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Double Bass The DEFINITIVE Palatino EUB Modification Thread
- Thread starter jamiefoxer
- Start date
How did this thread even startup again? or still around?
How much did you pay for the "cheaper basses anyway"?
the Eminence can be bought on here as low as $1800-2000 as you can see one was just posted recently..
You can also call Gary Himself and ask for any factory seconds..etc..
I personally paid under $3000 for mine.. and it's a 5-string removable neck version.. ( I have however spent extra money on the hard shell case ($300?) and visits to luthiers to make bridges the way I want them and move the soundpost etc..) but That is because I know I wanted something different.
If money is a problem then god almighty how did you get a real upright bass and all the things that are required for that? (a $20,000 car, $200 strings, $500 luthier visits, etc,,)
I'm not saying the Eminence is the absolute most best thing in the world.. but it's a slightly better option for a portable small collapsible bass.. (than the palatino/ others)
you'll notice the palatino and others don't remove the neck! that alone is a huge feature for traveling internationally on an airplane anyway.. which is what I do so thats why I know..
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Rickett Customs
Commercial User
I picked one (palatino) up not too long ago.... Did the innertube bridge mod and found it improved pretty good. But not quite enough, metal strings just weren't doing it for me.......after using superior bassworks basics (kevlar core nylon strings) on my chinese plywood, I decided to try a superior bassworks deluxe set (gut texture) on the pal, it definitely improved it for me. I also found that the spectracomp (on my tc rh450 head) was a really excellent compressor for it as well (have not tried their pedal version). Bonus points for the low tension strings not causing any vibration from the tailpiece. A very minor issue (if it's considered an issue, as it is not a problem for me): The low tension makes the bridge slip a bit (strings do not exert as much downward force on the bridge. If it ever became and issue, I know how to resolve it. Helpful tip, if you use these strings use the thicker ones vs thinner (a set comes with 6 strings of graduated thicknesses).
I'm curious to know, how would you resolve it?
I ask because I recently put a set of Weed Wackers on mine. I really like the feel and the sound of them, but I did have problems with the bridge slipping a bit. My fix was to rub some bow rosin on the strings where they sit in the bridge grooves. It worked ok, but wonder what other methods there are.
Btw, I also had to file the nut and bridge grooves to accomodate the thicker strings. And, I sanded down the E and A side of the bridge to give a more even spacing to the height of the strings between each other.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
+1 on the filing.
The pick sort of illustrates using a spare string, with the end going through the "s" hole on the bridge, but need to develop an attachment method for the other end on the metal part on the bridge. This way when you tense the strings up, it will limit the shift. Without it, it really is not bad though.
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The pick sort of illustrates using a spare string, with the end going through the "s" hole on the bridge, but need to develop an attachment method for the other end on the metal part on the bridge. This way when you tense the strings up, it will limit the shift. Without it, it really is not bad though.
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Ah, yes. I've seen something similar done by others, but not necessarily using an old string. I like that idea.
I have tried it, using an old cord of leather, that I could tie to the tailpiece. I did wonder, however, if it was dampening the sound from the bridge at all.
Rickett Customs
Commercial User
Hi everyone. I'm just stepping in to discuss my Palatino, that I bought secondhand yesterday. Currently thing's aren't going great. It's worth mentioning that I'm brand new to upright, and I have never tried any other EUBs other than Spector NXTs in store (obviously quite a different instrument in terms of design and quality), but I have been playing bass over 15 years and I'm not terrible at making minor changes to things.
I read a sensible portion of the Palatino mega-threads before I collected the bass and I had a bit of an idea of what I might need to do to the instrument to make it serviceable. When I got it home, interestingly I got the feeling that whomever last set it up might have read the mega-thread too, because it seems to me that someone has done quite a clever job of adding bike rubber over the pickup already (unless the top of the pickup naturally looks like it's got bike rubber on it). The seller also indicated that the bass had also been restrung with nicer strings when it was bought. I don't know what they are, but they're not stock.
