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The fall of legends...
- Thread starter SlapLikeTheWind
- Start date
This^^ I am in a les paul owners group on fb and the general consensus is that those are the ones sought after..
As a side note; that group is kind of odd..I find them to be very elitist in thinking and if you say anything other than great things about LPs you quickly get bashed on..if you post an Epi it will be taken down with lightning speed..lol..I find that distasteful and I really don't know why I just don't leave the group..crazy bunch and super loyal almost to the point of cultish about Les Pauls...ha ha
I took my Mrs. on a Mississippi River cruise in November 2018 and with a couple extra days in Memphis I strolled over to visit the Gibson factory. There were enormous roll-off dumpsters on all sides of the silent buildings and the only thing “operating” was the gift/souvenir shop which was staffed by a guy who couldn’t have cared less that I came in. Oh, yeah, there wasn’t a single bass-related product to be seen. Not even on the T-shirts.
Very true, several years ago on a backwater near my family's lake house, a 65 yr old man set a new world record for the biggest striped bass ever caught at 70lbs.
He used an Ambassador 7000 reel, an "Ugly Stick" Catfish rod, and Berkley 30lb test line to snag that sucker. We're talking about $200 in gear at most and he now owns the world record for the largest striped bass ever caught.
What's the best striped bass for metal?
This one might have some neck dive though, and it's weight is really up there.
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It wasn't always like that. I have no idea where the "cultists" came from. I guess it's the Internet that brought them out like a bunch of cockroaches in the light.
I've been playing Gibsons (admittedly *way* more guitars than basses) for over 40 years now, have owned an absolutely ridiculous amount of them and hold some very unorthodox views on the brand as well as on particular iterations of certain models. All based on personal experience. I wouldn't survive in most social media related to the brand for more than a day which is why I don't participate in them.
It's not just Gibson owners. I belong to a few Fender groups on FB. Don't post in them very often, haven't even looked at any of them in awhile. They can get very cult like too. They just don't understand that while I love my Fenders and my new found enjoyment in them, I also enjoy playing my '86 Epiphone Accu Bass that I bought for $65, nursed back into playing condition and upgraded it with an EMG GZR P pup.
Yep, that's the cockroach mentality. I don't get it. Over all the years - decades - that I've been in the game I've never bashed someone over their gear choice, not on a serious level anyway. Jokes among close friends are a different matter, I sure have been on both sides of those...
I never knock anyone for their gear. I've seen guys with really nice, expensive gear, that couldn't play it worth a flip. And I've seen guys playing on some of the worst gear in the world who's playing deserved to be done on the nice expensive gear that belonged to the person who couldn't play worth a flip.Yep, that's the cockroach mentality. I don't get it. Over all the years - decades - that I've been in the game I've never bashed someone over their gear choice, not on a serious level anyway. Jokes among close friends are a different matter, I sure have been on both sides of those...
I don’t play a ton of new Basses but haven’t had any issues with new Fenders at my local GC.
I’ve been playing now for almost 20 years. The quality floor has only trended upward for pretty much every brand and price point. If anything it’s tougher to justify higher costed instruments when the cheap stuff is so much better now.
And now, as has always been the case, the best deals are in the used market. you could’ve had an American made Aguilar tonehammer 350 for what you paid for that acoustic b300. And if you want the “old quality stuff” you’re welcome to it as many of it, especially amps, is at a fraction of its retail cost.
I’ve been playing now for almost 20 years. The quality floor has only trended upward for pretty much every brand and price point. If anything it’s tougher to justify higher costed instruments when the cheap stuff is so much better now.
And now, as has always been the case, the best deals are in the used market. you could’ve had an American made Aguilar tonehammer 350 for what you paid for that acoustic b300. And if you want the “old quality stuff” you’re welcome to it as many of it, especially amps, is at a fraction of its retail cost.
I've worked in music stores, been a habitual guitar store haunt, and I have an advantage over most in that I live here in Nashville: I can see all the vintage guitars (Gruhn's and Carter's top that list), we have the jobber guitars with Sam Ash and Guitar Center here, and terrific local stores, headed up by Corner Music. I've been around basses and guitars for over 40 years (oh, HERE we go, another geez 'dad' bass player, sheesh . . . .).
I remember when brand new guitars and basses varied a lot. It was not uncommon in the 70's for a guy to decide on this or that then go round and try every one he could get his hands on 'till he found a good one'. In a world before CAD/CAM and CNC mills, they could be all over the place with hand labor, funky wiring, and occasionally indifferent paint jobs. GM and Ford weren't the only ones pushing sleds out the back door.
I can never remember a bigger or broader new market than there is now, in every price range. And the crazy thing is the quality is a LOT higher. Save for the variance in wood, 6 versions of the same axe are essentially identical alongside of 30 or 40 years ago. And believe me, every 'old' guitar is not 'vintage', it's just old.
