• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

The 3rd in basslines

#41
iona bass said:
Hi Phil Smith,
Try panning full Left Channel for the first 10 seconds - it sounds like 3rds, not 10ths, (to me) in the bass.
I could be mistaken...
Thanks,
don kasper
Click to expand...

Could be, but tangential to why I posted the video. These 3rds or 10ths aren't why I posted the video, it's the bass lines that are using thirds that are my reason for posting it as an example.
 
#44
Whousedtoplay said:
Yes you are correct about two split (Pan) channels but played by the same Keyboard/Clavinet instrument, again it's only MY OPINION (and probably I'm very wrong about it),
but I'm "stubbornly" keep pushing my vision that the true bass guitar starts just before 11 sec. with a different tone, different "punch", different sound saturation, etc...

On the other hand, I cannot understand those "doublestop" thirds in the Intro, and it does not matter who plays them.
Click to expand...

If you Watch his hands, it is impossible that it goes so low when he stays pretty much in the middle of the keyboard
 
#45
Cougar said:
Hey Guys,

Here on TB and elsewhere, I often see suggestions for constructing baselines using roots, 5th, octave, but not 3rds.
Click to expand...

I'll stick w/ this part of the question. Malcolm, Joce, and a few others touched on it. The suggestion(s) you are seeing probably have to do with constructing a bass line for someone who may not be that comfortable with the concept yet. The use of roots, 5th, and octaves, in the words of Patrick Pfeiffer, are "ambiguous". These note choices will fit over most chords you'd be faced with (major, minor, dominant). Obviously, if it's a vii chord with a flat 5, then no. Mark Smith (talking bass.net) has a video about constructing bass lines using chord tones, and he starts out w/ roots, then roots & 5th, etc.

If there are a lot of chord changes within a song, it's easier to "keep up" if you just focus on these notes. Obviously, chord tones such as 3rds & 7ths also have their places to add flavor to a line, but you have to know more about the chord qualities that you're playing. Or, as Malcolm wrote, you have to think a little more.
 
#46
Whousedtoplay said:
The video with Stevie playing has a slightly different arrangement.
Stevie Wonder is backed by the the Mitchell Ayers Orchestra.
It does not have that low frequency bass "vibration" in the Intro.
I've posted a clip of the Intro from the original Stevie's recording from Transcribe.
We have a lot of TB members with Absolute/Perfect pitch. It should not be a problem for them to recognize all those Intro Tones, overtones, etc.

(Speed 70%, EQ - Bass Select, Semitones +12.)

https://static.talkbass.com/data/at.../1544707_03fd95cc93f395a2d1791840f7016cd0.mp3
Click to expand...

well ... in a recording you can had a s**t ton of effects that you can't reproduce live etc but whatever.
 
Last edited:
#51
Take the 3rd above the octave. Now you have a 10th. Think of the intro to Lou Reeds Walk On The Wild Side. How about Chuck Raineys bass intro on Steely Dans Peg. Paul Jackson on the Headhunters' Watermelon Man. These are all classic examples of using 10ths in bass lines. The sound is gorgeous and memorable. Any other examples you can think of?
The above mentioned tunes use the major 10th, however the minor 10th meaning the use of the b3rd above the octave is also wonderfully poignant in a bass line. How about Bob Babbitts playing on Marvin Gaye's Inner Coty Blues, or Paul McCartney on Come Together. Check out all these tunes and get using 10ths in your own improvisations. They are a strong effect on to the music that you play. They are noticeable with plenty of nuance.
 
#53
Mushroo said:
Some people make dumb suggestions. It sounds in this case you might have listened to random bad advice that you should avoid the 3rd in your bass line. You should always feel free to discard questionable advice if you find it contradicts the actual music you know and love. Always trust your ears. If your ears are telling you that the bass plays 3rds in many styles of music, then your ears are probably correct. :)
Click to expand...
Often, when I play I locate the root and then my musical "ear" takes over. I then hold down the foundation of the groove and lock in with the kick drum. Afterwhich, I will add some musical "flavor" to spice up the bottom end. I like to add some bends in the upper register as well as melodic phrases along the way.:)
 
#54
buldog5151bass said:
The third is more of a passing tone - think of going from a C to an F chord, the E note draws you to the fourth. Same way an B or D flat note gets you back to the C chord. Half steps are used more for chord resolution.

Straight rock tends to use less voice leading, so less use of these notes.

Root/fifth may be more boring, but also less idiot proof.
Click to expand...

But should we as bass players be using the third to emphasize the major minor sound of the chord. That's what thirds and sevenths do.
 
#55
with piano/keyboard most of the lesson books will tell you a 3rd in the bass implies a different chord (just because of they way that chords are constructed by building up 3rd intervals), but that's not always a bad thing.

a lot of bass instruction books get into more 'melodic' bass lines by starting out a bar on the 3, but usually the 'safe' instruction is to hit the root on the next strong beat, but real transcriptions don't often bother much with safe

Todd Johnson provides a pattern in the exercises at the end of his walking bass book part two for 'Autumn Leaves' and 'All the Things You Are' that cycle through the chord changes going up 1 3 5 7 and down 3 1 7 5 that I really like ex |Cm7| to |F7| |C Eb G Bb | A F Eb C| -- very Bach like -- lots of common notes -- and you're in position to continue the pattern with Bb7 and Ebmaj7 -- what's not to like?
 
#57
smeet said:
Gospel uses a lot of inversions, and 3rd in the bass is one of the best sounds
Click to expand...

I think the important takeaway should be that a 3rd in the bass -- implying a first-inversion chord voicing -- is a very specific sound; you don't want to use it indiscriminantly, rather you want to use it intentionally and judiciously. Use it where you want that sound. Don't use it unless the music warrants it.

That's probably the reason why some folks will tell you not to use it. A more common rule (sic) I've heard is "don't play the third on a downbeat" (or on the first beat of a new chord change) because, again, that implies a very specific sounding inversion. But on a weaker beat? (e.g., second beat of a walking bassline in 4/4) hell, Imma play da crap outta dat dere third scale degree!
 
#58
JamPlay said:
Take the 3rd above the octave. Now you have a 10th. Think of the intro to Lou Reeds Walk On The Wild Side. How about Chuck Raineys bass intro on Steely Dans Peg. Paul Jackson on the Headhunters' Watermelon Man. These are all classic examples of using 10ths in bass lines. The sound is gorgeous and memorable. Any other examples you can think of?
Click to expand...
"Shining Star"- EW&F...the chorus


In addition to "Peg", Rainey does some more on "Josie".
Here's a lesser known Rainey gem from Richard Tee's Strokin' album. The intro has some very Rainey-esque 10ths-
 
  • Like
Reactions: Whousedtoplay
#59
I love 10ths. But it is such a strong and distinctive sound, you have to be selective about where you use it. That and the tritone of major 3rd and dominant 7th are wonderful "colors" to throw into a line or fill. It catches the listener's ear without losing the essential "bass" feel or groove.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back