The cab question of the ages...

[greenboy]

I guess I don't understand why you even brought them up then, when the LS 1503 was mentioned. It's like if I mentioned that "mountain bikes suck" because I rode a $79 Walmart Rockbasher Special one time.

 

[Emprov]

I guess I don't understand why you even brought them up then, when the LS 1503 was mentioned. It's like if I mentioned that "mountain bikes suck" because I rode a $79 Walmart Rockbasher Special one time.

Well, if you read the post in which I brought the EON up, I said that the Carvin and the JBL are completely different animals, but it was enough to scare me away from the idea of using a PA cab as my main rig. Think of that $79 Walmart mountain bike. If you had only ridden that and used that as your model of what a mtb would be like, you'd get pretty freaked too at the thought of using a mtb as your main bike. Sure, you fully realize that it's an inferior product and all, but how willing would you be to trust another, slightly more expensive, (less expensive if you look at retail cost), mtb as your main ride if what you were currently riding sucked? How willing would you be to throw more money at another mtb on the hope that it would be exactly what you were looking for? The reason why I brought it up was because it's been my only frame of reference.

 

[jellymax]

i have heard that epifani's 4x10 box is killer, however
i have found my holy grail of single-solution medium size
cabinet with the whappo jr. i haven't heard a better box.
mine was a little tight when new, then opened up
& became thunderous after a few gigs. its about 70lbs.
has great wheels once oiled at the axle, & just
kicks some serious butt while having amazing tone.

keep in mind i dont play hard rock anymore, this cab may
or may not be good for that.

 

[chadds]

A plastic box designed for PA isn't going to make a great bass cab. I have owned the 1st gen and own the 2nd gen EONs. 12s and 15s. Like most gear when used properly for their intended purpose they can be excellent. Use a pair with an SVT and Marshall backline and mike the drums you have exceeded their capability. Actually for "sound on a stick" they can be very accurate. Imagine the different tones or messups we get with the tone controls on bass amps. Then add inexperience and the need to set up quickly and any PA can sound bad.
I have heard an opening act sound horrible and the headliner sound terrible on the same PA in a small club. The headliner knew how to adjust this thing for their sound. The opening act was way out of their element. Neither had sound men. The years of experience won out for the headliner.
I use a Joe Meek channel strip when I need one mic for vocals or sax and daisy chain the EONs. A very portable system. Also with eq on a board less is more. If you need more bass sometimes you drop the treble etc.
On point though I was in the 60's a fan of 2x15". Yes they whomp! For cheap it's hard to get that with new gear. If you can move it find a used SUNN 200s or 2000s cab. They were both designed to be efficient whompers. They were not just some speakers in a box but well designed cabs. Showmans and Ampeg B-25s are okay and vintage sounding but lacking this great design and proper cabinet volume.

 

[chadds]

What about some used Bag End 15s. A pair? Very well designed and rather prevalent on the used market.

 

[KJung]

The old rule of thumb really does apply:

You can have two of the following three:

- Small
- Loud (high SPL)
- Low (deep low end)

The Acme's give you the small and low, but are very inefficient. An Acme 210 will give you more low end than most 215 cabs, but will not be as loud as many 112's.

I've taken a very different approach.... Loud, Low and Light... I can have all three of these in a relatively large neo loaded/ultra light plywood cab like the Epifani 410ULor 310UL, etc. I've found that, in my situation, weight is more key than size. In other words, as long as I can easily lift the cab by myself (up onto high stages, up flights of stairs, etc.), then the size is quite secondary. My Epifani 410UL is 56 pounds... amazing, and the SPL and low end extension is just stunning IMO. It's a large box, but that's what gives you the projection and low end extension.

There are quite a few nice large, light boxes that might fit the bill. I find anything under 60 pounds, regardless of size, is a total breeze to schlep around.

Just another approach to think about.

However, if you really want 'small and low'... two Acme B210's with about 1000 watts running into them will definitely get you where you want to go IMO.