When I started playing bass in the late 70's, obviously everyone told me 'hey, ya gotta get a FENDER'. And every one I tried was too big, too clumsy, and had a neck like a halved Louisville slugger (these were Precisions, you could hardly give away a Jazz back then). For the life of me I could not warm up to one. Then a friend showed me his 60's PBass, and it was all the difference in the world. But you couldn't buy those then. Nowadays, the 'good one' are scanned and measured and fairly easily duplicated, and the digital process doesn't care WHERE it's done: The CV Squier Precision for $399, I'd have killed for one back then, except we couldn't buy a bass made in Indonesia. The MIM's and Corona Fenders are even better.
Every one ships a turkey once in a while, it just happens. But for me, axes are now the best they've ever been.
I remember when brand new guitars and basses varied a lot. It was not uncommon in the 70's for a guy to decide on this or that then go round and try every one he could get his hands on 'till he found a good one'. In a world before CAD/CAM and CNC mills, they could be all over the place with hand labor, funky wiring, and occasionally indifferent paint jobs. GM and Ford weren't the only ones pushing sleds out the back door.
I can never remember a bigger or broader new market than there is now, in every price range. And the crazy thing is the quality is a LOT higher. Save for the variance in wood, 6 versions of the same axe are essentially identical alongside of 30 or 40 years ago. And believe me, every 'old' guitar is not 'vintage', it's just old.
When I started playing bass in the late 70's, obviously everyone told me 'hey, ya gotta get a FENDER'. And every one I tried was too big, too clumsy, and had a neck like a halved Louisville slugger (these were Precisions, you could hardly give away a Jazz back then). For the life of me I could not warm up to one. Then a friend showed me his 60's PBass, and it was all the difference in the world. But you couldn't buy those then. Nowadays, the 'good one' are scanned and measured and fairly easily duplicated, and the digital process doesn't care WHERE it's done: The CV Squier Precision for $399, I'd have killed for one back then, except we couldn't buy a bass made in Indonesia. The MIM's and Corona Fenders are even better.
Every one ships a turkey once in a while, it just happens. But for me, axes are now the best they've ever been.
And yes indeed, Gibson has been back in biz on Massman Drive, repaired plant after the Great Flood. The IMPORTANT thing was washed out later, when new ownership sent Henry J to orbit behind the Sun . . . . . THOSE stories will have to come later . . . .
I recently purchased a 2020 USA Geddy Lee here. Fender did an amazing job building this model. Also had a 2020 American Precision and it was high quality.
It's always difficult to gauge quality if you haven't played a good sample size per period to determine overall quality. Having said that, I have just received a Player P-Bass which has objectively more QC concerns than any other guitar I've got (truss rod off-center, crack in the finish on the headstock, string tree is functional but not quite aligned, pickup is slanted towards the neck). I'm hesitant to judge based on this single observation, but most other Fenders I played were pretty good (but they were all 2012 or earlier).
Perhaps manufacturers are trying too hard to keep the cost down in countries that are getting more expensive. Or it's a business move – as long as the percentage sent back is OK, they might not want to change a thing. They might pin it on the dealers to fix minor issues.
Clearly I haven't played enough Fenders to judge this, but my 2020 P bass has QC issues and my other guitars didn't. I've got a Taylor GS Mini, also from Mexico, and it's flawless. I borrowed a '08 USA Std P-bass and besides a high (loose) fret, it's pretty much perfect. My cheap Sterling Sub is really clean too. So maybe the QC department wasn't there when this particular bass came through
(PS I'm really happy with it regardless, it seems the 'bones' are good, fretwork good, etc).
Perhaps manufacturers are trying too hard to keep the cost down in countries that are getting more expensive. Or it's a business move – as long as the percentage sent back is OK, they might not want to change a thing. They might pin it on the dealers to fix minor issues.
Clearly I haven't played enough Fenders to judge this, but my 2020 P bass has QC issues and my other guitars didn't. I've got a Taylor GS Mini, also from Mexico, and it's flawless. I borrowed a '08 USA Std P-bass and besides a high (loose) fret, it's pretty much perfect. My cheap Sterling Sub is really clean too. So maybe the QC department wasn't there when this particular bass came through
(PS I'm really happy with it regardless, it seems the 'bones' are good, fretwork good, etc).
Gonna disagree with you here.
If we're talkin entry level instruments for *new musicians*, I think they've never had it better. The general build quality of cheap beginner gear is surprisingly good now
But if we're talking about the better offerings from well known industry standards, like Fender & Gibson, being expensive?
Well, do you want your pair of Air Jordan's or not?
The Sire basses are damn good for entry level. Also, if you want a good Fender model you should look at Sandberg instead. Top level mainstream brands (I am not talking about niche like Zon or Fodera) instruments just aren't built in America anymore these days. Making it all about the money instead of all about the product in these companies was their downfall.
Nobody should want a Fender bass anymore.
Nobody should want a Fender bass anymore.
If you look into other brands, then you'll find the oposite. Yamaha comes instantly into my mind.
When the large corporations take over quality brands, they go toor go out of business. IMHO.
Examples besides the ones mentioned:
SWR
Eden
Genz Benz
Ampeg
and now with Gibson taking over Mesa, I think the writing is on the wall. Also IMHO.
Ampeg has been doing exactly what they've done before, if anything what anyone can acuse Yamaha is that they still haven't introduced new stuff in the Ampeg line. Genz Benz is still a great brand, IMHO.
