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The First 7 String Electric Bass

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#321
Originally posted by JAUQO III-X
Hey Fella's Im not here to tell men how to respect each other but with all due respect can we stop the negative remarks and get to the original ? this is an interesting thread for many reasons,lets keep it open until and see how it all plays out.
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Jauqo, I lay out some info from a magazine that has been brought up and now Garry has an attitude about my "opinions". He's really helping his case:rolleyes:

I'd ask him to point out the opinions vs. facts in my last posts but he hasn't responded to any of my other requests for clarification.

:hmm:

It is an interesting thread and I'd like to see how it plays out too. I have no reason to hope it was anyone other than Garry who invented the 7. Unfortunately IMO (;)) I don't see his misinterpretations and blanket dismissals as helping his case.
 
#322
[ comment from the cheap seats ]

Man, every time I think this thread is starting to get logical and grounded, there's a new eruption of misunderstanding, defensiveness, and accusation. So entertaining! (yet disappointing at the same time)

[ /comment from the cheap seats ]
 
#323
Following this thread has been very entertaining...

And as an aside I think Peter Parker's comments concerning a "real" bass are obvious as to what he meant. At least it was to me...
 
#324
Originally posted by Peter Parker
How is it possible that you don't understand what I said? Re-read what I posted and if you still don't understand, you are in need of much more help than I thought.
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what do you do for a living ?

I suppose this is why some of you accuse me of being arrogant. KEN SSMith implys he never heard of e ,never took and order #052 for a 7 string bass ,never took my deposit -and that should apologize now- let's see what arrogance means. I read your post ,and unlike you ,i am busy. I am a full time composer/musician/bassist/. I work a 12 hour day. I don't have time to "interpret" your post . I read anything other than Tobias made a 7 string bass in 1987 for Garry Goodman-it's not valid . You have Brad(Nothing personal , Brad) say a guy claims to have had the first 7 string at a NAMM Show in 1986 ,now it's 1987-it's here say> Once people heard or saw the Tobias a 1987 bass- look what happened . This thread is about bare bone facts , noot yoour oopinions -not your opinions. If you don't have something to add thhat is seriously rlevant- don't post . I like Brad-he is reasonable , and he has earned my respect. I know MC Bass Dude saw me play my various 7 strings from 1977 on as did many .

I am about to post a link that will change things on this thread .

KEN Smith says "apologize now" I wouldn't take a deposit etc." I have no record of Garry Goodman ". he say s "I kept the records then' , and taht there was no order no.'s let alone #)52. Essentially ,he is calling me a liar. I have a credible witness and now i will post a link that will show all Ken Smith's claims are BS> His best argument is "where do i mention 7 string bass"? " I ask Ken show me it wasn't. You'll see my 4 string made from a different piece of wood and Ken telling me in 1982 he needs about $2000 deposit for my bass. The bass I bought in a pinch because my basses were en route to hawaii via cargo ship in an ld 3 container listed for $ @400 and I got it for $18oo. What happened to the bass in the 1982 photos you will see. if the photos you will see were not taken on a 35 mm,tell what kind of camers thhey were taken on.

You will see in time that all 7 string basses came from seeing Tobias #975. Patterson -and I hope he comes forwarward -didn't have a 7 string bass in 1986 -please prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a dobut ,and I' ll shut up . If you thought of a 7 string bass before 1976 ,come forward and tell me why you didn't follow up on it. I am starting to think KEn SMith is hiding somnething and that is why he is so insistant I never order a 7 string bass from him. I was using a low B string on my 6 string bass in 1976. So were a few other guys. Emmet CHapman had aa low B string on his STick in 1974.. This thread is about the beginnings of an instrument. it is amazing many want to disprove history than learn the truth. . A music store SUpPOSEDLY commissioned , commissioned Patterson to build a 7 string. Really? Why ? and why then ?
 
#326
Originally posted by Ninestring

I am about to post a link that will change things on this thread .
Click to expand...

I'd like to see this link.

The comment that many people want to disprove history is a bit harsh. The fact is that there is contradictory evidence of when the first "real" 7 string bass was built.

Geoff
 
#327
Gary, I'm a professional composer/bassist and frankly I'm surprised you get any work at all with your attitude.

You need to get over yourself in a hurry before you go down in flames.

How on earth can you possibly make the claims you are making wihthout proof positive that you are correct ?

what came first ? The Chicken or the Egg ? Who the hell cares at this point !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Man, you are pissing me off and I don't get pissed off too often, especially not on a message board.

You've got issues friend.




(i'll wait for the counter attack now...)
 
