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The BAD Myth - Detuning Basses and Shipping Them!

#21
jobo4 said:
Yes.

And I don't think anyone is saying that taking the string tension out will definately result in a warped/damaged neck, just that detuning is not necessary. Again, if you reduce the string tension it is a good idea to loosen the truss rod.

BOTOH, none of the afore mentioned scenarios will guarantee either damage or safety, so go figure.:hmm:
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FWIW the MTD that was delivered to my door last week was not tuned to pitch only the B string was close 2 strings were almost slack. as far as neck warp the first post states"Grasshopper (manager at Bass Central) confirmed this and also stated they had received many warped necks due to people detuning them and shipping them that way."
Ive never seen one but I'm sure grasshopper has recieved a lot more basses than I.

"If you really think about it, detuning an instrument to ship it makes as much sense as detuning it to put it in a trailer (or whatever you use to transport band equipment) to go to a show. I would imagine you would have the same amount of bumps and such on the way to a show as shipping it."

This is true, if on your way to a gig your bass is unloaded and tossed on a conveyer by some guy who has no idea an exspensive bass is in the box. Then tossed on another truck and bounced across country with other boxes stacked on top of it. Loaded and unloded 2 or 3 more times and dropped on someones front porch. then taken to the gig.
Mine just ride to the gig on my back seat;)

"Detuned or not, the most important thing is to use packing material around the headstock to make sure the neck can't move up and down inside the case while it is being shipped"
+10000

JMHO but I think some types of bass construction lend themselves to shipping problems(can you say scarf joint?) But a well made bass could probebly withstand a crosscountry trip wrapped in a plastic bag and not suffer any more damage than a bent tuner or broken knob.

So please cut me some slack( on all the strings when shipping me a guitar).:hyper:
 
#22
I always figured that detuning (not slacking, but down a half step or so) was good because of some of the extreme temperature changes that a shipped instrument can go through. Especially in the summer: the back of a ups truck (both a semi and their delivery trucks) can get super hot, well in excess of 100 degrees. Is that good for strings and a neck tensioned to proper pitch?
 
#24
todd 4ta said:
I have no idea where that concept came from - but I think it really only related to basses that were flying. Maybe the lower air pressure on an aircraft would effect movement of the neck (???)
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Seems highly implausible to me.

Some of these so-called Urban Myths seem to defy both logic and common sense. Then again, that's probably why my brother likes to say "The two most abundant elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity!"
 
#25
Someone in the legal department of one of the shipping companies probably worried about the liability of a string on a bass guitar popping. There are certain words that automatically set off shipping companies. "Tension" is one of them.

BTW, I want nothing to do with an instrument neck that warps just because it had string tension taken off it.
 
#26
Jeff Moote said:
A (well executed) scarf joint is almost invariably stronger than the same design without.

Also, FWIW I ship tuned to pitch.
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I think I need some education here( and really I'm not trying to be a smart aleck). The scarf joint IS the design, How can a scarf joint be stronger than a scarf joint without the scarf joint?
 
#27
Jumbotron said:
I always figured that detuning (not slacking, but down a half step or so) was good because of some of the extreme temperature changes that a shipped instrument can go through. Especially in the summer: the back of a ups truck (both a semi and their delivery trucks) can get super hot, well in excess of 100 degrees. Is that good for strings and a neck tensioned to proper pitch?
Click to expand...


Except it works the other way. The warmer the strings, the LESS tension they have. In the cold, they tighten up. If you've ever picked up a cold bass on stage and started in playing, you'll notice that the pitch drops as the strings heat up.
 
#28
BurningSkies said:
Except it works the other way. The warmer the strings, the LESS tension they have. In the cold, they tighten up. If you've ever picked up a cold bass on stage and started in playing, you'll notice that the pitch drops as the strings heat up.
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In the winter my Kramer Aluminum neck would go sharp what seemed like a half step by the end of the first set.
 
#29
BurningSkies said:
Except it works the other way. The warmer the strings, the LESS tension they have. In the cold, they tighten up. If you've ever picked up a cold bass on stage and started in playing, you'll notice that the pitch drops as the strings heat up.
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An airplane cargo hold is very cold, so it would follow that the string tension will rise when shipped by air. I still keep string tension on and have never had a problem.
 
#30
Bone said:
I think I need some education here( and really I'm not trying to be a smart aleck). The scarf joint IS the design, How can a scarf joint be stronger than a scarf joint without the scarf joint?
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What I meant by design was: material, # of laminates, headstock angle, etc.

An angled headstock which is created simply by cutting out the appropriate profile from the blank will not be as strong as one created with a scarf joint, all other factors kept the same.
 
#32
Jeff Moote said:
What I meant by design was: material, # of laminates, headstock angle, etc.

An angled headstock which is created simply by cutting out the appropriate profile from the blank will not be as strong as one created with a scarf joint, all other factors kept the same.
Click to expand...

