The BAD Myth - Detuning Basses and Shipping Them!

[todd 4ta]

I sold my G&L Tribute L2500 to a guy in Singapore, and per his request I removed the neck. I then loosened the truss rod half a turn.

Also, FWIW, airplanes are only pressurized to the equivalent of 8000 feet above sea level. One of the big selling points for the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner is that it pressurizes to the equivalent of 6000 feet, which is a good bit more comfortable for passengers.

All I know is that when flying jumpseat on a FedEx plane it's quite a bit colder and not as comfortable as when I'm on a passenger flight. I don't know what our planes are pressurized at (8000 ft or higher?). Also, the box is in a somewhat sealed shipping container surrounded by other boxes (hopefully not too many heavy ones on top!) - which should lessen the environmental impact on the bass (I'm guessing).

I was thinking about MythBusters also. They did bust the myth of the Brown Note....

 

[Quadzilla]

Wish some more builders would chime in here (or even some retail bass shops)...

 

[Rockman]

I think this myth should be sent to mythbusters. Then we could watch them screw up some bass, hopefully the would choose some cheap brand.

 

[64jazzbass]

I've shipped and recieved over 100 guitars and basses and always detune. In fact Ive taken necks off of guitars and basses and let them sit in the closet for months and years while repairing and restoring bodies without loosening the trussrod and never had a neck warp. Anyone who's ever seen a crack in a headstock across the E string tuner would have to think it's a good thing to relieve a little tention on the strings before shipping. Do manufactuters like Sadowsky and Tobias ship basses ant 440 pitch? Just wondering.



Edit:In fact Ive taken necks off of guitars and basses and let them sit in the closet for months and years while repairing and restoring bodies without loosening the trussrod and never had a neck warp.

Providing the neck was straight to start with.

I've had at least 3 Sadowsky's shipped to me tuned to A440, and amazingly enough, one of them was virtually in perfect tune when I received it.

 

[Bloodfist]

Well get a load of this for D-tuning a bass then shipping it. I bought my rebop off of instrument exchange for a great price. When I recieved it, all the strings were flopping off the neck except for the D string which had been intentionally cut right at the tuner and lthey left the string still rapped around it. My first impression of course was ***? Then I began to worry that something was wrong with the neck and they didn't want me to find out immediately. I immediately sat down and changed the strings, and sure enough the D string wasn't even playable. The truss rod had even been loosened almost completely. Instrument exchange has a 48 hour return policy so basically I had to act fast to decide whether or not to keep the bass. I took it to my guitar Tech who told me it cold be set up properly, so I let him keep it. I was supposed to get it back the next day, but he got sick and had the bass with him, so basically I went past the 48 hour limit and had to put all my trust in him. I told him to just keep the bass and make sure it's done right. He took about a week with it to make sure nothing would warp, and gave it a clean bill of health. It still plays great, but I called up instrument exchange and reamed them for shipping me a bass in that condition. Thankfully, it looks and sounds brand new now, but that's the last time I order from them.

 

[thedarkone]

Ok, hope this helps.. Just got back from Mike Tobia's, here is his opinion... You can go either way.. He chooses to ship his basses tuned a440.. He also ships next day in the winter.. if the customer will only pay for ground and it is a long trip, meaning over a week, he will detune AND loosen the truss rod.. this is not so much because of weather, only because the bass will be bounced around for days on end and there is a sleight chance of headstocks snapping off.. ALTHOUGH, he says this is a very rare occurance.. He pretty much insists on shipping overnight, tuned a44o..again, it is very rare that he will detune and it is a absolute must that the trust rod be loosened if detuned..
So basically its really up to you and the shipper, either way is fine.. This was also confirmed by Chris "lumpy" Hoffschneider Mikes right hand man.. Chris has been Ritchie Samboras guitar tech for the past 20 years as well as countless other artists..

 

[metallutca]

I have bought 2 basses online and this is what I expereinced:

1) Warwick Corvette $$ 4 string bought from an online store in Australia. They told me it was setup prefectly and in tuned prior to shipment using FedEx. The neck was horribly warped when I recieved it and it would not straightened even the strings were removed. I sent the neck back and they replaced a new one to me.

2) Fender American Deluxe Jazz (ash) 4 string bought from Bass Central. I asked then to detune but they didn't (you know why). The neck was warped when I received it but still can be setup properly (the trussrod was almost maximum in tension).

I lived in Malaysia (a hot and humid country) and have received fault basses from America and Australia. Maybe they shipped it in winter (who knows...)

From reading all the above posts, my next bass should be detuned (a little) and have the trussrod loosened.