I got it home and plugged in and the first thing that I noted was that the action is too high. I expected the action on an upright to be higher than an electric, but the difference was enormous. I'm guessing the strings were roughly 12mm off the board. I noted that the bridge had extenders, so I figured it would be sensible to lower them. Once I went through that process, the action was a teensy bit better but it was still about a centimeter off the board. I also had very little sound out of the amp, so I figure I must have buggered up the resonance of the bridge and the piezo wasn't firing. Before slacking my strings again to try and resolve this I thought I'd have a little 10 min play. Within two minutes of clumsy pizz the bridge exploded into three pieces. I thought I'd busted it properly but it had just shot the feet away across the room and collapsed. Clearly I'd gotten the angle wrong. I took the opportunity to wash the board and strings with alcohol and then I lemon oiled the board (which was caked in grease from someone else's grubby hands) rebuilt the bridge, and tried to get it as straight as possible, but it's still leaning slightly forward, which is making me anxious that it's just going to go boom again, and that next time the damn thing might actually snap.
In 'good' news, the pickup seems to be working better now but the whole instrument is now resonating darkly across the low mids through my amp and the sound is muffled and peculiar. I guess a good next step might be to damp the bridge to see if that will shut it up a bit. It still won't help the fact that the action remains pretty untenable and I'm worried that the bridge will shoot off at any second, but it's better than nothing.
Does anyone have any advice for next steps on the action or tone of the bass? I bought this instrument for a very fine price ($400AU apx.) and I'm not averse to having it looked at by a pro, but I'd be keen to try and keep the costs down. I'm mindful that I'm about as green as they come with uprights, and I didn't expect the experience to be as easygoing as an electric bass, but I just can't really get past the action issue right now. I can't see myself enjoying playing an instrument that I'm going to have to wrestle.
I read a sensible portion of the Palatino mega-threads before I collected the bass and I had a bit of an idea of what I might need to do to the instrument to make it serviceable. When I got it home, interestingly I got the feeling that whomever last set it up might have read the mega-thread too, because it seems to me that someone has done quite a clever job of adding bike rubber over the pickup already (unless the top of the pickup naturally looks like it's got bike rubber on it). The seller also indicated that the bass had also been restrung with nicer strings when it was bought. I don't know what they are, but they're not stock.
I got it home and plugged in and the first thing that I noted was that the action is too high. I expected the action on an upright to be higher than an electric, but the difference was enormous. I'm guessing the strings were roughly 12mm off the board. I noted that the bridge had extenders, so I figured it would be sensible to lower them. Once I went through that process, the action was a teensy bit better but it was still about a centimeter off the board. I also had very little sound out of the amp, so I figure I must have buggered up the resonance of the bridge and the piezo wasn't firing. Before slacking my strings again to try and resolve this I thought I'd have a little 10 min play. Within two minutes of clumsy pizz the bridge exploded into three pieces. I thought I'd busted it properly but it had just shot the feet away across the room and collapsed. Clearly I'd gotten the angle wrong. I took the opportunity to wash the board and strings with alcohol and then I lemon oiled the board (which was caked in grease from someone else's grubby hands) rebuilt the bridge, and tried to get it as straight as possible, but it's still leaning slightly forward, which is making me anxious that it's just going to go boom again, and that next time the damn thing might actually snap.
In 'good' news, the pickup seems to be working better now but the whole instrument is now resonating darkly across the low mids through my amp and the sound is muffled and peculiar. I guess a good next step might be to damp the bridge to see if that will shut it up a bit. It still won't help the fact that the action remains pretty untenable and I'm worried that the bridge will shoot off at any second, but it's better than nothing.
Does anyone have any advice for next steps on the action or tone of the bass? I bought this instrument for a very fine price ($400AU apx.) and I'm not averse to having it looked at by a pro, but I'd be keen to try and keep the costs down. I'm mindful that I'm about as green as they come with uprights, and I didn't expect the experience to be as easygoing as an electric bass, but I just can't really get past the action issue right now. I can't see myself enjoying playing an instrument that I'm going to have to wrestle.
