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The First 7 String Electric Bass

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#121
Originally posted by the ombudsman
Okay, the horns are pretty different, but I think the lower bout (with that small horn/bump in the middle) is very Smith-ish. :)
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I agree... but that's the only Smith-like thing I see.

I have a couple of really old Tobiases with omega cuts. Similar to Alembic's. OTOH the basses themself would never be confused with an Alembic... too many other things are different.

And while you weren't referring to the headstock, IMO it's pretty hard to ignore as completely devoid of Smithnicity.

;)

And we won't even mention those off-the-shelf electronics shop knobs;)

What I'm saying in a nutshell is, I wouldn't for a minute think this was a Smith. I didn't think it when I got this magazine back in 1988, I still don't think it now.
 
#122
Hey mcbassdude, when somebody says "I was the first to think of X and that's a fact," my BS alarm goes off. The real fact is, nobody really knows what anybody else is ever thinking. For all any of us know, Leo Fender got the idea for a 7-string bass while taking a crap at 3:00 AM in 1959, but chalked it up to bad Mexican (I doubt O.C. was a culinary paradise in those days) and went back to bed.

I have no beef with Garry as a musician, and I certainly have to admire anyone who can develop a unified musical concept on an extremely extended-range instrument. However, unproveable self-aggrandizement bothers me endlessly.
 
#123
Originally posted by Jared Morante
I think the problem is that respect is generally something that needs to be earned. Going around saying "I am the first.
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I can see Garry coming off as being arogant,but Garry is more frustrated that some choose to denounce his claim that he gave us the first 7 string electric Bass than he is arogant.it's like what Ken(Smith)gave us with his list of firsts and some luthiers attempted to stake claim to what he laid out to us because of his vision and ground work as a pioneer in the Bass and Luthiery world is he bragging no not at all,I support what Ken,Garry and anyone else has given us as firsts.in one of Kens ads he listed his many firsts and sometimes it just has to be done and in most instances for very good reason.am I arogant for saying I concieved and had the very first 15(3x)string electric Bass made and concieved and had the first Low C# string made to go with a Bass that I concieved that for logical reasons I call it A Subcontra Bass(a 4 string with the highest being a standard E)and I can proudly say that I have several other first pertaining to our instrument,and these claims can be backed up.am I boasting? to some yes but for me Im only sharing what I percieve as truth,and if someone did step up to the plate in an attempt to dispell my claim as being the first I to would ask the ? show me,bring this to my attention. sometimes respect is earned simply by one giving us something and never having to utter a word.but I don't know to many humans that can be so silent when it comes to what their most proud of.and I ask the ? once more what luthier gave(made)us the first 7 string Bass and who was the first Bassist to play a 7 string Bass?
 
#125
Originally posted by Peter McFerrin
Hey mcbassdude, when somebody says "I was the first to think of X and that's a fact," my BS alarm goes off. The real fact is, nobody really knows what anybody else is ever thinking. For all any of us know, Leo Fender got the idea for a 7-string bass while taking a crap at 3:00 AM in 1959, but chalked it up to bad Mexican (I doubt O.C. was a culinary paradise in those days) and went back to bed.

I have no beef with Garry as a musician, and I certainly have to admire anyone who can develop a unified musical concept on an extremely extended-range instrument. However, unproveable self-aggrandizement bothers me endlessly.
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Well, Peter, Garry has been trying to clue you into the history, timeframe and development of his first 7 string. How do you know he cannot prove he was the first to concieve and have built the 7 string. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Yeah Maybe Leo had a vision but he didn't put it into the development stage, so his vision died on the throne.
One could argue that the Wright Bros. did not invent the aeroplane, however they were the first in flight.
I personally saw Garry play a 7 string in the late 70's. I know of no one on these pages or elsewhere who has made that claim. At the time it was a freak instrument and above alot of our heads. He was essentially the first in flight with the 7 string. There is a big difference in dreaming and doing.
Maybe if you relax the BS meter for just a sec you might find you have stumbled upon a brilliant musical genius who is more than willing to share what he has learned. And he has alot to share.
 
#126
Originally posted by ProgZilla
A long time span between 89 and what appears to be a current Smith design in the other pic... It's possible some design changes have occured in that time span.


They look similar to me also..

:hmm:
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I have to admit I also thought the body looked very Smith-like when I first saw the pic.
 
#128
Originally posted by mcbassdude
How do you know he cannot prove he was the first to concieve
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Are you kidding me?

How exactly would he go about proving that he was the first person to "think of the 7-string bass"?

That's a joke!

And the fact that someone would even *claim* to be the first person to ever think something - tells me they've got some serious issues.
 
#129
Originally posted by geshel
Are you kidding me?