#328
and besides that, where are these pictures and letters that you were going to post ? where is this smoking gun link ? YOu've got balls calling into question the business ethics of one of the most brilliant luthiers of our time.

We've all heard of Ken, who the hell has ever heard of you ? ? ?

and frankly, knobody cares who you are or what you do.
 
#332
Originally posted by Ninestring
what do you do for a living ?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that from Thanksgiving to December 25th Peter works as a full sized elf, much like the Will Ferrell character. The rest of the year he's Spiderman.


That probably clears something up;)

I suppose this is why some of you accuse me of being arrogant. KEN SSMith implys he never heard of e ,never took and order #052 for a 7 string bass ,never took my deposit -and that should apologize now- let's see what arrogance means. I read your post ,and unlike you ,i am busy. I am a full time composer/musician/bassist/. I work a 12 hour day. I don't have time to "interpret" your post . I read anything other than Tobias made a 7 string bass in 1987 for Garry Goodman-it's not valid . You have Brad(Nothing personal , Brad) say a guy claims to have had the first 7 string at a NAMM Show in 1986 ,now it's 1987-it's here say> Once people heard or saw the Tobias a 1987 bass- look what happened . This thread is about bare bone facts , noot yoour oopinions -not your opinions. If you don't have something to add thhat is seriously rlevant- don't post . I like Brad-he is reasonable , and he has earned my respect. I know MC Bass Dude saw me play my various 7 strings from 1977 on as did many .
Click to expand...

Garry, in the long run it probably takes less time to interpret a post than misinterpret it. Just a thought.

One last time... I did not say the Patterson bass was at the NAMM show in 1986. I'd like to know why you keep saying I said it? I put up verbatim quotes from the magazine. The only reason I found the articles was because I went looking for my copy because a friend of mine asked me to see if I could find out who the luthier was.

While you may not like some of the posts in this thread, you don't get to decide who gets to post... that's just not how it works.

I am about to post a link that will change things on this thread .

KEN Smith says "apologize now" I wouldn't take a deposit etc." I have no record of Garry Goodman ". he say s "I kept the records then' , and taht there was no order no.'s let alone #)52. Essentially ,he is calling me a liar. I have a credible witness and now i will post a link that will show all Ken Smith's claims are BS> His best argument is "where do i mention 7 string bass"? " I ask Ken show me it wasn't. You'll see my 4 string made from a different piece of wood and Ken telling me in 1982 he needs about $2000 deposit for my bass. The bass I bought in a pinch because my basses were en route to hawaii via cargo ship in an ld 3 container listed for $ @400 and I got it for $18oo. What happened to the bass in the 1982 photos you will see. if the photos you will see were not taken on a 35 mm,tell what kind of camers thhey were taken on.

You will see in time that all 7 string basses came from seeing Tobias #975. Patterson -and I hope he comes forwarward -didn't have a 7 string bass in 1986 -please prove me wrong beyond a shadow of a dobut ,and I' ll shut up . If you thought of a 7 string bass before 1976 ,come forward and tell me why you didn't follow up on it. I am starting to think KEn SMith is hiding somnething and that is why he is so insistant I never order a 7 string bass from him. I was using a low B string on my 6 string bass in 1976. So were a few other guys. Emmet CHapman had aa low B string on his STick in 1974.. This thread is about the beginnings of an instrument. it is amazing many want to disprove history than learn the truth. . A music store SUpPOSEDLY commissioned , commissioned Patterson to build a 7 string. Really? Why ? and why then ?
Click to expand...

Garry, name someone in this thread who is trying to disprove history (besides the stuff between you and Ken;))? If you can, please answer this one question. It may shed some light on why this thread has taken the turns it has.

The people who would have knowledge of the Patterson bass have been identified multiple times. Anyone is free to try and contact them... AFAIK they're the only ones who can answer your Patterson questions. That would be Joe Campagna, Dave Patterson and Beaver Felton.

BTW it may not even be a Patterson bass... that's the impression I got from the articles I quoted.

Okay, how about just putting the proof out there and let's put this puppy to bed?
 
#334
Originally posted by Ninestring
what do you do for a living ?
Click to expand...

Why does it matter what I do for a living? Do you honestly think because your only source of income is playing music makes your opinion worth any more than mine? Are you wanting to be remembered for being the first to think of and then follow through on a 7 string? WHy does it matter? You've mentioned techniques that you want to be known for as well. Again, what does it matter? Until you come up with MUSIC that is memorable you are a nobody to me. The instrument you play, the techniques you use are unimportant compared to the actual notes that are being played. Right now, though you've been playing a long time, VERY few people even know who you are. I imagine you are just another flashy player with no soul.