 

[arbarnhart]

So there is anecdotal evidence either way. I think if the neck is going to warp from relieving string pressure then I don't want that bass. It's a bad neck. They can't ship necks under tension if you get one to replace that bad one. Besides, I might work on the bass at some point (upgrades, refinish, etc) and need the strings off for a few days. Getting a lower rate of returns doesn't necessarily mean that it's a better way to do it if it is hiding problems that would have resulted in a return.

I have bought 2 basses online and this is what I expereinced:

1) Warwick Corvette $$ 4 string bought from an online store in Australia. They told me it was setup prefectly and in tuned prior to shipment using FedEx. The neck was horribly warped when I recieved it and it would not straightened even the strings were removed. I sent the neck back and they replaced a new one to me.

2) Fender American Deluxe Jazz (ash) 4 string bought from Bass Central. I asked then to detune but they didn't (you know why). The neck was warped when I received it but still can be setup properly (the trussrod was almost maximum in tension).

I lived in Malaysia (a hot and humid country) and have received fault basses from America and Australia. Maybe they shipped it in winter (who knows...)

From reading all the above posts, my next bass should be detuned (a little) and have the trussrod loosened.

 

[Bryan316]

The two guitars my brother got from Ebay deals, a Jackson 7-string flying V and an ESP LTD F207, were shipped in tune and were just fine. The Ibanez he ordered from Ishibashi in Japan was shipped in tune, and it was fine. My black Ibanez SR-305 from Ebay was shipped in tune, and it too was fine.

I've got no issues with tuned shipping. It makes complete logic that the strings should balance out any interior stresses from the truss rod. And if it warps, it was a crappy neck in the first place and predestined to warp no matter what you do to save it.

I also believe in double-packing instruments. Wrap that axe in bubble-wrap, box it with plenty of padding to keep the headstock from shifting side to side, then stuff that box into a larger box filled with wadded up newspaper and/or packing paper. Bouncing Betty's at the shipyard will be saved by bubble-wrap, but NOT from a sharp corner of a table, or a box-cutter's blade, or a dropped screwdriver, or excess weight from other boxes stacked on top of it.

If you're planning to ship a valuable instrument (something worth more than a garage sale donation) then go get a refidgerator box and chop it up to make a larger box around the existing box. It ain't hard to do, and provides far superior protection. That extra 1 to 1-1/2 inches around the inside box will help dissipate energy from bouncing, and from objects puncturing it.

 

[ggunn]

If you really think about it, detuning an instrument to ship it makes as much sense as detuning it to put it in a trailer (or whatever you use to transport band equipment) to go to a show. I would imagine you would have the same amount of bumps and such on the way to a show as shipping it.

The reasoning behind detuning is (I have always heard) that the cargo compartment of a FedEx (or whatever) jet is not climate controlled, and the temperature at their cruising altitude can get far below zero Fahrenheit. The coefficient of linear expansion (and contraction) with temperature is a lot more for steel than it is for wood, and I knew one guy who claimed that the resultant increase in string tension due to the low temperature in a cargo compartment of a jet snapped the headstock off a guitar he shipped (or checked, I don't remember) without detuning it.

But it's all, um, anecdotal evidence, though... ;^)

 

[Poop-Loops]

If the strings contract and cause more tension, you'd think the truss rod would compact and cause more tension.

If you detune the strings and not the truss rod, then wouldn't that also mean the truss rod is destroying the neck by being too tight?

 

[Showdown]

The reasoning behind detuning is (I have always heard) that the cargo compartment of a FedEx (or whatever) jet is not climate controlled, and the temperature at their cruising altitude can get far below zero Fahrenheit. The coefficient of linear expansion (and contraction) with temperature is a lot more for steel than it is for wood, and I knew one guy who claimed that the resultant increase in string tension due to the low temperature in a cargo compartment of a jet snapped the headstock off a guitar he shipped (or checked, I don't remember) without detuning it.

But it's all, um, anecdotal evidence, though... ;^)

I've flown with basses in the cargo compartment many times, tuned to pitch, and never had a serious problem. 9 hours to Korea, 7 hours to Japan, and between Hawaii and the mainland. The only problem I had, and it was a minor one, was when I took a Fender P-Lyte to Japan (they have notoriously unstable necks) and had to adjust the truss rod when I got there. No damage at all, just the truss rod was too tight when I got there and the strings were touching the frets. If the cold makes the string tension tighter then it made the truss rod even tighter than that. It only took an 1/8 turn of the truss rod to correct. Unfortunately I had neglected to bring an allen wrench, and had to make a rush trip to a guitar store in Yokohama to find one because we had a gig that night, but that is a seperate issue....

 

[Papersen]

That`s a problem for me.
Since shipping costs are too high to this side of the globe, I`ve sometimes requested to ship the body and neck separately. That reduces shipping cost quite a bit.
I always take my basses to my luthier after that for a full setup, so although it`s not the best option, still suits my needs (pocket) better.

