The First 7 String Electric Bass

[Treena Foster]

Garry, my credits have been in question on this board for a couple of weeks now.

It's okay, the ones who know me, know the truth. Those that matter, know the truth.

I personally contacted Bob Lee because I knew he worked for Mike Tobias and I knew he could shed some light on this discussion.

I do not doubt your 7 string status or you being the first to have one built. You also keep excellent records and I for one would like to see what Ken has to say to you and the Talk Bass members who have taken interest in this topic.

Garry your evidence stands on it's own, it's right there in black and white for those who doubt to see.

This seems to be more of an issue for Ken Smith now!

I respect you both and hope this is resolved soon.

Treena

 

[Garry Goodman]

This s a beautiful post . I am a single parent ,i and i work a 12 -14 hour day between gigs and production. I answered Jauqo's question because of 30 years playing 7,9 and 10 string fretted instruments. I don't want to read that no one,or very few know me or my music because as a composer ,signatore AFM producer/ musician I have my original music getting TV ,Film and radio air play 24/7
These guys post with such authority. Talk about arrogant . i have to say ,who the #@$% are you? Can you see some people write things that are embarresing ? We should have a pro and an amateur forum. If you have been playing 33 years ,and a guy posts ' you don't knowe anything ,you music is worthless" or what ever ,how do you respond. As I type this ,I have guy who wants my music tracks in one hour. it's my mortgage paymnet . I read that someone says my music is only known by a few. How stupid does it get ? Get that guy off of here. Very few have anything valid to add to this thread. These kind of posts are not helping. all many of you want to do is tell me all the things I d wrong. Do you think this belongs on Jauqo's thread ?


. I came on this site specifically to address the 7 string question. No one here knows what i had to go through to get one made . Ken Smith won't admit it . I just have no time for someone who is not part of this equation to tell me no one ,or very few know who i am. Tha't really an ignorant remark . This is not a workshop , a lesson ,and i don't ave time for it right now . Look at the absolute BS people say to me . I spend 6 hours a day playing 7 and 9 string . This stuff takes me away from that .

Should i just say' i am a liar, I didn't play 7 string before someone .I bought my 7 string at sears ,i admit iu lied ,ken smith is write ,i apaologize ? I think everyone should stop looking for anything they can to drag me down.
You know ,itshould end with the fact that i established the 7 string bass

Originally posted by Treena Foster
Garry, FWIW, I know who you are and I am aware of your credits.

I am a union member and have played bass on a number of sessions for 33 years.

I do respect all players and we each have different levels.

Respect is not owed, it's earned. Everyone registered at this site has equal right to post.

Until recently, some players on this board were not aware of your contribution to the 7 string bass, they are now, so conduct yourself like the sessioned Pro that you are! Don't let anyone's amature status push your buttons, you're a pro dude and those that matter, know this!

It's very obvious we are passionate about our work, that's why it's easy to be upset by others off handed remarks.

Educate those who insult you Garry, you have the knowlegde and the experience to rise above the pettiness.




FC, is absolutely right about this comment.

Treena

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally posted by Treena Foster

It's very obvious we are passionate about our work, that's why it's easy to be upset by others off handed remarks.

Educate those who insult you Garry, you have the knowlegde and the experience to rise above the pettiness.

Treena

 

[Samie]

since we are in the timeline subject...

Did Leo Fender have anything to do with musicman?

 

[Treena Foster]

Originally posted by Samie
since we are in the timeline subject...

Did Leo Fender have anything to do with musicman?

Yes, he did Samie.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Clarence Leo Fender came into the world on August 10, 1909, at the family ranch in California. His parents ran a succesful orange grove, located between the cities of Anaheim and Fullerton. Leo became interested in electronics around age 13, most likely from his uncle, who had built a radio from parts.

Leo began dismantling and repairing radios himself as a hobby, never afraid to tinker with electronics to see what the result would be. In 1928, Leo enrolled in junior college as an accounting major. Leo was sharpening the business acumen that would serve him well throughout his career.

Two events in the early 1930's would change Leo's life. One was when, in the early 1930's, he was approached by a bandleader to construct a PA system for use at dances. The second, around the same time, was when Leo met Esther Klosky. Esther became Mrs. Leo Fender in 1934.

Trying the safe route first, Leo hired on with the State of California as an accountant. In 1938, he took a chance and opened the Fender Radio Service in downtown Fullerton. Soon, musicians began coming to Leo in search of improved guitars and amplifiers. Fender began K & F Manufacturing with fellow inventor Doc Kauffman (who designed guitars for Rickenbacker) in a shed behind the radio shop where, in 1945, he unveiled his first electric guitar.

In 1946, Leo opened the Fender Electric Instrument Company in Fullerton. It was there that he created the legendary Telecaster and Stratocaster — arguably, the most popular and successful guitar designs in history.