Brad, I recently got fired from the Elf gig so I am now doing the Spiderman thing full time. So far, it's working for me:D
 
#336
This begins the process of establishing my credibility with you Talk Bass members . I mentioned earlier that in 1981 (and 1982) that I spoke with Ken Smith and ordered a 7 string bass ,gave him a deposit ,but he was unable,for what ever reason, to finish the bass. Is this bad? No.
Ken posted and said I never spoke to him about a 7 string , that I should apologize now because I never spoke with him ,gave him a deposit or had any dealings with him in 1981 -82, And you call me arrogant.

He goes on to say his name was smeared and he had no records of EVER doing business with me.

I respect Ken Smith,his wonderful basses and his accomplishments.he needs to "fess up"

You need to know something about me. I don't believe in lying ,or BS.

I am going to present the first "volley" of evidence that will establish Ken Smith's arrogant comments as a ploy to cover up something he doesn't want you to find out. he as been to nasty to have simply "forgotten' our conversations.
i will bring you eye witnesses and more documentation. i have to take abreak for the holidays.


Here is the first group of scans
so far the best Ken can come up with is "show me where i refer to a 7 string bass'
Well Ken-you have lied or "forgotten" everything else at this point ,why should anything you say be valid ? We will see what you are all about..




This is a scan of two photos of Ken Smith pas II , serial # 099 I purchased in 1984 from Easy Music in Hawaii in 1984 . Notice the wood used in the body. Easy Music only had four string basses at the time ,and I needed a bass becaause my 6 and 7 string basses were on an LD 3 container enroute from California, a 3 week trip , and I needed a bass to work. I want to show that the bass Ken was making in 1982 is not this bass. Notice the shape of the 'butt" of the bass.


KS%23099.jpg






This is out of sequence ,but here is a money order receipt made out o Ken Smith Basses ltd. for the amount of $ !50.oo. A good faith start for a 7 string bass. Notice the carbon didn't get all of the 7 string bass deposit . This is a tracable money order and is quite authentic. I am searching for more. So much for Ken's claims.



MO-KS.jpg







I told Ken I wanted flamed maple for the body . Now I purchased the 4 string in 1984 from Easy music in Hawaii . The list price was $ 2400

I got it for $1800. After installing an 18 volt parametric pre amp from Jim Williams ,the bass was unbelievable
Ken acknowledges my deposit TOWARDS A $2000 DEPOSIT !! What 4 string or 5 string needed that much of a deposit in 1982 ?
I told Ken in 1981 that I was playing a Fender six and a "jury riiged" 7 with a low B string . To make a custom 7 string bridge ,pick ups etc . was going to cost more . Funny how KEn Smith started making 6 string bases with a low B string-oh , I forgot,Ken invented that bass!

Ken says none of this happened. Since it did ,what bass were you making for me? Where is it ? What is the serial number ? Why did i never receive it ? Why do you have no record of it and why did you send me photos of this bass ?
At this point whether it was a 2 string or a 10 string- who is going to believe you ? This never happened according to you. Is this your hand writing ? I was only interested in a custom 7 string bass,not a 4 ,5 or a 6. That is why a few years later,i found Tobias and he made a 7 string bass.

Ken ,who denies ever taking my order ,denies that he used order numbers , and asks me to show him where my name and his name appears on the same paper simply doesn't want you to know the truth. This photo paper clearly shows March 1982 and establishes that Ken either didn't keep good records or is hiding something.


basswood.jpg



Ken just flat out implies i am full of @#*!
So far we have read that ( sorry Ken, I didn't want it to come to this) i never gave Ken a deposit in 1982 , he has no record of him ever doing business with me in 1982 ,and although i haven't made our correspondence public, when I gave Ken order # 052 ,he told me he didn't use order numbers .

So Ken Smith says he never took a deposit ,never did business with me ,didn't use oirder numbers like # 052 and basically is calling me a liar. Are you going to believe him when he says the order wasn't for a 7 string /?-Wait ,i forgot ,there was no order.



Here's a letter ,the bottom half i've yet to find
of course Ken has no record of me but he can't deny this is not his handwriting. I would never have to cough up a deposit of $2000 for a 4 or 5 string ,back in 1982 ,let alone a six ,which i owned 5 of.. -oh yeah ,I forgot1 Ken has no record of me ever ordering a bass!




kensmithletter.jpg









Hears a photo of a bass,clearly not 099.. Ken says I never gave him a deposit. $2000 just as a deposit ? Not the same bass as 009.
he NEVEr took a deposit from me but....
i should apologize now!!!!



rearbodyKS.jpg


I am searching for more and after having eye witnesses from the time post here ,we will see who needs to apologize.

