The First 7 String Electric Bass

[mcbassdude]

Originally posted by abark000
well that is a point. but shoving it down somebody's throat is arrogance at it's worst.

in regards to the aspect of recognition, if you know it in your own heart to be true then why force it upon people when it is dismissed by them.

and while jaco had boatloads more talent than i ever will, from what i have read and heard about him, he was a arrogant about every accomplishment he had ever made. which doesn't not mean he was not a good man,(i dont know hardly enough to make assumptions) just that he reportly had an arrogant nature.

but with the continued posting of this thread which boasts of accomplishments and inventions the "first" seven-stringer player ,however talented and well respected, seems to become more and more arrogant and petty.

keep in mind the invention in question is not one that i would consider having great merit in the long run of inventions and discoveries.

For example if you invented a reliable cheap alternative to gasoline then i could understand the reason behind proving your claim, but to fight this much over who invented an instrument that is still widely unaccepted even in bass-playing communities such as this seems ridiculous to me. (Not a poke at extended range instruments either, i plan to buy a six string in the near future)

I took time to respond to this and believe it well thoughtout response with good points but in the end it is only my humble opinion.

PS. Happy holidays to all parties

I remind you that Ninestring didn't start this thread, Jauqo did. Ninestring is just giving info he has, to answer the question posed and a debate has ensued. Is that really shoving it down peoples throats?
Regardless of your opinion of the value of the accomplishment of developing the first 7, I can't knock anyone for being proud of what they have accomplished whether it saves the world or not. Not every concept or device saves the planet and yet they still enrich our lives. It would seem to me the 7 string has enriched a few on this thread alone.
Why the need to diminish this accomplishment?

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by abark000
jt i listened to versatile residue or whatever

(garth voice on)
i'm not worthy, i'm not worthy
(garth voice off)

awesome song man, i figured out part(the wrong way, but passable) of the first riff,

is the rest of the cd like this

thanks , yeah the rest of the cd is pretty much like this, not quite so "indulgent" maybe, but still, same kind of thing, except there's vocals, up to 3 part harmonies in some parts.

here's a link to our garageband site where we have a few songs up from the cd...

http://www.garageband.com/artist/lordonly

check 'em out and let me know what you think.

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by mcbassdude

Why the need to diminish this accomplishment?

i asked the same of garry earlier with regards to my own contributions (substantially more than "a few pictures and an instrumental"), and i am still waiting for a response .

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Ninestring
Jauqo wants to know. a picture and article came out in 1989 saying that was the first 7 string bass. Ask Bob Lee or Michael Tobias about building a 7 string for me in 1987. i am not "driving it into the ground " but some of you are really hoping to prove me wrong . The luthier of the bass on the magazine cover is Dave Patterson ? I did a search and he only made 4 5 and 6 strings for sale . Why would a guy who invented the 7 string bass-not ever sell them ?

I'm not trying to prove you wrong. No offense but it means nothing to me who did this first. OTOH I do understand why it means so much to you.

As far as why Patterson never sold a 7 based on your search, the first thing to understand is...


not everything is on the internet

Information on smaller builders back then can be very scant. I understand your need to get the truth out but why cast dispersions on others? It doesn't really prove or disprove anything on it's own.

By finding Patterson on the web it does prove that he actually did build basses. IMO that lends
credence to the First Bass article.

BTW The sole reason for my participation is... I love a good mystery.

Once again Jamaaladeen told Jauqo the bass had close spacing ,which btw doesn't affect the range of the bass and make it a baritone. Then Peter comes on with :that photo and article from 1989 is proof enough for me the ninestring doesn't have the first "real" 7 string bass comments. What's not real about it ?

Again, I'm sure you misread what he was saying.
Honest mistake.

I'm 50 years old now, how old is the guy with the Tobias 7 string in the picture ? take a guess if david Patterson can't come up with veriyable documentation for his 7 string predating my 7 string built by Michael Tobias, and no one was playing if it did exiist until 1989

David Patterson has not been a part of this discussion AFAIK and has made no claims of any sort. If someone knows how to contact him, cool. Back in his store's magazine dated Winter 1989, Joe Campagna of Bass-Mint said it was the first 7 string, commissioned by his store. If someone knows how to contact him, cool.

then can we stop this nonsense ? I was at NAMM IN 1986 and 87'-I went to every booth and no one offered a 7 string bass. Saying Michael Tobias didn't build a "Real" bass is nonsense.

