The Band Lost A Gig…

[dbsfgyd1]

Generally speaking, I don't deal with discord well. That's why I'm a bassist and my art is all about reconciliation.

After the first blow up, I would have gone to the BL and just said this is not professional behavior and it need to stop or I'm gone. That behavior should never ever ever happen at the job site. New guy or not, their stench is on you as well.

As for the sound guy, it's OK to be gruff as he has a lot on his plate and it's not exactly an easy job. He probably has a lot of very expensive gear where there are customers in various stages of intoxication sloshing beverages around like a car wash. I wouldn't be surprised if something on this order was the root cause of his interaction.

That said, he needs to realize that he is there for the benefit of the paying customers which are in turn paying him to provide his service. No customers, no gigs, no pay. At a minimum, the BL should ask him ( not tear into him) what the facts were of the situation, then take the appropriate action.

Hope you all get it sorted out because you may be working a lot now, but based on your story it's not for long.

 

[Reedt2000]

I'd encourage everyone involved to remember who you're working for. Something like live karaoke is done to attract people, give them an enjoyable experience, make them want to come back, and most importantly sell drinks and food. None of the band, or associated people, are there for artistic expression, or personal fulfillment, you're there so the venue makes more money than if you weren't.

If there are interpersonal conflicts, equipment issues (which, let's face it, happen to the best of us), anything that breeds frustration or negative feelings... sit on it until you are far away from your employer. While you're there smile, take things in stride, show concern for the wellbeing of the business, be as accommodating to the patrons as you can be, encourage tipping of the staff, promote the other things coming up at the venue, start and end on time, these are the things that keep you coming back. Band drama has zero place at a gig.

 

[coy garcia]

That's a very bad situation....I wouldn't care how good a player they are if they can't bring a positive attitude to a venue. People are out to have a good time and the band must set the example. Best of luck in dealing with it.

 

[KenSmithFan]

Sure, blame the problem on other people.

Yeah, tell the manager that their wait staff and patrons are a bunch of snowflakes and need to toughen up. That will get you more gigs.

 

[Core Creek]

I DESPISE "live band karaoke" and refused to do them, years ago.

I don't know why - we have a lot of fun doing them.

 

[richntiff]

Details or it didn't happen. Some people are far too sensitive these days.

If they said it happened, then it happened. Who cares what your perception or assessment of people's feelings and reactions are? Nobody. The venue is paying the bill - so they get to decide what happened, and if it's a problem or not. Clearly, in this case, it was a problem.

 

[Core Creek]

Details or it didn't happen. Some people are far too sensitive these days.

I get that more details would help - I don't have them. But "details or it didn't happen" is actually a false statement. Just because I wasn't given details doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I know this particular sound guy has had a bad attitude in the past. My first few gigs with him he was a bit of a butthead, and he recently was a butthead to a new singer. But I'm always capable of winning people over and he's decent enough with me. But I'm pretty sure he's been a problem in the past.

BL informed us that a few upcoming private events are going to be handled by a second Soundguy we use from time to time who is much easier to work with.

 

[richntiff]

I don't know why - we have a lot of fun doing them.

I'd love to do a live band karaoke - sounds like a fun challenge!

 

[DJ Bebop]

Generally speaking, I don't deal with discord well. That's why I'm a bassist and my art is all about reconciliation.

After the first blow up, I would have gone to the BL and just said this is not professional behavior and it need to stop or I'm gone. That behavior should never ever ever happen at the job site. New guy or not, their stench is on you as well.

As for the sound guy, it's OK to be gruff as he has a lot on his plate and it's not exactly an easy job. He probably has a lot of very expensive gear where there are customers in various stages of intoxication sloshing beverages around like a car wash. I wouldn't be surprised if something on this order was the root cause of his interaction.

That said, he needs to realize that he is there for the benefit of the paying customers which are in turn paying him to provide his service. No customers, no gigs, no pay. At a minimum, the BL should ask him ( not tear into him) what the facts were of the situation, then take the appropriate action.

Hope you all get it sorted out because you may be working a lot now, but based on your story it's not for long.

Is this you guys?

 

[Core Creek]

How long did it take for the on-stage arguments to become pretty normal?

Well, my understanding is there has been bad blood for ages. I think this band has been together for almost 14 years. The guitarist quit for awhile and came back and has been with the band for several years now.

