the Bat Bass

[James Mobius]

Awesome bass man. I have to say, I thought it was a dumb idea at first, because it just seemed like you were lowering the functionality of the bass, but I think it's pretty cool now that I've actually listened to Morphine.

And the thing looks cool as balls.

thank you very much! I listened to Morphine for years, I knew Mark played a 2 string but didn't realise he was using a slide until I started watching videos because even though we lived in the same city and I know people who knew him, I never got around to seeing them live, sadly. no one thought he'd drop dead at such a young age of a heart attack (he'd been stabbed when he was a cab driver and had problems ever since, it was not an OD).

Anyway, I was worried about the limitations of 2 strings, but there are all kinds of cool things you can do with it, I could see making a 3 string, but you'd need a neck radius like a cello to be able to use the slide on only 2 strings at a time, and that was more work than I was interested in doing for this build, tho I won't rule that out for the future (always innovating...) you really can do some very cool stuff with a 2 string slide bass, and in person the sound just blows me away, and there's no other way to get it. I'm not about to give up my 6 string basses! but I am definitely looking forward to finding a way to work this into my band, we don't play covers but I will write for it, and hope to do some kind of Morphine tribute show at some point. I should look for a Bari saxophonist, hmm, my alma mater Berklee, down the street, that shouldn't be too hard!

 

[James Mobius]

I am about to build a jazz bass, and the guy I am building for wants it to be "deep purple & orange"...

I've found some stains that come in red and blue, so I'd have to mix the two to arrive at purple.

Your bass looks freaking awesome, but it isn't purple enough, for me... Is this the most purple wood stain you've ever seen?

In the past, I have used "food coloring", but only on small projects. The color has always been deep and vibrant. I am however, VERY not at all sure I want to use the application on a bass body.

Have you ever seen or heard of using food coloring as a wood stain?

I would worry that food colouring would be likely to fade, it's made to be digestible, not made to last like an industrial product, do an experiment with some scraps of the type of wood you are planning to use, stain and slap some finish on it, then leave it in the sun for a week or 2, see how it holds up, cover part of it with black duct tape to protect it from the sun, or keep a sample in the dark for comparison.

check out this page of purple stained guitars
Purple Guitars - Ed Roman Guitars

at first I was not happy that the colour I ended up with was not as rich as the sample from Trans-tint's site, nor indeed the wood sample I saw in person at Rockler, and I'm not sure why the saturation seems so much paler than that sample, there are 2 options for thinning the dye, water and alcohol, I used alcohol, I think I'll do a test with water to see if it absorbs more colour.

when I sanded a couple of spots that had glue on them, the stain came up pretty easily too, which I did not expect, I should correct myself, I used DYE not Stain, specifically because I was informed stain sits on the surface and dye really penetrates the wood to last longer, but it appears that didn't happen. Maple is a hard wood, but there are plenty of figured maple instruments with deep colour in them.

so I don't have an answer yet, in the end I am satisfied with the bass and it's colour tho I originally wanted it to be deeper, I like the way it looks, somewhat faded and antiqued, my next build is going to be a red guitar, I mean 6 string ultra-piccolo bass guitar, and I really want it to be deeply saturated, so I will do more experimenting. let me know how it goes for you!

I will also add, the mahogany, before I put poly on it, if you scroll back you can see it looked almost exactly like purple heart, but now from some angles it looks quite brown, and clearly like mahogany, but if you tilt it you can see purple, this bass really looks very different depending on the angle you view it at, and the lighting conditions, sunlight/incandescent/flourescent.

also thanks for the compliment! I am part of a business networking group, as a handyman, that meets weekly and I brought this in for "show and tell" today, to demonstrate my carpentry skills, people loved it, one guy took a photo, I had to explain that yes I actually designed and built it myself. designed in about 5 minutes, built in about 5 weeks of spare time. it seemed like forever when I was sanding, but I won't remember that, I am just having a blast playing this thing!