The action may be a bit high for some tastes, but it is within the realm of what upright players use. I think your issues here stem from lack of knowing what it is supposed to look like. An EUB is part of the violin family and not the guitars so don't expect it to feel at all like a bass guitar.
Take a trip to your local orchestral instrument store and have a look at the basses there. With any luck they will have their instruments set up reasonably and you can study how things should be set up.
Take a trip to your local orchestral instrument store and have a look at the basses there. With any luck they will have their instruments set up reasonably and you can study how things should be set up.
I don't doubt you're at least partially correct. My issue is not so much that the feel is unexpectedly different (I knew it would be), but that I have no baseline for what an appropriate upright setup actually feels like, so there's every chance it's objectively bad and I wouldn't know better. As a long-time bassist I know from the experience of meeting with other bassists who don't care for their gear. There's nothing more boggling than picking up someone's utterly ill-maintained and shanked BG and thinking "Holy ****...how long have you been putting up with this?". I guess I wouldn't want to be 'that guy' to other upright bassists.
Problematically here in Melbourne we have very very few stores that actively deal in uprights, and even fewer that I'd trust to know how to set one up. There are a few violineris that meet with clients on an appointment basis, so at this stage it looks like I might have to organise to make a special trip.
As much as I can't stand these things I'll give you some advice on the bridge, When you turn your bass sideways and look down at the bridge and bass body, there needs to be a 90 degree angle - when you look at your bass from the side.
like so. (pictures below)
As I remember my absolute terrible time with this, you will absolutely need to get a new thicker/stronger bridge. Which ofcourse would have to be custom made by a luthier etc.. Otherwise you will forever have the flimsy, easy to tilt, and just a joke of a Bass bridge Palatino at its best.
I will be coming to Australia at the end of November, so If you are around the places I'll be touring, I can have a drink with you and show you some secrets then as well..
And even better, show you my Emenince Bass. (Which has had it's problems as well, but much easier to fix.)
P.s. - I will probably be posting my unworthy Palatino up for sale in the next few weeks. I don't know how I've even kept it so long.
And I'll probably sell it For a good cheap price too, as I don't think anybody should wast time with these except for home practice while others are sleeping.
D
Lots of interesting stuff in this thread.
The first thing that caught my eye was the innertube mod. But the thing is, I'm considering a Realist Lifeline. Will the innertube mod have any purpose at all for pickups that are mounted at the bridge adjuster? Or will it only affect piezos that are mounted below the bridge?
For me the weak point of this instrument is the noisy electronics so that's why I'm thinking about the Realist. I guess another alternative would be to simply re-wire the stock piezos to bypass the electronics. Has anyone done this? I have a feeling the stock pickups may actually be better if the electronics are bypassed or replaced with something else.
Generally I'm looking for a clearer, more defined arco sound. I won't be using it much for pizzocato. And just to be clear, this is for a prog rock project so I'm not necessarily aiming for an "authentic" sound. I might even use distortion pedals, intentional feedback and such.
I have replaced the bridge with a better one and spent some time getting it just right. Compared to the stock bridge I have set the E string slightly lower as the bow angle on the A was a little too tight for me. I've also changed the stock strings to Thomastik Belcantos which I normally love for arco but they just don't feel like the best choice for this instrument. I get a decent sound when playing alone but the E+A string gets too muddy and completely drowns in the mix when playing in a full band situation. In fact I'm experiencing the same things that I normally do with Belcantos+pizzicato. E+A feels a bit "dead" and unresponsive. Not sure if it's the pickups, electronics or simply the wrong choice of strings for this instrument.
I'm hoping something like the Lifelines may give me a more defined and less boomy sound. I also like the design of the Lifeline, making it easy to move between instruments. This is a BIG issue for me and could save me some money.
The first thing that caught my eye was the innertube mod. But the thing is, I'm considering a Realist Lifeline. Will the innertube mod have any purpose at all for pickups that are mounted at the bridge adjuster? Or will it only affect piezos that are mounted below the bridge?
