The first fretless... Bill Wyman?

[silky smoove]

I just read on Bill Wyman's Wikipedia page that he's credited as being the inventor of the fretless electric bass. The page says that he defretted one of his early basses and this was the first fretless electric bass guitar.

Is this accurate? I don't have a bias either way as I'm not really a Rolling Stones guy or a fretless guy, its just that its a factoid I've never heard thrown around TB, which is surprising.

 

[Darkstrike]

Its been discussed in the past, to no concrete answer.

I know he defretted his bass while he was in the band he was in pre-Rolling Stones, The Cliftons, in 1959, as the Wiki says.

But there were other bassists who defretted their basses at the time, no one knows who was first though.

All the can say was he was "one" of the first, and the most well known at that.

 

[Thornton Davis]

Here's Bill with his first bass. He built it himself in early 1960 and used it during the first couple of years with the Stones before switching to his Framus Star Bass in 1963.

He continued to use his home made bass on many Stone's recordings for many more years cause he said it gave him "the perfect sound."

The neck had been defretted by someone prior to Bill acquiring it, according to Bill.

TD

 

[design]

Many sources claim that Bill Wyman's first fretless bass was 'Japanese' or 'home made', amongst other misinformation or forgetfullness. More recent research says that it was originally a 1959 Dallas Tuxedo bass, made in the UK by the Dallas Arbiter company.

Bill bought it second hand, and took this light-weight, solid-body, single pick-up, short-scale instrument and heavily modified it by removing the frets (some sources say the frets had already been removed), re-shaping the body (adding an upper cutaway, shortening the body behind the bridge, narrowing it under the two control knobs, and moving the output socket), painting it red, and making a black scratch-plate.

He played this bass in The Cliftons before he joined the Rolling Stones. Later he added a second pickup near the bridge, added a third control knob, painted it black, and made a red scratch-plate. In 2011 the UK company 'The Bass Centre' issued their own fretted version for sale, called the 'Wyman Bass', based on the two-pick up fretless version. Here are some pictures!

Dallas Tuxedo bass

Bill's customised Dallas Tuxedo bass in it's single pick-up configuration, the body painted red.

The same bass in the later two pick-up configuration, with the body painted black.

Early photo of Bill playing the customised bass, red body.

2011 'Wyman Bass' by The Bass Centre, UK.

 

[JimmyM]

He may not have been the first fretless player ever but he's certainly the first well known fretless player.

 

[Watchootognbout]

And the tune that was recorded with it was "Paint It Black"

 

[P. Aaron]

A Guitar Player interview with Wyman published as Some Girls was released had Bill stating that he pulled the frets out because they buzzed horribly. He also spoke of the ban saw mods to the body, lacquering up the neck & repainting it. Mick & Keith always chided Bill to "Get a P-Bass!" (heh), but Wyman recorded with that bass until switching to the Travis Bean bass on Some Girls. Wyman preferred it because of his "small hands" and in the GP interview made a plea to bass makers to consider building more short-scale models.

 

[design]

@gebass6 thanks for the close up photo of the fretboard! Frets ripped out!

 

[bobyoung53]

A Guitar Player interview with Wyman published as Some Girls was released had Bill stating that he pulled the frets out because they buzzed horribly. He also spoke of the ban saw mods to the body, lacquering up the neck & repainting it. Mick & Keith always chided Bill to "Get a P-Bass!" (heh), but Wyman recorded with that bass until switching to the Travis Bean bass on Some Girls. Wyman preferred it because of his "small hands" and in the GP interview made a plea to bass makers to consider building more short-scale models.

Yes, Bill has always said he knew a Fender Precision bass would sound great, (full name put in for the youngsters here who think a P bass is anything with a split pickup) but he couldn't play them because they were just too big.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

I just got one of these off of ebay! It was at a really good price with no offers, as the auction came close to ending I made an offer on it if it didn't sell... It didn't, I did and they accepted.

Hopefully I will have it in my hands in a couple days.

I'm thinking about ripping the frets out when I get it...


Moonshine

 

[design]

I'm thinking about ripping the frets out when I get it...

Do it, Man! DO IT!

(Actually, would like hear a sound clip before and after fret removal. Stones!).

 

[moonshinegtrs]

It's here...

Moonshine.

 

[JKos]

inventor of the fretless electric bass

I'm guessing this means of the non-upright variety. Because electric upright basses were around well before Wyman.

-John

 

[Axstar]

Even if Wyman did invent it, or stumble upon it, it doesn't really characterise his sound. I'm not a big fan of his sound, especially on early cuts, as it is a sort of rubbery, rumbly thing that sits in the back of the mix. I think you have to give Jaco credit for ultimately taking the fretless bass further than simply being a fretted bass that has been inconvenienced in some way.

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Even if Wyman did invent it, or stumble upon it, it doesn't really characterise his sound. I'm not a big fan of his sound, especially on early cuts, as it is a sort of rubbery, rumbly thing that sits in the back of the mix. I think you have to give Jaco credit for ultimately taking the fretless bass further than simply being a fretted bass that has been inconvenienced in some way.

I dig Wyman's sound (& Keith's or whoever played whatever at the time), early and later...

He may have pulled out the frets but he played it like a fretted/upright bass (unlike Jaco who revolutionized the sound of the fretless bass).

I have a mahogany Fender Precision Lyte; someone pulled the frets and never bothered to replaced them. It is a magic bass, I have played it out and nobody ever noticed it was fretless (unless I played it like a fretless).

My band has recently added "the Spider & the Fly" (with me singing), I've done it before.

It's a great representation of the sound of this bass.


Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Here's the bass in all of it's glory...

It is in virtually unplayed condition, I'm guessing these are the original strings. No scratches anywhere. It came with the original soft case again in perfect condition.

Not bad for $250 shipped.

It's set up decent, neck is very straight and action is medium/low. It's an odd combination of pickups but it works. Easy playing with a decent sound. It really needs a set of dead flatwounds...

Any idea of what Bill was using on this bass?

Pics:

Once I get the right strings on it I will record a sound clip.

If I pull the frets (most likely) I will record a second sound clip for comparison.


Moonshine

 

[JRA]

Is this accurate?

stranger things have happened. i had a real hard time accepting that my uncle invented pants.

 

[JimmyM]

It really needs a set of dead flatwounds...

Any idea of what Bill was using on this bass?

Dead flatwounds?



I've been looking at pics of his Dallas bass, and it appears to have different strings on it at different times, and I really don't think he cared too much as long as it had flats. And I don't know who strung it up for him in this pic, but whoever did it needs a remedial course in stringing a bass

 

[moonshinegtrs]

Dead flatwounds?



I've been looking at pics of his Dallas bass, and it appears to have different strings on it at different times, and I really don't think he cared too much as long as it had flats. And I don't know who strung it up for him in this pic, but whoever did it needs a remedial course in stringing a bass

Moonshine

 

[moonshinegtrs]

honestly it may be cool to remove the bridge pickup and return it to the first rendition...

Just thinking (too much ).


Moonshine