 

[BartoliniBoss]

I would worry that food colouring would be likely to fade, it's made to be digestible, not made to last like an industrial product, do an experiment with some scraps of the type of wood you are planning to use, stain and slap some finish on it, then leave it in the sun for a week or 2, see how it holds up, cover part of it with black duct tape to protect it from the sun, or keep a sample in the dark for comparison.

check out this page of purple stained guitars
Purple Guitars - Ed Roman Guitars

...

also thanks for the compliment! I am part of a business networking group, as a handyman, that meets weekly and I brought this in for "show and tell" today, to demonstrate my carpentry skills, people loved it, one guy took a photo, I had to explain that yes I actually designed and built it myself. designed in about 5 minutes, built in about 5 weeks of spare time. it seemed like forever when I was sanding, but I won't remember that, I am just having a blast playing this thing!

Thanks for the tip, I never considered fading as an issue. All of the items I have put it on have been very guarded or protected from the sun. I could easily nab one of, and expose it for a while.

Minwax makes a series of Invalid Link Removed, of which I have tried most. But I always found the color dull and lifeless...

The stuff I have dyed with food coloring was bright and vibrant. It had the color density of a paint. I think it is because the wood just soaks it up.

Not to repeat myself, and others here, but your bat bass IS super cool. What, if you don't mind my asking, would one expect to sell such a thing for? (*Forgive me if it is uncooth to discuss prices, here. I am a noob.)

 

[James Mobius]

Thanks for the tip, I never considered fading as an issue. All of the items I have put it on have been very guarded or protected from the sun. I could easily nab one of, and expose it for a while.

Minwax makes a series of Invalid Link Removed, of which I have tried most. But I always found the color dull and lifeless...

The stuff I have dyed with food coloring was bright and vibrant. It had the color density of a paint. I think it is because the wood just soaks it up.

Not to repeat myself, and others here, but your bat bass IS super cool. What, if you don't mind my asking, would one expect to sell such a thing for? (*Forgive me if it is uncooth to discuss prices, here. I am a noob.)

I'm really not sure, I'm telling people I think it's worth $1,500 because that number feels right somehow, I lost track of the hours I put into it, and I don't understand why people are so afraid to talk about money, I charge $45 an hour for my time as a handyman, I probably put in over $2,000 worth of labour on this, but I was learning a lot at the time, the next one would go much faster I think, (especially if I clean my workshop!) it's been 27 years since I made a solid body bass. I do still use that one regularly so I must've done something right! I own one custom I had built for me back around 1990 by Lane Poor who used to work for Alembic, and I paid about $1,500 for that back then, a little less probably. that was a bargain too at the time.

if I had made this for someone else I would have taken much more care about a number of details that I'm just not that much of a perfectionist about, there are several spots where the poly built up while drying, I could sand them down but I am just not going to bother. got more important things to do with my time. like learn to play it! or rather, learn to play Morphine songs on it, playing it I have pretty well down at this point, but learning specific riffs and figuring out tunings and techniques is a fun challenge right now.

things are only worth as much as someone somewhere is willing to pay for them. you can say a new Alembic bass is worth $7,000, or you can say, that's what it costs. I would love one, but with my current net worth and income, and expenditures it's out of the picture for probably several years. tempted to build one... but I think I'd rather come up with my own design, though their design is always in the back of my head as an ideal to work off of, the tear drop shaped body, the "hips" I love looking at the Stanley Clarke model, or pics of my old Persuader, which I don't regret parting with, it only had one pickup and 4 strings, not really versatile enough for my needs, hopefully someone is enjoying it somewhere now. sorry for prattling on, apparently I need a nap.

hope that answered your question!

 

[BartoliniBoss]

... and I don't understand why people are so afraid to talk about money, ...

After reading the terms and conditions, it seems like the moderators and administrators have a full time job, trying to keep salesmen from outright invasion...

Discussing the sale price of a particular item might well be close to crossing a line of some sort.

I just wanted to exercise some caution.

I am still looking for the MOST purple stain available...the site you linked had some beautiful guitars, but they didn't answer when I tried to call.