For me the weak point of this instrument is the noisy electronics so that's why I'm thinking about the Realist. I guess another alternative would be to simply re-wire the stock piezos to bypass the electronics. Has anyone done this? I have a feeling the stock pickups may actually be better if the electronics are bypassed or replaced with something else.
Generally I'm looking for a clearer, more defined arco sound. I won't be using it much for pizzocato. And just to be clear, this is for a prog rock project so I'm not necessarily aiming for an "authentic" sound. I might even use distortion pedals, intentional feedback and such.
I have replaced the bridge with a better one and spent some time getting it just right. Compared to the stock bridge I have set the E string slightly lower as the bow angle on the A was a little too tight for me. I've also changed the stock strings to Thomastik Belcantos which I normally love for arco but they just don't feel like the best choice for this instrument. I get a decent sound when playing alone but the E+A string gets too muddy and completely drowns in the mix when playing in a full band situation. In fact I'm experiencing the same things that I normally do with Belcantos+pizzicato. E+A feels a bit "dead" and unresponsive. Not sure if it's the pickups, electronics or simply the wrong choice of strings for this instrument.
I'm hoping something like the Lifelines may give me a more defined and less boomy sound. I also like the design of the Lifeline, making it easy to move between instruments. This is a BIG issue for me and could save me some money.
The DEFINITIVE Palatino EUB Modification Thread
The DEFINITIVE Palatino EUB Modification Thread
Helicore Hybrids are OK, but this isn't a slam on them. If you are looking for a specific sound you will have to buy & try to get your goals met.
Hey you guys, has anyone figured out an effective way to create a stand for this upright so it can stand unsupported?
Mine sadly didn't come with the rest bar and holding the instrument upright and straight while trying to teach myself good arco technique is wearing me out really quickly. It's causing me to stand weirdly and get quickly tight through the neck.
I know some people have alleged to have created stands using cymbal stands, but I don't really get how this works, as all the image links to this solution went dead ages ago. I have a few cymbal stands around the place, but nothing that the end-pin would fit into as some people claim is the best solution...
Mine sadly didn't come with the rest bar and holding the instrument upright and straight while trying to teach myself good arco technique is wearing me out really quickly. It's causing me to stand weirdly and get quickly tight through the neck.
I know some people have alleged to have created stands using cymbal stands, but I don't really get how this works, as all the image links to this solution went dead ages ago. I have a few cymbal stands around the place, but nothing that the end-pin would fit into as some people claim is the best solution...
Find a good teacher and take at least one lesson. This could end up serious if you don't head it off now,
Do you have an answer my actual question regarding the stand, or are you only good at reminding people that they're wet behind the ears?
You've sent that particular message twice now, despite it not being the response to even one of my two questions, so please consider that message firmly received.
I'm very committed to learning the right way, and I'm on the hunt for an appropriate teacher. They're thin on the ground over here, so that might take a while to find someone local who can fit me in. Right now I'd just like to find a way to make the instrument stand up on its own so I can actually focus on what my right hand is doing with the bow (on open strings only at this stage), without the distraction of having to physically balance and angle the bass at the same time. That's clearly what's drawing my shoulders up toward my ears and causing the tightness through my lats.
Looking at this thread I can tell you're actually a pretty capable modder, so do you actually have any advice about what to use as a stand?
If you get a competent teacher they will help you in holding the bass as well. Spinning basses is an old complaint even with the expensive uprights. Time and experience will help you sort this one out. Search in the upright area to find out what has been tried over the years. I can't help more in that since I just stick with the standard endpin on my king and vary my technique - seated or standing - to keep the bass where I expect it to be, but I know there are many things recommended by different schools of playing.