 

[buzzbass]

How about a Schroeder 1212, plug it in and be amazed.

 

[KJung]

How about a Schroeder 1212, plug it in and be amazed.

Great cab, but my understanding is that the OP is all about deep, low end extension, which is not what that cab is about IME.

 

[chadds]

I guess I don't understand why you even brought them up then, when the LS 1503 was mentioned. It's like if I mentioned that "mountain bikes suck" because I rode a $79 Walmart Rockbasher Special one time.

1) Hi there, Greenboy. Long time no talk to.
2) Very funny! "$79 Walmart Rockbasher Special"

 

[snappytom]

The old rule of thumb really does apply:

You can have two of the following three:

- Small
- Loud (high SPL)
- Low (deep low end)

........
........

I've taken a very different approach.... Loud, Low and Light... I can have all three of these in a relatively large neo loaded/ultra light plywood cab ............ I've found that, in my situation, weight is more key than size. In other words, as long as I can easily lift the cab by myself (up onto high stages, up flights of stairs, etc.), then the size is quite secondary. ...........

Good post .... back to the basic principles. And it takes me back to the Genz Benz NeoX 212

- Small(ish) -- at 32x21x17 and 62lbs
- Loud -- at 101db, about as good as it gets
- Low -- IMO, a cab with an excellent low end

 

[Emprov]

What about some used Bag End 15s. A pair? Very well designed and rather prevalent on the used market.

They've, along with the Genz Benz neox 212, have really piqued my interest lately. I'd love to see them A/B'd with some other cabs. Their boxes are really small and my concern is that they wouldn't put out the low end that I'm looking for.

The old rule of thumb really does apply:

You can have two of the following three:

- Small
- Loud (high SPL)
- Low (deep low end)

The Acme's give you the small and low, but are very inefficient. An Acme 210 will give you more low end than most 215 cabs, but will not be as loud as many 112's.

I've taken a very different approach.... Loud, Low and Light... I can have all three of these in a relatively large neo loaded/ultra light plywood cab like the Epifani 410ULor 310UL, etc. I've found that, in my situation, weight is more key than size. In other words, as long as I can easily lift the cab by myself (up onto high stages, up flights of stairs, etc.), then the size is quite secondary. My Epifani 410UL is 56 pounds... amazing, and the SPL and low end extension is just stunning IMO. It's a large box, but that's what gives you the projection and low end extension.

There are quite a few nice large, light boxes that might fit the bill. I find anything under 60 pounds, regardless of size, is a total breeze to schlep around.

Just another approach to think about.

However, if you really want 'small and low'... two Acme B210's with about 1000 watts running into them will definitely get you where you want to go IMO.

Ya, back to the, "the laws of physics aren't just a good idea, they are the law."" thing. I'v actually been thinking right along the same lines that you are. I'd love to be able to sit down with some Epi's before buying, can't find anyone who carries them around here though. Thanks.

How about a Schroeder 1212, plug it in and be amazed.

Had a 1210 for about a year. It was nice but I found it to be more boomy than punchy. Nice tone though.

Good post .... back to the basic principles. And it takes me back to the Genz Benz NeoX 212

Kinda brings me back to the neox as well.

 

[sevenorchids]

I've got both the Genz Benz NeoX212T (great bass cabinet) and the Carvin LS1503 (great cabinet, all around) mentioned above. If I had to choose between the two (and, luckily, I don't) I'd probably choose the Carvin. Has a really great, clear, clean, "studio monitor" type tone with more than enough power for what I need. Paired with the Genz heads, it really shines.

Unfortunately, you can't try them out in stores, as Carvin only sells direct. You CAN try them out at home and send them back within 10 days if they don't work out for you.

For $350, they are a steal. You could get 2 for the price of the NeoX212T new (~$750).

The NeoX212T is a great cabinet though, and you wouldn't go wrong with it either. You MIGHT be able to find a local store that has one in stock to try out, but I haven't seen Genz Benz stuff near me, and I am in the Chicago area. It's relatvely light, loud, and has a nice tone.