Fender moved the small factory to 500 S. Raymond Ave. in Fullerton, and, in 1965, sold it to CBS Musical Instruments.

Although, by his own admission, he "could not play a note," Fender went on to be inducted into both the Rock and Roll and Country Music halls of fame — recognition of the tremendous impact he had on contemporary society through his musical inventions.

After the non-competition clause expired in the CBS sale agreement, Leo began designing guitars and basses for Music Man. The Sting Ray and Sabre are two Fender designs. In the 1980s, Leo opened the G&L business on Fender Avenue (named for him) in Fullerton. He continued to work there every day until his death on March 21, 1991, from complications from Parkinson's Disease.

Hope you find this info useful!

Treena

 

[funkycarnivore]

Originally posted by Ninestring
What makes Jauqo's or MC Bass Dudes post less valid than Ken Smiths ?

Well, since you asked.... Ken Smith is the owner/proprietor of Ken Smith Basses. When the issue is an order placed with his company, I'd have to say that his post is more valid than either of the folks you mentioned. Obviously, this issue is now in dispute. That does not take away from the fact that Ken Smith would most likely be the most reliable source on Ken Smith instruments.

Originally posted by Ninestring

i don't say Ken Smith is wrong about all things. why do you go nthere? We are talking about my bass order-only.I neede a 7 string then and he says i am full of it-in so many words. What would you do? if you did this post ,and for some reason you told me about it 20 years from now ,and i said-no you didn't, what would you say ?

I can only comprehend about 50% of what you are saying. I "go there" because, if I read correctly, you said "Well Ken-you have lied or "forgotten" everything else at this point ,why should anything you say be valid ?" and "i have proof .that i did do business with Ken Smith in 1982. If he's wrong about that ,you can bet he's wrong about a 7 string." I try to be polite whenever I can, but yes...it does sound like you said that Ken Smith is wrong about all things, and that's why I "go there": because you do. I'm not a professional musician; just a grad student in Philosophy of Religion--hope that's good enough for you.

Listen, I have very little interest in who did what. I know both Jauqo and Bob Lee and I find them to be decent and trustworthy people, so please believe me when I say that I am not trying to discredit you or your accomplishments, which you obviously hold so dearly. I can respect that, but I have to say that many of your comments with regard to the expertise (or lack thereof) of other members on Talkbass really don't do much for your credibility around here. To some, it might seem that your highly defensive style borders on some sort of mania.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Ninestring
John-

aren't you the moderator on this thread ? Let's keep on topic. Hey why don't you start a thread John Turner vs Garry Goodman-we can trash each other for days .you be the moderator so it won't get closed down. it will be like a Jerry Springer thing ! What do you think ?-it will provide TB With hours of entertainment. we can write a book on it and sell it !

is this your idea of a response? get over yourself. you have still continued to insult me, and you can't even do me the simple courtesy of addressing my issues.

as for keeping "on topic",i'm sorry, but you don't dictate the topic of this thread, the whole participating community does.

part of that topic is your wise ass comments belittling my contributions to the 7 string community. i asked you nicely to recognize your error and your lack of civility when you have been met with nothing but civility from me, and you spit in my face.

not a good choice of actions.

 

[Samie]

Originally posted by Treena Foster
Yes, he did Samie.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]



Hope you find this info useful!

Treena

Wow, he has designed 3 of the all time most popular basses then.

The presicion, the jazz-bass, and the sting-ray!! Amazing, and they all have different characters

 

[Wolfehollow]

...nice docs! I do find it strange that Ken says he did not do business with you yet there are tons of(*edit... a few)letters saying otherwise... I follow that the deposit would not be that much for a regular bass, but it does not say 7 string except for the money order... did I miss anything? I certainly see that you were doing business with him in 82... hmmmm.

Ken?

...and, we need a spell checker in this forum. I cant tell if you are just so angry that you are typing too fast or what... one or two words is understandable... I guess its not important.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by Ninestring
If the 7 string doesn't matter much to you ,and you have posted what you read in the magazine ,please keep the opinions down to a minimum

why should brad keep his opinions to a minimum? who do you think you are? do you really think that being the first known individual with a 7 string bass entitles you to be a bully?

grow up.

 

[Wolfehollow]

Cant we just find out if he ordered a bass from Ken or not????? everything else is trivial... in my opinion.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Originally posted by Wolfehollow
Cant we just find out if he ordered a bass from Ken or not????? everything else is trivial... in my opinion.

So simple, so right....
I think we have a winner.

 

[john turner]

why? what does that have to do with "the topic of the thread". remember, we need to "stay on topic".

