well with the Subway 115 cabinet too.

Word.

Seems like a lot of the Mesa Subway gurus recommend the 1x15 + 1x12. That's versatile!

 

[two fingers]

So far what I can tell you is this:
I can make the WD do an MBF impression that works for me.
And, I can get a lot more different genres of sounds out of the very broad eq capabilities of the WD.

As with the 800+, it works well no matter what cabs I've tried it with.

If you like the mbf series and/or the 800+, I'm pretty sure you'll find a lot to like about the WD.

Yeah, I realize there have been some tweaks made to the EQ points (as well as other "stuff") from the Walkabout to the WD.

But having a several year love affair with the Walkabout, I can tell you that EQ section is powerful stuff. And it gets a long well with (literally) every single cab I have ever tried it with.

I have no reason to believe the WD is any different in that regard.

 

[CaptainWally]

Wow, the Walkabout is revered by many. I remember thinking it was a cool "mini" amp back in the day, and I played through one a couple of times, but it never struck me as the holy grail of tone or anything. I wish I paid more attention at the time.