How exactly would he go about proving that he was the first person to "think of the 7-string bass"?

That's a joke!

And the fact that someone would even *claim* to be the first person to ever think something - tells me they've got some serious issues.
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This is basically what I've been saying.

And hell, for all I know, some 17th-century violinmaker might have built a 7-string double bass whose top exploded from too much stress.

This "who's the first" stuff is ridiculous. A 7-string electric bass guitar is not a patentable concept.
 
#130
Originally posted by Brad Johnson
And while it may certainly have been unintentional, the post came off as boastful.
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I'm assuming you mean Garry and not Peter (assuming got us into this, didn't it).

After re-reading Ninestring's/Garry's post I don't find it particularly boastful. I see it as somebody stating detailed info as he knows it in response to a question posed, without any pandering BS to those of us that are a little too sensitive to "cutting to the chase".

How was he supposed state this info that would have met with everyone's approval?

The thing on calling him out on the "no one else was thinking about a 7 back then" is just plain nitpicking IMHO.

Two of our fellow talkbassers (mcbassdude & JAUQO III-X) have confirmed much of what Garrys said by stating they were there at the times.

What's the problem?
 
#131
Originally posted by Peter McFerrin


This "who's the first" stuff is ridiculous.
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Not at all when it's the truth.

and yes Im sure that Im not the first person to have thought about a 5 string Bass and maybe not knowing that a few other people might be or have had the thought as well.

we should remember that most modern instruments derive from instruments that are 100's and even 1000's of years old.



I remember in the early 80's while first working on my Low F#and Low C#concept as I continued my theories etc.as to how strings like this can work it wasn't untill 1992 that I called Bill Dickens up and told him what I was doing with my Low F# and Low C#concept and he said to me that he had a Low F# and was blown away by my Low C# and was the first(Theres that word again)person to support my Idea,Concept,and Vision for the Low C#and in doing so he solidified my quest for the Low C# string.and again I am Not boasting simply speaking the truth.and yes whithin all realms of logic Im sure I wasn't the first Bassist to think about going lower than the Low B,because my thoughts are mine and was not in Bill Dickens mind when he was thinking about a Low F#.

I remember before I was even a member of TB some TB members laughed, made fun and attempted to discredit me because of my Low C# concept for various reasons.I was told by a member that some Kats thought I was a joke of some sort and I came on to defend myself and my Vision. Im not trying to plug anything here at all
only trying to make a point.Im sure someone out there is searching to discredit me but it's kool because my first are my first and no one can take any of them away.wait untill you guys see what Hipshot has done for me.


p.s.
A mind fact
the Idea always comes before the concept.without the Idea you cant have the concept.:D :D
 
#132
Originally posted by Brad Johnson
Smiths haven't changed all that much. It doesn't look like a 1980's Smith to me either. For example, look at how the Smith horns cut in and then taper out to the neck. The bass that JT is holding has an almost straight angle horn-to-horn across the bass of the neck body joint.

I'm pretty sure I've seen other pics of this bass and they looked even more generic and less Smith-like.

YMM continue to V.

:D :hmm:
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Sorry, I wasn't saying that it was a Smith.. Probably isn't... It definitely has a "Smithy" bouquet to it though..

:D ;)
 
#133
Originally posted by geshel
Are you kidding me?

How exactly would he go about proving that he was the first person to "think of the 7-string bass"?

That's a joke!

And the fact that someone would even *claim* to be the first person to ever think something - tells me they've got some serious issues.
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To develop the instrument, DEVELOP. That's what I said. See he actually had one in the late 70's, a physical 7 string, not just in his imagination. See the difference?
Is that a Joke? Did you get the Wright Bros. analogy?
 
#134
Originally posted by PhatBasstard
I'm assuming you mean Garry and not Peter (assuming got us into this, didn't it).

After re-reading Ninestring's/Garry's post I don't find it particularly boastful. I see it as somebody stating detailed info as he knows it in response to a question posed without any pandering BS to those of us that are a little to sensitive to "cutting to the chase".

How was he supposed state this info that would have met with everyone's approval?

The thing on calling him out on the "no one else was thinking about a 7 back then" is just plain nitpicking IMHO.

Two of our fellow talkbassers (mcbassdude & JAUQO III-X) have confirmed much of what Garrys said by stating they were there at the times.

What's the problem?
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WORD!
 
#135
Originally posted by PhatBasstard
I'm assuming you mean Garry and not Peter (assuming got us into this, didn't it).
Click to expand...

Yes, I meant Garry and I meant the thought-based fact in particular:D

After re-reading Ninestring's/Garry's post I don't find it particularly boastful. I see it as somebody stating detailed info as he knows it in response to a question posed without any pandering BS to those of us that are a little to sensitive to "cutting to the chase".