 

[BluesBear]

... I am still looking for the MOST purple stain available...

Bart-Boss check out my comments in post #71.
The folks down at Warmoth have done some really nice Invalid Link Removed. They're pretty friendly down there so I wouldn't be afraid to give them a call. They do answer their phones. But don't forget that we're on left coast time.

 

[James Mobius]

After reading the terms and conditions, it seems like the moderators and administrators have a full time job, trying to keep salesmen from outright invasion...
Discussing the sale price of a particular item might well be close to crossing a line of some sort.
I just wanted to exercise some caution.

I see, hadn't thought of that, well I'm not a commercial luthier really, if someone wants me to build them something I'd certainly discuss it with them but I think they could find a superior craftsman without looking too far! d: and this one ain't for sale!

I was talking to a friend of mine today who does museum restoration, he speculated that people are really soaking the wood in the stain to get that deep colour, and suggested not diluting the stain, but I don't think I'll go that route at ten bucks an ounce, I might experiment with diluting it less though. also considering a veneer top for my next build, literally a veneer, there's a place near me that sells gorgeous wood that's about 1/32" thick, if I put that on top and stain it I might get a nice effect. I recall seeing a ridiculously gorgeous sheet of figured walnut there once that was not cheap, but much cheaper than it would have been at 3/4" thick!

let me know if you learn some staining secrets!

 

[James Mobius]

Bart-Boss check out my comments in post #71.
The folks down at Warmoth have done some really nice Invalid Link Removed. They're pretty friendly down there so I wouldn't be afraid to give them a call. They do answer their phones. But don't forget that we're on left coast time.

that is a gorgeous finish! that's really what I was going for on this build, and looks close to the sample on Trans-tint's site, as well as their sample on wood I saw in person at Rockler. I followed their instructions so not sure what went wrong, my buddy says maple just doesn't absorb colour, or that I needed to sand it to a glassy finish first, he speculated, but I dunno, I wouldn't think that would matter if it's supposed to be absorbed deeply into the wood because it's a dye, not a stain. Fortunately I am happy with the way it looks, but for my next purple bass I want to get a deeper result, and I don't want to ship it somewhere and have someone else do it, I like to be able to say I did it myself. it's not rocket science, and there's a deep satisfaction to making something yourself, for me anyway. (especially something purple! )

 

[BluesBear]

... I don't want to ship it somewhere and have someone else do it, I like to be able to say I did it myself.

That's why I reccomend Warmoth. They have always been extremely helpful giving advice and helpful hints to me over the phone.
They have the best customer service attitude in the business.
I think they will also either sell you some of their stain or hook you up with where ever they get it.

And NO I do not work for them. Nor do I personally know anyone working there. But I have been buying from them for over 20 years and have never been disappointed.
Case in point; I ordered a custom cut telecasrer scratchplate from them two weeks ago and it was THREE DAYS from the time I ordered it until UPS hand it in my hand. Chandler took TEN DAYS just to REPLY to my inquiry.

 

[James Mobius]

That's why I reccomend Warmoth. They have always been extremely helpful giving advice and helpful hints to me over the phone.
They have the best customer service attitude in the business.
I think they will also either sell you some of their stain or hook you up with where ever they get it.

And NO I do not work for them. Nor do I personally know anyone working there. But I have been buying from them for over 20 years and have never been disappointed.
Case in point; I ordered a custom cut telecasrer scratchplate from them two weeks ago and it was THREE DAYS from the time I ordered it until UPS hand it in my hand. Chandler took TEN DAYS just to REPLY to my inquiry.

very cool, thanks! I will bear that in mind.