I have witnessed at least two pretty heated arguments - one of which the guitarist basically said I quit - only to be at the next gig. I think the previous gig at the venue that just got cancelled I was out the door before it happened.

So clearly there's a history of arguing.

 

[Beej]

It takes two to have an argument, so the BL is also getting into it here if there's a back and forth. The BL should also clam up and discuss it later when others can't overhear. Regarding the soundguy, that would have me up the wall in a second. A complaint from a single patron could be explained by something in the interaction. If there are complaints from more than one patron and also waitstaff, that's a clear pattern of communication that is unlikely to change without significant other changes or inputs and a desire to change on his part. I would personally probably not waste any more time with him as he will likely do this again and as said, it impacts the band as a whole.

I think I might reach out to the venue, take responsibility and apologize, express how much the band wants to play there and recommit to no further issues. Maybe even give them a discount for a next gig - let them know you also recognize that what happened is a non-starter and it won't be repeated. If its done, its done, but at least you tried.

I'm very grateful for the good groups of people I get to play with.

 

[Core Creek]

To expand a little bit about the dynamic, I definitely have my own opinions. But I'm not the BL, and I am the new guy in a pretty old band that successfully gigs regularly. I'm definitely hoping this puts the brakes on future stage BS, and at the least, I'm going to start calling the guitarist out more on bad attitudes - especially if it's anywhere near the audience. We don't typically get a "backstage" so everything is out in the open.

When I joined this band my initial impression was the BL was a jerk. Truth is, he probably is. But I figured him out pretty quickly. He's demanding, a little inconsistent and hypocritical, but he sings, plays guitar, does great on-the-spot song selections, and frankly gets us a lot of really good paying gigs. I appreciate the work he does, and I let him know I do.

My first few months with the band the guitarist and an occasional vocalist who played better gigs with us would badmouth the BL to me and at the time I sort of agreed with their complaints. But it didn't take long to realize the BL's issues with them were valid, and they just didn't seem to like doing the work.

A turning point for me with the band was when we were asked to learn a song for a private event with about a week's notice. The guitarist instantly responded there was no way it could be done on time. The BL said there was no need to learn the solo (Hotel California) and he'll get the other parts covered. The guitarist accused him of not being a team player and should have refused to do the song.

I privately texted the BL and said I didn't understand the attitude but it wasn't my place to say anything. He said I should. That he was the only person in the band that ever gave pushback and I should also speak my mind - so I did.

I texted that I didn't understand the issue. We get paid to play songs. I had just learned almost 300 songs to get up to par, and one song shouldn't be an issue. And the BL even took the solo off the plate… what am I missing….??

If course I was accused of not being a team player. But guess what? At that show the guitarist learned the whole song, including the solo and we nailed it. I was sure to text the next day and let the guitarist know I was impressed with the performance.

My overall impression is the rest of the band doesn't realize how good they have it. I've played in a lot of cover bands the last decade or so and this band has a lot going for it. The gigs are regular, the pay is good and the musicianship is great. And we never rehearse (it's an hour and a half drive to the drummer for me so it's not a good use of my time). It's not in my best interest to walk away… I know I won't find anything better anytime soon.

But finding a new guitarist is not going to be easy. With the busy season coming, it would seriously kill us. I think the best thing to do is start calling out negative attitudes at gigs and see if that improves things.

 

[KellyC]

If I owned a music venue, I would be very reluctant to contract with a band that bickers while on the job in my club, and I would have zero tolerance for ANY of their members or production staff being rude to my customers, or even for them drawing a fanbase that was rude.

It's a job, and unless Ritchie Blackmore is playing guitar, nobody is going to put up with the diva behavior.

 

[pepj]

Ime, the older guys either dont need the gig/money so don't mind ruffling a few feathers.
It may just be a case of saying something about nothing..but still they said it.
The guys that do need the gig but might be 'slumming' it because they dont gross enough in a higher profile gig to be able to turn this gig down are just moaners.
If they dont want to do it, I'd rather they just say...
But yep, its a thing...

 

[buldog5151bass]

Time for a sit down. Does the band want to keep losing good gigs, or start acting like adults?

 

[Jazzdogg]

… and we have ourselves to blame.

We've played a new venue about three times now - one of which was a live band karaoke. We were supposed to do another live band karaoke in a month or so but the venue sent a pretty terse cancellation notice a couple of days ago. It sort of took the band by surprise.