I have 30 file boxes to search through ,but as you can see ,so far , i have proof .that i did do business with Ken Smith in 1982. If he's wrong about that ,you can bet he's wrong about a 7 string.

do I hate Ken ? -no, Do I think he is a jerk?-no

Here's the truth: I ordered a 7 string bass guitar from Ken Smith circa 1981-82. It was neve completed. I gave him a deposit . I never ,ever wrote that I never got anything for the money. he offered my deposit back several times ,it is my fault for not getting it . I don't want it .

What do I want- the truth- Ken could just say -yeah ,you ordered a 7 string bass in 1982 .
It's what really happened . More "evidence" to come .
i have been playing 7 string bass forb 25 years-that's a fact.
 
#337
Hi Garry,
I don't think I followed the entire story, but I was wondering about this:
so far , i have proof .that i did do business with Ken Smith in 1982. If he's wrong about that ,you can bet he's wrong about a 7 string.
Click to expand...
Is this the bottom line? Because if so, I don't think that it follows the rules of logic. If one person is wrong about one thing, it does not necessarily follow that he or she is wrong about all things.

I should add that I admire your dedication to this and am looking forward to seeing how this thread unfolds.
 
#338
sir you need to calm down.

everyone registered to this site has equal right to post.

there is no requirement of experience or number of gigs played before posting is allowed.

if there was then i surely couldn't, because i rarely play with other musicians, and never professionally.

also maybe you should consider not taking yourself so seriously. have a sense of humor when somebody pokes fun.

for example, a few pages back me and phatbasstard were ready to aim missiles at each others homes, but with one joke the problem was resolved and i hold no ill will against him.

just words to think about
 
#339
Garry, FWIW, I know who you are and I am aware of your credits.

I am a union member and have played bass on a number of sessions for 33 years.

I do respect all players and we each have different levels.

Respect is not owed, it's earned. Everyone registered at this site has equal right to post.

Until recently, some players on this board were not aware of your contribution to the 7 string bass, they are now, so conduct yourself like the sessioned Pro that you are! Don't let anyone's amature status push your buttons, you're a pro dude and those that matter, know this!

It's very obvious we are passionate about our work, that's why it's easy to be upset by others off handed remarks.

Educate those who insult you Garry, you have the knowlegde and the experience to rise above the pettiness.


If one person is wrong about one thing, it does not necessarily follow that he or she is wrong about all things.
Click to expand...

FC, is absolutely right about this comment.

grinning-smiley-043.gif

Treena
 
#340
Originally posted by funkycarnivore
Hi Garry,
I don't think I followed the entire story, but I was wondering about this:

Is this the bottom line? Because if so, I don't think that it follows the rules of logic. If one person is wrong about one thing, it does not necessarily follow that he or she is wrong about all things.

I should add that I admire your dedication to this and am looking forward to seeing how this thread unfolds.
Click to expand...

so far ,he is wrong about everything . Believe me ,i don't enjoy this . I didn't want this to be a public ordeal. I have been on the 7 string bass trail for just about 30 years . i only contacted him because i wanted a 7 string made. that's why i was happy when michael Tobias made me a 7 string in 1987 . Do you think I read the article with the interview in 1989 and went back in time to 1987 to get my bass built ? when i wrote nobody was thinking 7 string bass back then , everyone i talked to thought i was crazy . it was not a very popular idea. it wasn't a subject of discussion among bass players. I didn't read about 7 string bass in the trade magazines ,or see 7 strings at the namm show in1986 ,87 ,or even 89.

the bottom line/ i don't like to be called a liar ,especially when what i sat transpired ,actually did . If i was wrong , i think it would be in my best interest to say i was and that i was sorry and mo on. if someone tolod you you weren't who you are ,are you going to agree with them ,even if they are Ken Smith ? What makes Jauqo's or MC Bass Dudes post less valid than Ken Smiths ? I was seen playing a 7 string in 1978 and had Tobias make me a 7 string in 1987 ,why is it so far out that I could have asked Ken Smith to make a 7 in 1982 . it's quite real. Jauqo asked the question ,i didn't . it would be a lie if I didn't say 'hey, i have been playing 7 string since 1977". I don't care if any of you believe me ,but it's that many of you go out of your way to tryt to discredit me . You ask where ? Re read this post frrom the top . I think Ken Smith should have said" let's figure this ot' in his first post ,not"apologize now'.

i don't say Ken Smith is wrong about all things. why do you go nthere? We are talking about my bass order-only.I neede a 7 string then and he says i am full of it-in so many words. What would you do? if you did this post ,and for some reason you told me about it 20 years from now ,and i said-no you didn't, what would you say ?
 
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