How was he supposed state this info that would have met with everyone's approval?
Click to expand...

Losing the "thought" stuff would be a good start.

The thing on calling him out on the "no one else was thinking about a 7 back then" is just plain nitpicking IMHO.
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Why? Is it true beyond a shadow of a doubt? Did you notice that issue is not being taken with him having the first one built or using it the longest. Probably because those sound like they could have merit. The first thinker stuff is just silly. How would he know this?

Two of our fellow talkbassers (mcbassdude & JAUQO III-X) have confirmed much of what Garrys said by stating they were there at the times.
Click to expand...

Were they there when he first thought of it?

What's the problem?
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PB, it's obvious that even though this has been explained eight ways to Sunday some people just refuse to get it. That's cool.

At this point I don't expect your or McBD to read this as it appears to be written:

"Beyond asking who made the first 7 string bass,it would be interesting to ask "Who thought of the 7 string bass?" and "Who is the first 7 string bassist? " and " Who has been playing 7 string bass the longest? The answer to all three questions is me".

While you and McBD apparently have no issue with the FACT that Garry was the FIRST PERSON to T-H-I-N-K of a seven string, others do. Personally I don't care but c'mon... I arguably was the first to think of the pneumatic bass with hydraulic preamp. If it's ever actually realized will this post be enough to garner me sole credit? I hope.

Nobody is dissing Garry in this thread, he did however say something that's a bit much to take. Are you saying you can't see that side of this?

Maybe if Garry would stick to accurate facts...



Just a thought;)

Unfortunately the people who are pointing out what he probably shouldn't have said are now the villains. Why. Garry said it, they didn't.

WORD TO YOUR MOTHER!!
 
#136
Originally posted by JAUQO III-X
Not at all when it's the truth.

and yes Im sure that Im not the first person to have thought about a 5 string Bass and maybe not knowing that a few other people might be or have had the thought as well.

we should remember that most modern instruments derive from instruments that are 100's and even 1000's of years old.



I remember in the early 80's while first working on my Low F#and Low C#concept as I continued my theories etc.as to how strings like this can work it wasn't untill 1992 that I called Bill Dickens up and told him what I was doing with my Low F# and Low C#concept and he said to me that he had a Low F# and was blown away by my Low C# and was the first(Theres that word again)person to support my Idea,Concept,and Vision for the Low C#and in doing so he solidified my quest for the Low C# string.and again I am Not boasting simply speaking the truth.and yes whithin all realms of logic Im sure I wasn't the first Bassist to think about going lower than the Low B,because my thoughts are mine and was not in Bill Dickens mind when he was thinking about a Low F#.

I remember before I was even a member of TB some TB members laughed, made fun and attempted to discredit me because of my Low C# concept for various reasons.I was told by a member that some Kats thought I was a joke of some sort and I came on to defend myself and my Vision. Im not trying to plug anything here at all
only trying to make a point.Im sure someone out there is searching to discredit me but it's kool because my first are my first and no one can take any of them away.wait untill you guys see what Hipshot has done for me.


p.s.
A mind fact
the Idea always comes before the concept.without the Idea you cant have the concept.:D :D
Click to expand...

Let's focus on the single issue that was brought up by some and ignored by others. Here it is in a plain question...



Was Garry the first person to THINK of a seven string bass?

That's the issue, nothing else. Thoughts on this specific issue?
 
#137
Originally posted by mcbassdude
Well, Peter, Garry has been trying to clue you into the history, timeframe and development of his first 7 string. How do you know he cannot prove he was the first to concieve and have built the 7 string. Do you have evidence to the contrary? Yeah Maybe Leo had a vision but he didn't put it into the development stage, so his vision died on the throne.
One could argue that the Wright Bros. did not invent the aeroplane, however they were the first in flight.
I personally saw Garry play a 7 string in the late 70's. I know of no one on these pages or elsewhere who has made that claim. At the time it was a freak instrument and above alot of our heads. He was essentially the first in flight with the 7 string. There is a big difference in dreaming and doing.
Maybe if you relax the BS meter for just a sec you might find you have stumbled upon a brilliant musical genius who is more than willing to share what he has learned. And he has alot to share.
Click to expand...

Let's fix your analogy;)

If the Wright Bros. claimed to be the first men to think of flight you'd have something similar to what Garry has done.
 
#140
Originally posted by geshel
Are you kidding me?

How exactly would he go about proving that he was the first person to "think of the 7-string bass"?

That's a joke!

And the fact that someone would even *claim* to be the first person to ever think something - tells me they've got some serious issues.
Click to expand...

No, I believe he is dead serious.
 
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