 

[Emprov]

I've got both the Genz Benz NeoX212T (great bass cabinet) and the Carvin LS1503 (great cabinet, all around) mentioned above. If I had to choose between the two (and, luckily, I don't) I'd probably choose the Carvin. Has a really great, clear, clean, "studio monitor" type tone with more than enough power for what I need. Paired with the Genz heads, it really shines.

Dang, that's quite a testimony. How's portability between the two. Did you do the 3515LF upgrade?

 

[CrackBass]

i'm kinda in the same situation. i've been gigging with schroeder for about 3 years. first a 21012 and then a 1210. they performed quite well, but i was missing something that i couldn't quite put my fingers on. i gigged with an old 215 cab that i have had for years but never used and it fit the bill quite nicely. imo most 15's don't have the super lows that most people associate with 15's, however they have that super low-mid thump that is percieved as low bass to the ear. that is what i've been missing in my sound. i'm not sure what freq it is but it really gives the bass some meat behind it. an 810 will get you there as well but that isn't a practicle solution for me. i plan to build a couple of 115 singles in the near future to make my rig modular. i don't really miss the more extended treble of the schroeder, but i have a plan for that as well if i need that sound in the future. i imagine that the bag ends would be a good solution, the carvin interests me as well, and would probably be a better choice if you need a super flat full range sound. cheap too.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Ditto on Acme B-2 - yes a little power hungry but not as much as you might think. The 1001RB is a good match.

I'll go along with this post and recommend Acme B2 too. I bought one, loved it, bought another to go with it and then another pair to make four in total. I usually use two and drive them with a Carvin DCM1000 power amp. Yes they do need power but so do many many other cabs. Besides amp power is so cheap that I just give them what they want. However the first one I tried was driven with a 100W amp and my low B just leapt out of the cabinet! At that point I stopped looking for speaker cabinets! I opted for the B2 'cos it's small, light and easily carried by one old fart.


Acme has a 1x10 (B1), a 2x10 (B2), a 4x10 (B4) and an owner who is honest, straightforward and a pleasure to deal with.

Paul

 

[BluesBassFreak]

Here's a little something different to throw into the mix. I've got a custom built Flite 2-15 box that is great IME. Light (about 50lbs or a little less) and good bottom and tone. (Used it last night with my new Fender 300 pro tube amp in a loud rockin'-blues situation and was very happy.) Something like that or two single 15's. My $.02

 

[tombowlus]

Each person will have their own personal 'grail', but FWIW, I have found myself to be most pleased with cabs from Bergantino, EA, and Glockenklang, as well as many offerings from Epifani and Accugroove. I have not tried many cabs from EBS (only the Neo112's), Hevos (only the Midget), and Genz-Benz (only the Neox212's), but I have been super impressed with those particular models. I really like Acmes as well, but they tend to like lots of power (if SS) or tube power. Phil Jones makes some just awesome cabs, IMHO, but they, too, tend to only perform their best with either gobs of SS power or with tube power. Older Trace Elliot cabs are quite good, too.

I guess there are lots of killer cabs out there (at least IME/IMHO), but if I had to pick a 'Holy Grail', it'd probably have to be the Berg IP153/EX115, though that is kinda 'cheating.'

Tom.

 

[lomo]

Epi UL2-115. 43lbs.

 

[modulusman]

Check out a GK212 Neo. Plenty of low end. This would be my cab of choice if you are thinking of getting a GK1001.

 

[Count Bassie]

...I'm not trying to sell it but it maybe worth going back and really reading the first few pages of that thread. Greenboy really gives a great technical and subjective explanation why this cab works so very well for bass guitar.(better than bass guitar cabs). Anyhow, good luck on your quest!

So, if I may, would you rather have the LS1503 than a nice 2x15 cab with 3015LFs? I don't mean for portability sake, obviously...

I have a Fender 2x15 (goes with the Sunn head I'm getting rid of), and am now looking at either the Carvin cab mentioned or loading the 2x15 with the LFs.