The guys I've noticed putting their basses in stands usually fall into 2 camps: 1- guys who play bass guitar primarily and just want to dabble with an EUB, 2- guys who have to do quick changes between instruments. For myself, just getting a good crutch tip helps plant the "endpin" of the Palatino and minimize the tendency to rotating. Go to a pharmacy and get the best tip you can find - something wide and grabby, not the hard plastic or narrow types you can find at wally world and hardware stores. They're not expensive and really can make a difference. I have the wing, but it lives in a closet, just so I can include it if I ever let it go. I really have no use for it myself but others find using it as is or modding it helpful.
I've tried playing basses on stands, and while they are fun to play around with I've never been able to find one position which worked well for me. I end up with a sore neck or shoulder. I've been a percussionist for 30 years and have a bunch of hardware that could be used to mimic/mock up stands like some of the EUBs use, but I find them kind of tripping hazards once they get wide enough to be stable and they are just more stuff to have to carry around to a gig.
I still believe a teacher is your best bet - and as soon as you possibly can. It is much easier to learn than unlearn. Bad habits are HARD to break.
I'll keep on saying it until the message gets through as firmly as I believe it - get a teacher. You can really hurt yourself playing upright with poor technique.
The guys I've noticed putting their basses in stands usually fall into 2 camps: 1- guys who play bass guitar primarily and just want to dabble with an EUB, 2- guys who have to do quick changes between instruments. For myself, just getting a good crutch tip helps plant the "endpin" of the Palatino and minimize the tendency to rotating. Go to a pharmacy and get the best tip you can find - something wide and grabby, not the hard plastic or narrow types you can find at wally world and hardware stores. They're not expensive and really can make a difference. I have the wing, but it lives in a closet, just so I can include it if I ever let it go. I really have no use for it myself but others find using it as is or modding it helpful.
I've tried playing basses on stands, and while they are fun to play around with I've never been able to find one position which worked well for me. I end up with a sore neck or shoulder. I've been a percussionist for 30 years and have a bunch of hardware that could be used to mimic/mock up stands like some of the EUBs use, but I find them kind of tripping hazards once they get wide enough to be stable and they are just more stuff to have to carry around to a gig.
I still believe a teacher is your best bet - and as soon as you possibly can. It is much easier to learn than unlearn. Bad habits are HARD to break.
I'll keep on saying it until the message gets through as firmly as I believe it - get a teacher. You can really hurt yourself playing upright with poor technique.
The thing is a teacher might discuss your ideas before you actually do anything to the instrument. He might also explain why some of your ideas might not work well.
Personally I dislike basses on stands because I need to move around a bit over time and you are nailed to a certain position using a stand.
And a stand might introduce other health problems than your current ones, because you cannot/should not move.
BTW, for my Clevinger EUB, which I modified for a straight endpin, I bought a very large rubber tip with a thick tip and cut some of the rubber off to one side. Turned in the right direction my slightly or a bit more angled EUB does not turn, because the rubber is more or less flat (at least one flat and thick contact line) on the floor. The tips are not that expensive, so better buy two or three, so it does not matter if the first one wasn't cut well.
And you need some kind of body support that sticks to your body. The polished metal ones won't do. Refining the idea of the previous EUB owner, I put two layers of rubber foam tube around the metal rod, the first spirally cut to get a smaller diameter and the second as is over the inner layer of spirally cut rubber foam. Works very well!
Personally I dislike basses on stands because I need to move around a bit over time and you are nailed to a certain position using a stand.
And a stand might introduce other health problems than your current ones, because you cannot/should not move.
BTW, for my Clevinger EUB, which I modified for a straight endpin, I bought a very large rubber tip with a thick tip and cut some of the rubber off to one side. Turned in the right direction my slightly or a bit more angled EUB does not turn, because the rubber is more or less flat (at least one flat and thick contact line) on the floor. The tips are not that expensive, so better buy two or three, so it does not matter if the first one wasn't cut well.
And you need some kind of body support that sticks to your body. The polished metal ones won't do. Refining the idea of the previous EUB owner, I put two layers of rubber foam tube around the metal rod, the first spirally cut to get a smaller diameter and the second as is over the inner layer of spirally cut rubber foam. Works very well!