 

[AndyMan]

every bass I've bought from a private seller that was detuned had a neck warp at the 2 and 3rd frets.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Except it works the other way. The warmer the strings, the LESS tension they have. In the cold, they tighten up. If you've ever picked up a cold bass on stage and started in playing, you'll notice that the pitch drops as the strings heat up.

Then what would happen at high altitude flying? Just curious.

 

[Brad Johnson]

What I meant by design was: material, # of laminates, headstock angle, etc.

An angled headstock which is created simply by cutting out the appropriate profile from the blank will not be as strong as one created with a scarf joint, all other factors kept the same.

You know, I've heard that fairly often and the only necks I've personally ever had headstock issues were scarf-jointed. Granted they may have been poorly executed.

Kevin Brubaker does what I think most would consider a pretty "interesting" demo of the strength of his necks, which are one piece* and angled. Holding his personal bass vertical while it rests on the floor, he slams it face down first, then from the other side. Then, when the bass is laying face up on the floor, he stands on the neck.



It's fun watching people watch him do it the first time.




*plus fingerboard

 

[Gard]

Wish some more builders would chime in here (or even some retail bass shops)...

OK.



We ship every single bass, to every single dealer, US or internationally, tuned to standard pitch. Doesn't matter if it's ground, air, air cargo, or pack mule.

Further, before I came to work here in Roscoe heaven, I worked at Bass Central for 5 years, and in that time we never recieved ONE bass that was not tuned to standard pitch.

Let me repeat this for emPHAsis (on the wrong sylLAble):

Not ONE bass that was not tuned to standard pitch.

Look at the BC website, note all of the high-end luthiers represented there.

Not ONE ships "detuned".



The explaination that someone gave (sorry, can't remember which poster) about the balance in the system of tension between the trussrod and the strings is dead on. Change one, you must change the other. Change anything, and you'll have to do a full setup on the other end of the trip on the brown truck. If you detune and don't loosen the trussrod, it won't DEFINITELY cause a problem, but it will increase the likelyhood of something going wrong, and to no benefit to the instrument being shipped.

Like another poster, at one time, I traveled a good bit with my basses, and when shipping them, NEVER detuned them, and never had the first problem.

Don't detune when shipping, it gives no positive effect, and MAY cause some negative ones.

On the side issue of scarf joints, they're fine if correctly executed. Just ask Mike Tobias, Rob Elrick, Joey & Vinnie at Fodera. All of 'em have some kind of glue joint in their headstock somewhere. Roscoes used to, and it was done with multi-laminate necks with no trouble at all.

Brad, great story. The first day I was here working, Keith did something similar to drive home the point to me. He took a "B" neck (one that we'd never sell), laid it fingerboard up on the ground, and had me stand on it at the angle where the headstock joins the neck. You've met me, that's a lotta stress, right??? It didn't BUDGE. He then instructed me (which took some convincing) to JUMP up and down on it until it broke. It took about 3 good solid jump up and SLAM my feet down attempts before the wood finally complained and cracked a bit. Maple & purpleheart are strong stuff.

 

[metallutca]

So there is anecdotal evidence either way. I think if the neck is going to warp from relieving string pressure then I don't want that bass. It's a bad neck. They can't ship necks under tension if you get one to replace that bad one. Besides, I might work on the bass at some point (upgrades, refinish, etc) and need the strings off for a few days. Getting a lower rate of returns doesn't necessarily mean that it's a better way to do it if it is hiding problems that would have resulted in a return.

I've had the Warwick for a year and a half and the Fender for about 6 months. My 2 other basses (Esp LTD B-205 & Ibanez SRX500) have no neck issues whatsoever. They cost less but more reliable. I guess maybe it's just bad luck

 

[Cliff Bordwell]

Wish some more builders would chime in here (or even some retail bass shops)...

You should ship your bass tuned to pitch.
A correctly set up bass is capable of having
the neck perfectly straight (and adjustable for relief to personal preference)
when tuned to pitch and the truss rod(s) is adjusted.
There would be quite a few negatives if you loosened the
strings before shipping.


The bass is designed for the neck to be straight when tuned
to pitch. My neck straightening process is done while tuned
to pitch. So it is best to keep the bass in that playing
condition to not put unwanted stress on the neck woods. Basically
keeping the tension from the strings and truss rod where
they should be keeps the neck right where it was made to be.

 

[sokolasty]

If I should not de-tune guitar for shiping, should I then change strings one by another, i.e. take E down and put new E in, then D etc? Frankly, I have never done like that, only all 4 strings down and then all 4 new in.