This brings up an interesting point. According to Beaver's letter (if it's real), he saw the bass at the 1987 Chicago NAMM show. That's the same show Joe C. said he took it to.

If someone wants to contact Beaver, cool.

And we know no one said Mike didn't build a "real" bass.

 

[mcbassdude]

Originally posted by john turner
i asked the same of garry earlier with regards to my own contributions (substantially more than "a few pictures and an instrumental"), and i am still waiting for a response .

I don't think ANYONE at anytime should look to diminish anothers creative process. Music is subjective and there are no "wrong" notes. One's dissonant cacophony is anothers sweet melody.

JT and Garry have quite a bit in common and if you two ever meet I think you'll probably be fast friends.

 

[godoze]

One of my current students was a student of Beavers...I'll get him to call the Beav.

 

[NJL]

Originally posted by Ninestring
why are you on this thread? Why are you posting here ?

i often wonder the same about you.

 

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I just opened his email and see it is a photo with my writing but very vague. I can't tell and it doesn't mention anything about a 7-string. Since Garry brought the whole subject up, Here is my email to him in response;

Garry, The photo does not refer to a 7-string in anyway. The note is not addressed to you either! It is our regular 4-string body wing. I don't know how much deposit you sent from this and I don't know if you received it back or used it for another purchase along the way. You said on TB that you gave me a deposit and never got anything for it. Then you said I offered it back to you but you never accepted it. So if that's true, then why are you even mentioning it. You , by your own words abandoned your alleged deposit 21 years ago. We have no record of the transaction in our records. By bringing this up on TB , you are calling me dishonest. Send me some more proof where I, or even you refer to this deposit as being for a 7-string. As well as something with both yours and my name on the same piece of paper. Please post this on TB so they can see what we are referring to.

Thank you,

Ken Smith
President/Owner
Ken Smith Basses, Ltd.
ph: 215-453-8887
www.kensmithbasses.com

 

[john turner]

Originally posted by mcbassdude

JT and Garry have quite a bit in common and if you two ever meet I think you'll probably be fast friends.

well, here's to hoping i want to be everybody's friend.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by john turner
well, here's to hoping i want to be everybody's friend.

Aw, gimme a hug, ya big goober

 

[Garry Goodman]

Originally posted by Peter Parker
Ninestring, according to what Brad posted, the 7 string was made in late 1986 for some store. Beaver had seen it at a NAMM show. If it was built in late 86 that makes it earlier then your 87 Tobias. Sure, the magazine is from 89 but that doesn't mean that was when the bass was made. Also, you didn't understand my comment about "real" seven. I didn't say your Tobias wasn't a real bass. My comment simply suggests that it was the 2nd "real" 7 string, just not the first. What I mean by real is that it was not some modified 6 string but was designed from the start to be a 7 string.
I suggest you step back from this thread and breathe. You're working your panties into a bunch for nothing.

it is very easy in 2003 for re-visonist to re-write history. if someone wanted to beat me to the punch ,it was real easy to say in an interview the 7 string was at the 1986 NAMM Show. well to use some of you TB'ers words-prove it! I was at the 86 show in Californias with the sole purpose of getting a 7 string made. Ther was no Patterson 7 string there. Brad is just reporting what he read. If such a bass existed in 1986 -why did it not appear anywhere until Winter 1989 after I had been getting publicity as the first 7 string bassist.

How come the bass wasn't at the 87 and 88 and 89 NAMM SHow.? Why wasn't any one playing it ?. Why is there no record in any in the American Federation of Musicians union directory until I created the 7 string bass catagory. I don't believe everything that is printed ,do you ?

Patterson may have been one of the many luthiers I contacted between1979 and 1986 that said they couldn't build one. Patterson guitars list they make 4,5, and 6 string basses on the Blue Book site. Why not a 7 string ,especially after such a convincing article in 1989? If someone made a 7 string in 1978 and said it was at the 1975 NAMM show-somewhere, are you going to swallow that ? I want to see proof just like KEN Smith and I have been digging through files ,if it is so important to pre date my efforts -lets see proof . The paper the photos were printed on that I sent Ken Smith even have "Kodak March 1982 printed on it. every luthier I know who makes a new kind of bass getts it out right away to establish they were first with their innovative ideas. I talked with many vendors at the 86 show and 87 ,nobody said "I saw a 7 string at the 86 show". At this point it's not verified ,so you can't pass judgement .