 

[James Mobius]

Video;
I jammed with my band tonight and played the Bat bass, jammed on something I am working on, and played a song I wrote on fretless on the Bat bass, had to change the key, actually, I didn't realise I changed the key til my guitarist said "that song is in B not D" I said, "oh, can you play it in D?" so we did. I'll retune for the recording session. it was very fun. god, now I'm gonna have five bloody basses on stage with me! Might as well be in Sonic Youth. I shot some solo video of myself playing it, and the sound is not bad, but later I realised I had the wrong bi-amp setting on the head so I am going to try again probably Friday night, also I frankly want to be a little more solid on it before I post a clip of me playing it. stay tuned!

 

[BartoliniBoss]

Bart-Boss check out my comments in post #71.
The folks down at Warmoth have done some really nice Invalid Link Removed. They're pretty friendly down there so I wouldn't be afraid to give them a call. They do answer their phones. But don't forget that we're on left coast time.

Now THAT is "purple"...and exactly the color depth I want...

Warmoth is my newest love affair. Too bad I can't afford to buy one of everything.

 

[BartoliniBoss]

... I recall seeing a ridiculously gorgeous sheet of figured walnut there once that was not cheap, but much cheaper than it would have been at 3/4" thick!

let me know if you learn some staining secrets!

In high school, I had a lumber contact that sold "mill hewn lumber", straight out of their drying barn, at very reasonable prices. Everything was very rough, and there was no telling what you'd get- center cuts, quarter sawn, knots aplenty, or simply unworkable split or cracked boards. I'll contact my teacher, and see if I can get a contact number.

If course, if you have 5 years to wait, you could chop down your own tree, and have a mill cut it into boards for you. Curing them out however, will take some waiting.

I've started the food dye fading experiment... Should it go a week or a month?

 

[James Mobius]

...If course, if you have 5 years to wait, you could chop down your own tree, and have a mill cut it into boards for you. Curing them out however, will take some waiting.

I've started the food dye fading experiment... Should it go a week or a month?

Well I am growing a maple tree in my front yard, it started as a weed in my hedge, and it was right on the corner, I decided to let one grow upwards, rather than trim it with the hedges or pull it, that was some time within the last 8 years I think and it's now nearly as tall as the house! I might get a neck out of it now, but, no I couldn't bring myself to chop it down! Especially after my neighbour cut down every tree on his property without getting the city's permission, no less, the cretin! Guess I'll stick to buying wood.

You can check in on your experiment at weekly intervals, keep one in shade, but take it out to take comparison photos. I'd run it as long as you can stand to, personally I don't have that much patience! I do keep my gear out of the sun as much as possible, but my band is talking about wanting to play outdoors again this summer, which would probably mean hours of direct sunlight on my gear.

On a semi-related tangent, there are all kinds of reasons I don't like playing outside, waiting for hours to get a good spot, or to hold one, the hassles of loading gear in and out of Harvard Square, your sound just sort of dissipates outside, tough to get a good balance with no P.A., but it's gratifying when people hang around because they like what they hear, and not because they are waiting for you to stop so they can hear their friend's band. Also not to put too fine a point on it, attractive female human beings traipsing through the square in summer clothes made it a pretty bearable endeavour in the past, to be honest. boy I do go off on tangents a bit don't I.

 

[James Mobius]

YouTube - Bat bass demo clip 1.wmv

Somewhat hastily thrown together clip of me fooling around on the Bat bass, just to show what can be done on a 2 string slide bass, er, by me, a guy who's only been playing it for a few hours really, and isn't that great with a pick.

tried to imbed it here but the code doesn't seem to want to stick, anyone care to help me figure out how to do that? I tried changing the bracket style to what this site uses but that didn't work.

<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/wb3vSVwrJjQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[pacojas]

YouTube - Bat bass demo clip 1.wmv

Somewhat hastily thrown together clip of me fooling around on the Bat bass, just to show what can be done on a 2 string slide bass, er, by me, a guy who's only been playing it for a few hours really, and isn't that great with a pick.

great thread, AWESOME slide bass!