Well, the BL just informed us that he found out why. The last time we were there he and the guitarist got in a pretty heated argument at the end of the night. Honestly, I can't even remember what it was - they fight a lot at the end of the night in general. Additionally, they informed us that out sound guy was rude to patrons and wait staff.

As to the second issue, we all know our regular Soundguy can be pretty gruff. While the sound isn't perfect he gets the job done. But clearly this is going to have the BL rethinking things. I suspect though he's going to continue on with the guy and just ask him to adjust his attitude. That may… or may not work… we'll see. But finding a good Soundguy who can work as much as we do is tough.

As to the first issue, I already said I'll be the first one to step in and remind them not to air issues at venues if things get heated. Unfortunately though I'm always the first one out the door. It's sort of out of my hands.

My overall assessment though is pretty simple - the guitarist would rather complain than do the work and the BL is just frustrated. I tend to side with him on these issues. For example - there have been a couple of times the guitarist has walked into the venue after struggling to find parking and say "This is the last time I'm playing here". Or accuse the BL of not being a team player after the guitar player says they refuse to play a gig with a long drive.

I'm sure from all of our armchairs it's easy to say the guitar player is the problem and needs to go. But this band does well, plays often, and the guitarist brings a lot to the table when running on all cylinders. Unfortunately I'm the new guy and for a long time I held my tongue. Lately I haven't - I want this band to survive.

…. but sometimes it does feel like an uphill battle.

The only people I want to interact with on a gig are those whose behavior is positive, professional, and musical. You've described two people with chronic problems and made excuses for them, despite conspicuous and repeated failings in two areas. You get what you are willing to put up with. My question is: why are you willing to put up with this?

 

[Core Creek]

The only people I want to interact with on a gig are those whose behavior is positive, professional, and musical. You've described two people with chronic problems and made excuses for them, despite conspicuous and repeated failings in two areas. You get what you are willing to put up with. My question is: why are you willing to put up with this?

Read my follow up - there are far more pluses than minuses.

 

[alex1fly]

Musicians - can't gig with them, can't gig without them.

 

[tb-player]

… and we have ourselves to blame.

We've played a new venue about three times now - one of which was a live band karaoke. We were supposed to do another live band karaoke in a month or so but the venue sent a pretty terse cancellation notice a couple of days ago. It sort of took the band by surprise.

Well, the BL just informed us that he found out why. The last time we were there he and the guitarist got in a pretty heated argument at the end of the night. Honestly, I can't even remember what it was - they fight a lot at the end of the night in general. Additionally, they informed us that out sound guy was rude to patrons and wait staff.

As to the second issue, we all know our regular Soundguy can be pretty gruff. While the sound isn't perfect he gets the job done. But clearly this is going to have the BL rethinking things. I suspect though he's going to continue on with the guy and just ask him to adjust his attitude. That may… or may not work… we'll see. But finding a good Soundguy who can work as much as we do is tough.

As to the first issue, I already said I'll be the first one to step in and remind them not to air issues at venues if things get heated. Unfortunately though I'm always the first one out the door. It's sort of out of my hands.

My overall assessment though is pretty simple - the guitarist would rather complain than do the work and the BL is just frustrated. I tend to side with him on these issues. For example - there have been a couple of times the guitarist has walked into the venue after struggling to find parking and say "This is the last time I'm playing here". Or accuse the BL of not being a team player after the guitar player says they refuse to play a gig with a long drive.

I'm sure from all of our armchairs it's easy to say the guitar player is the problem and needs to go. But this band does well, plays often, and the guitarist brings a lot to the table when running on all cylinders. Unfortunately I'm the new guy and for a long time I held my tongue. Lately I haven't - I want this band to survive.

…. but sometimes it does feel like an uphill battle.

Do you feel like you could call a band meeting to discuss as a group? Sound person included? It might help to just air it all out and speak honestly. If your band is incapable of that, it's just a matter of time before it falls apart anyway.

 

[BassBrass]

I get that more details would help - I don't have them. But "details or it didn't happen" is actually a false statement. Just because I wasn't given details doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The "or it didn't happen" was just copying a TB meme, as in, no pic-no bass. I wouldn't discount a detailed report especially when there is a past pattern, but some vague "they" could also be a person who has expectations from a guy trying to do his job. I'm all for informing the person that "there have been ongoing complaints about you, what do you think about that?"