 

[Peter Parker]

Originally posted by Ninestring
it is very easy in 2003 for re-visonist to re-write history. if someone wanted to beat me to the punch ,it was real easy to say in an interview the 7 string was at the 1986 NAMM Show. well to use some of you TB'ers words-prove it! I was at the 86 show in Californias with the sole purpose of getting a 7 string made. Ther was no Patterson 7 string there. Brad is just reporting what he read. If such a bass existed in 1986 -why did it not appear anywhere until Winter 1989 after I had been getting publicity as the first 7 string bassist.

How come the bass wasn't at the 87 and 88 and 89 NAMM SHow.? Why wasn't any one playing it ?. Why is there no record in any in the American Federation of Musicians union directory until I created the 7 string bass catagory. I don't believe everything that is printed ,do you ?

Patterson may have been one of the many luthiers I contacted between1979 and 1986 that said they couldn't build one. Patterson guitars list they make 4,5, and 6 string basses on the Blue Book site. Why not a 7 string ,especially after such a convincing article in 1989? If someone made a 7 string in 1978 and said it was at the 1975 NAMM show-somewhere, are you going to swallow that ? I want to see proof just like KEN Smith and I have been digging through files ,if it is so important to pre date my efforts -lets see proof . The paper the photos were printed on that I sent Ken Smith even have "Kodak March 1982 printed on it. every luthier I know who makes a new kind of bass getts it out right away to establish they were first with their innovative ideas. I talked with many vendors at the 86 show and 87 ,nobody said "I saw a 7 string at the 86 show". At this point it's not verified ,so you can't pass judgement .

Well, when I compare what Brad(I know you are trying to prove anything, Brad) has presented with the magazine article and what you have, which is nothing but what's coming out of your mouth, I have to go with what was printed in 89. The bass in question was supposedly at the 87 NAMM show. I think a good reason why nobody knew about it or made a big deal of it back then was that nobody wanted a 7 string. It's still not an instrument that is widely used. I think you are losing it man. Give up. You didn't have the first 7. It's OK. Nobody will think less of you. I promise nobody would have thought more of you had you been the first. Whatever your deal with Ken Smith is strange too. You don't want the deposit returned, you do want the deposit. It doesn't make since. You don't seem to have any more proof that you paid Ken any money then you have proof of having the first 7 string. It seems as though you have some serious issues you need to deal with. Step away from the computer and seek help.

 

[Garry Goodman]

Originally posted by Brad Johnson
I'm not trying to prove you wrong. No offense but it means nothing to me who did this first. OTOH I do understand why it means so much to you.

If the 7 string doesn't matter much to you ,and you have posted what you read in the magazine ,please keep the opinions down to a minimum

when some one says the Tobias isn't a real bass-I take it literally this is the internet. His explanation make no sense to me a bout a second" real" bass

ok i thought you wrote 1986 NAMM show-1987 is it ? Read Bob Lee's Post
i started dialogue with him on a 7 string at the end of 86'. The Tobias 7 string has been placed at 1987.
People saw a good thing and wanted a piece of it ,that's why 7 string bass is where it is today.

 

[Garry Goodman]

Originally posted by john turner
i asked the same of garry earlier with regards to my own contributions (substantially more than "a few pictures and an instrumental"), and i am still waiting for a response .

John-

aren't you the moderator on this thread ? Let's keep on topic. Hey why don't you start a thread John Turner vs Garry Goodman-we can trash each other for days .you be the moderator so it won't get closed down. it will be like a Jerry Springer thing ! What do you think ?-it will provide TB With hours of entertainment. we can write a book on it and sell it !

 

[Peter Parker]

Originally posted by Ninestring

Originally posted by Brad Johnson

when some one says the Tobias isn't a real bass-I take it literally this is the internet. His explanation make no sense to me a bout a second" real" bass

How is it possible that you don't understand what I said? Re-read what I posted and if you still don't understand, you are in need of much more help than I thought.

 

[Wolfehollow]

I love this thread! Im waiting for more info though! I need to see pics...

That JT v GG thread would involve way too many strings to be put on a bass forum!!! hehe

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Ninestring
it is very easy in 2003 for re-visonist to re-write history. if someone wanted to beat me to the punch ,it was real easy to say in an interview the 7 string was at the 1986 NAMM Show. well to use some of you TB'ers words-prove it!

This isn't really revisionist. It sounds as if you're saying that Joe Campagna tried to beat you to the punch by publishing an article in his Winter 1989 magazine. That was back then, not now.