 

[BartoliniBoss]

Well I am growing a maple tree in my front yard, it started as a weed in my hedge, and it was right on the corner, I decided to let one grow upwards, rather than trim it with the hedges or pull it, that was some time within the last 8 years I think and it's now nearly as tall as the house! I might get a neck out of it now, but, no I couldn't bring myself to chop it down! Especially after my neighbour cut down every tree on his property without getting the city's permission, no less, the cretin! Guess I'll stick to buying wood.

...

In my youth, my father and I harvested many a tree to feed our wood burning stove, and there happened to be a mill just down the road. We found 50-something year old American walnut tree that had been split and uprooted by a storm. By the time I got to high school all the boards were dried and beautiful... I am 90% certain that he sold off all the finest stock, because I know there was more than a coffee table, chess table, step stool, bootjack, and set of dominoes worth of wood in that tree.

I am now considering deconstructing the coffee table. I'll bet I could get 6 bodies out of it. The top alone is 3 inch center cut limber, 2.5 ft by 5 ft.

I see no problem whatsoever in harvesting a tree, to turn into something I will cherish. My father and I have easily planted twice as many trees as we cut down...take only what you can give back.

 

[Legattabass]

I'd never heard Morphine before. Thank you for starting this project and luring me to their music. They had such a funky, gritty sound with all the class of Leonard Cohen, but without having to put up with Leonard Cohen. Thank you very much OP.

 

[James Mobius]

In my youth, my father and I harvested many a tree to feed our wood burning stove, and there happened to be a mill just down the road. We found 50-something year old American walnut tree that had been split and uprooted by a storm. By the time I got to high school all the boards were dried and beautiful... I am 90% certain that he sold off all the finest stock, because I know there was more than a coffee table, chess table, step stool, bootjack, and set of dominoes worth of wood in that tree.

I am now considering deconstructing the coffee table. I'll bet I could get 6 bodies out of it. The top alone is 3 inch center cut limber, 2.5 ft by 5 ft.

I see no problem whatsoever in harvesting a tree, to turn into something I will cherish. My father and I have easily planted twice as many trees as we cut down...take only what you can give back.

do it! you can always make a coffee table with a veneer anyway! yeah, I don't have that much land unfortunately, and I like the shade I get from my tree. also it's pretty satisfying to look at it and it's pretty damn big, I didn't actually plant it, but I have nurtured it, had to petition to keep it too, my uncle said the neighbours won't like it, and it's too close to the house, it'll crack the foundation, well, the foundation is already crapola, and the neighbours like the shade, they were sad they had to cut one down in front of their house as it was rotting and in danger of collapsing. I like your attitude.

 

[James Mobius]

I'd never heard Morphine before. Thank you for starting this project and luring me to their music. They had such a funky, gritty sound with all the class of Leonard Cohen, but without having to put up with Leonard Cohen. Thank you very much OP.

haha, that is the best thing I could hear, if I turned someone on to some great, and tragically under-known music. I've been listening to nothing but Morphine all week, turned on the radio and the guitars everywhere seemed brash and obnoxious. does every band really have to have guitars?

I have to limit how much I play this thing, my slide finger is starting to hurt! gotta build up new muscle slowly, a brass slide is heavy! might buy a lighter weight glass one, just to work on technique, but gig with the brass one.

another practical upshot of the 2 string slide bass, when I take a shower, I can't play bass for at least an hour or so, or my fingers get roughed up by the strings, not that I don't have calluses but that's just how my skin is, I've been playing bass since 1980 and have done 6 hour sets, I just need dry skin, I've gone as far as showering with rubber gloves on to keep my hands dry before a show. with this thing, I use a pick and a slide, my skin never really touches the strings so I can play it any time! I do pick up quite a bit of nickel dust on my left index finger just from muting.

someone on failbook, I mean facebook thanked me for turning them onto Morphine as well. mission accomplished! already thinking about a 3 string, the neck radius isn't really an issue, because it's the nut and bridge, the fingerboard can be flat frankly, since the strings never touch it, but the pickups, that will take some thought. might have to learn to make them so I can make an arc shaped pickup to match a super round cello-like radius. hmm. how hard can that be? wind some copper wire around a magnet?...