I agree %100, but %99 of guitars and basses built with a scarf joint are constructed that way to save money with 2 pieces of maple simply cut and glued. I'm not sure if it's done for tone or ease of construction but offhand I can't think of any High end builders that use a scarf joint. The two builders I work with use 5 or 7 piece laminate necks cut from 1 piece with a volute. My DP custom looks like it has some kind of scarf joint with the laminates misalighned.

This thread is kind of fun, I wonder if we could get those guys from Myth Busters try to break a couple Boutique Basses.
 
#33
Bone said:
I agree %100, but %99 of guitars and basses built with a scarf joint are constructed that way to save money with 2 pieces of maple simply cut and glued. I'm not sure if it's done for tone or ease of construction but offhand I can't think of any High end builders that use a scarf joint. The two builders I work with use 5 or 7 piece laminate necks cut from 1 piece with a volute. My DP custom looks like it has some kind of scarf joint with the laminates misalighned.
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I get where you're coming from now. I've got 2 "high end" basses with scarf joints - Rob Allen does them, and very well, I might add. My older Roscoe also has a scarf joint, but unlike your DP all the laminates are lined up perfectly, etc.

As an aside, Roscoe has changed their construction to leave out the scarf joint now. With the construction of their necks, I can't imagine it mattering since they're so solid as it is.
 
#34
Jeff Moote said:
I get where you're coming from now. I've got 2 "high end" basses with scarf joints - Rob Allen does them, and very well, I might add. My older Roscoe also has a scarf joint, but unlike your DP all the laminates are lined up perfectly, etc.

As an aside, Roscoe has changed their construction to leave out the scarf joint now. With the construction of their necks, I can't imagine it mattering since they're so solid as it is.
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Thank you, now I'm getting educated. The reason I mention scarf joints is the last 2 shippig repairs I've done have been scarf joints with clean breaks on 2 inexspensive import basses. Both necks were cut with a long angle and shaved pretty thin.
 
#35
Bone said:
In the winter my Kramer Aluminum neck would go sharp what seemed like a half step by the end of the first set.
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Yes, but we're talking steel or nickel/steel strings, not aluminum necks. As strings heat, pitch goes down.

Metal tends to expand when warming and contracts in the cold. I would guess that your aluminum neck was exhibiting this expansion by increasing in length and possibly backbowing too, thus raising pitch.

Of course, the other thing here is that by mixing materials that have different physical characteristics, ie. expand and contract at different rates, you can run into problems.

Still, I'll take my shipped basses up to pitch.
 
#36
todd 4ta said:
Maybe the lower air pressure on an aircraft would effect movement of the neck (???) I ship my basses by UPS Ground, so I have no idea why they would need to be detuned. SOP I guess...
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I just thought I'd add my twenty-two cents . . . an aircraft has pressurized cabins to maintain atmospheric pressure that people (and guitars) are accustomed to. Also, there is this same pressure in the containment compartments where luggage and shipping items are stored during flight.

My thoughts are that it makes NO difference whatsoever as to if it is better or worse to keep a bass neck/strings under tension or to let the neck flap in the breeze. It isn't going to hurt the bass under either circumstance.

I'd be more concerned with changing weather and altitudes because tuning and intonation setups are going to change with the wind~! Get used to the fact that tuning (or checking your tuning) should probably be a routine performed before any performance . . . and adjustments to your intonation may be in order as well. Consider yourself lucky if you are in tune.

My thoughts on shipping a bass, as a luthier, I send them tuned because I like the idea that the person receiving the bass will open the package and it will be ready to go. It makes for a better presentation. And it shows that the necessary intonation work was done prior to shipping the equipment.

I've sent them detuned and have been asked if the bass was properly set up. To this makes me always ship a bass fully tuned.
 
#37
How many people here have ever had a neck warp in transit because it was down tuned? So far all I've heard was the guy from the BP article. It's nice to throw theories back and forth, but does anyone have a real life experience? I've shipped tons of basses and had tons shipped to me. The ones that had the strings slackened always just needed to be tuned up. The few that have arrived to me in tune have always needed a setup. I'm not saying a neck can't warp if shipped with the strings slackened, I'm just saying I've never experienced this. If anyone has, please post and tell us about it. And if you did receive a bass with a warped neck, are you sure it wasn't warped before being shipped? Did the guy at Bass Central know this about the basses he received with warped necks? I mean these as real questions, not snotty rhetoric.


Mike
 
#39
I have received basses tuned, detuned, and fully slacked. It never seemed to make a difference to the functionality of the neck. Pretty much every bass needed a bit of setup after arriving, regardless of method, but none suffered.
 
#40
I sold my G&L Tribute L2500 to a guy in Singapore, and per his request I removed the neck. I then loosened the truss rod half a turn.

Also, FWIW, airplanes are only pressurized to the equivalent of 8000 feet above sea level. One of the big selling points for the new Boeing 787 Dreamliner is that it pressurizes to the equivalent of 6000 feet, which is a good bit more comfortable for passengers.
 

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