He said the bass was at the 1987 Chicago NAMM show. You're saying this is not true. That would also make the letter from Beaver Felton a fabrication or Beaver was not truthful about seeing it at the 1987 show. It would be nice to hear from Beaver one way or the other.

I was at the 86 show in Californias with the sole purpose of getting a 7 string made. Ther was no Patterson 7 string there. Brad is just reporting what he read. If such a bass existed in 1986 -why did it not appear anywhere until Winter 1989 after I had been getting publicity as the first 7 string bassist.

That's not what the magazine said. Joe C. didn't say it was at the 1986 show but rather the 1987 show. It's your contention that it wasn't at either and instead didn't show up until 1989.

How come the bass wasn't at the 87 and 88 and 89 NAMM SHow.? Why wasn't any one playing it ?. Why is there no record in any in the American Federation of Musicians union directory until I created the 7 string bass catagory. I don't believe everything that is printed ,do you ?

So far you're the only one contending that it wasn't at the 1987 show. Maybe Joe C. and Beaver were mistaken. OTOH could you be? Just a question.

Patterson may have been one of the many luthiers I contacted between1979 and 1986 that said they couldn't build one. Patterson guitars list they make 4,5, and 6 string basses on the Blue Book site. Why not a 7 string ,especially after such a convincing article in 1989? If someone made a 7 string in 1978 and said it was at the 1975 NAMM show-somewhere, are you going to swallow that ? I want to see proof just like KEN Smith and I have been digging through files ,if it is so important to pre date my efforts -lets see proof . The paper the photos were printed on that I sent Ken Smith even have "Kodak March 1982 printed on it. every luthier I know who makes a new kind of bass getts it out right away to establish they were first with their innovative ideas. I talked with many vendors at the 86 show and 87 ,nobody said "I saw a 7 string at the 86 show". At this point it's not verified ,so you can't pass judgement .

But Garry, you're passing judgement... why can't anyone else?

I think everyone knows that the Blue Books are hardly an infallible source of info so I don't think that proves anything. As far as why Patterson's BB listing didn't mention 7 strings, did Mike start listing 7 strings in the old Tobias line after building yours?

As far as getting innovations out ASAP Kevin Brubaker's removable preamps didn't make it to the first NAMM show after he designed them. They "try" to get them out, that doesn't mean they do.

I have no idea what's going on between you and Ken. It's not very clear yet.

Disclaimer: For anyone who would like to see my preceding questions as disrespectful, knock yourself out. I think they're legitimate follow-ups to the info that's being laid out here. I've drawn no conclusions yet because there are still many holes.

 

[JAUQO III-X]

Hey Fella's Im not here to tell men how to respect each other but with all due respect can we stop the negative remarks and get to the original ? this is an interesting thread for many reasons,lets keep it open until and see how it all plays out.

 

[godoze]

at this point it looks like it may play out in a class action suit !

 

[Brad Johnson]

Originally posted by Ninestring

Originally posted by Brad Johnson

If the 7 string doesn't matter much to you ,and you have posted what you read in the magazine ,please keep the opinions down to a minimum

Nice try. Anyone who can read can see that my opinions aren't at the root of this issue. The items I posted from the magazine seem to be causing you a problem. According to you at least two people are lying.

Sorry Garry but as long as I'm a member what you consider my "opinion quota" is moot.

Don't kill the messenger. I have the magazine. Sorry.

when some one says the Tobias isn't a real bass-I take it literally this is the internet. His explanation make no sense to me a bout a second" real" bass

IMO

Now you're just coming off like someone who "wants" to be offended. I'm sure I can't be the only other person here who got what Peter said in his first post.

ok i thought you wrote 1986 NAMM show-1987 is it ? Read Bob Lee's Post
i started dialogue with him on a 7 string at the end of 86'. The Tobias 7 string has been placed at 1987.

I read Bob Lee's post. You didn't read mine. That's where a problem lies, not with my reading ability.

In any event you didn't limit this to 1986, you clearly said the Patterson bass was not there in 1987 either.

Is that still your contention?

People saw a good thing and wanted a piece of it ,that's why 7 string bass is where it is today.

Seriously, no offense but where is it that you see the 7 string today? What was the good thing you think people saw?

Here we are, over 15 years later, and sorry but while sevens are not as rare as they used to be, they fall far behind 4,5,6,8 and 12 string basses in popularity.

Let's be real, okay.