 

[Peter Parker]

I have been playing for 20 years, 10 of which were professionally. 5 of those were done in Nashville where I did a ton of demo dates and much live playing. I no longer do it professionally so I guess I don't "matter" anymore.
The money order doesn't convince me. You clearly darkened the writing as there is apparent doubling of several of the letters. You may have done this so that it would show in the picture. But it would have been very easy for you to scribble 7 "strig" on the bottom. When someone says as you did that "they don't believe in lying" my gut tells me they are a liar. Maybe you did attempt to do business with Ken 21 years ago, there still seems to be no proof that it was a 7 string. I will say this: if I sent in a deposit of $200, which the money order shows to be $150, if I didn't get an instrument for my money I would damn sure get my money back. $200 is not small change, especially for a working musician in 81. Perhaps you paid a deposit but then couldn't come up with the rest to actually get the bass therefor forfeiting your original deposit?
I could care less if you are a professional musician. It means nothing. You're not curing cancer or eliminating AIDS, or contributing to mankind in any significant way. You're nothing special, there's many professional musicians out there that are doing much more for music than you. Again, you really need to get over yourself.

 

[godoze]

Gary I might suggest that you get off the internet and into those tracks that are paying your mortgage...which is more important ?


Like I wrote earlier, you need to get over yourself in a big way. You are not the only professional musician around.

 

[PhatBasstard]

Originally posted by john turner
why? what does that have to do with "the topic of the thread". remember, we need to "stay on topic".

"The first 7 string electric bass". I think if it's proven that Ken did or did not start work on one back in '81 or '82, it's very much related to the topic of the thread. Plus it seems to be a very big point of contention with everyone right now. Seems "on topic" to me.

 

[mcbassdude]

Originally posted by Treena Foster
Garry, my credits have been in question on this board for a couple of weeks now.

It's okay, the ones who know me, know the truth. Those that matter, know the truth.

I personally contacted Bob Lee because I knew he worked for Mike Tobias and I knew he could shed some light on this discussion.

I do not doubt your 7 string status or you being the first to have one built. You also keep excellent records and I for one would like to see what Ken has to say to you and the Talk Bass members who have taken interest in this topic.

Garry your evidence stands on it's own, it's right there in black and white for those who doubt to see.

This seems to be more of an issue for Ken Smith now!

I respect you both and hope this is resolved soon.

Treena

A voice of reason thru the fog
Nice post.

 

[pilotjones]

Garry

Re: the evidence

- you certainly seem to have shown that you were doing some business with KS in March 82, on a custom order.

- I hate to point this out but - regarding the money order: It does look odd, because the stamped $150.00 and the handwritten 150.00 are very light; your name and address and "7 string D." are somewhat darker; and the payee and the date are very dark, and are clearly overwritten. I won't be the only person who notices this.

- 3/15/82, you have a money order made (assumed as a deposit); same day, KS sends you a note and pictures of selected wood facings. It appears that these two crossed each other in the mail. 3/17/82, KS sends you a letter, with photos of the glued up and cut body halves. The wood grain of the photo does match the 3/15 wood selection picture. Assuming it took at least a day for a money order to be mailed out by you and to be received by KS (I don't remember whether next day air was available in '82), that means that he works very quickly, and that he was willing to glue up and cut wood with only a $150.00 deposit (unless you made a second deposit somewhere). (Ken's 3/15 letter would indicate that he had not received any deposit at the time he wrote it, which would mean that your $150 the first funding.) I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, just clarifying the timeline.

- regarding KS' writing on the back of the 3/17 photo: (I quote here): "Received your check. I'll send you one big receipt when the deposit is paid in full.(about $2000-) Thanks, Ken." Unfortunately, this can also easily be taken to mean that a deposit was received, and that the full price of the bass is about $2000 (which, as you yourself have pointed out, is in line with his "normal" bass pricing at the time), and that he will send you a "paid in full" receipt when the job is fully paid.

Just pointing out possible problems (which is part my job description ) with your case. Hope you can settle this so that there are no doubts.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Peter Parker
Why does it matter what I do for a living? Do you honestly think because your only source of income is playing music makes your opinion worth any more than mine? Are you wanting to be remembered for being the first to think of and then follow through on a 7 string? WHy does it matter? You've mentioned techniques that you want to be known for as well. Again, what does it matter? Until you come up with MUSIC that is memorable you are a nobody to me. The instrument you play, the techniques you use are unimportant compared to the actual notes that are being played. Right now, though you've been playing a long time, VERY few people even know who you are. I imagine you are just another flashy player with no soul.

Brad, I recently got fired from the Elf gig so I am now doing the Spiderman thing full time. So far, it's working for me

Somehow I didn't think it would last. Contrary to popular opinion, Elfin' is much harder than people think.

 

[godoze]

Wait a minute...I'M Spiderman !