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The Flat EQ Society

You can call it the Society of Deluded Bass Players. :D
The knob position does not necessarily coincide with flat response. It may coincide with flat for that passband, it may not. Even if all do the amp is probably still not flat, due to voicing of the pre-amp. And speakers are anything but flat. Neither is your bass, for that matter.
If knobs weren't meant to be used they wouldn't be there at all.

The whole point about flat-earthers is that you can never win an argument with well reasoned logic.

You, sir, are therefore wrong.
 
Some friends and I jam at a rental studio that comes with a different backline and PA in each of the 8 studios. Some of the rooms are bigger and better insulated.

I use a 30 foot cord so I can stand as far way from the amps as possible. Sometimes I stand 10 feet, sometimes, about 18 feet. Sometimes in front but on the opposite side of the bass rig due to space limitations.

I take about 30 seconds to set the amp with more volume, bass, mids, treble than I probably would need. Who knows the eq. curve. Don't care.

I turn the volume down by about 1/2 on my bass (Ibanez Musian p/j with old school dead half-rounds) and use the 3 band active eq. to get approximately the tone I want...all by ear. I also can use fingers or pick and alternate between them as necessary.

Last time we jammed, I got to use an Ampeg SS head and an Hughes Keltner 8x10. Started out finger plucking. Just wasn't doing it for me. Ended up picking, palm muting most of the time to cut the overtones/ringing with a medium touch. Had to turn the bass's eq mids up, treble down and adjusted the bass as needed (and even that changed depending on which song we were doing). Also used the blend to get mostly the P pickup.

IMO, it's all about doing what's necessary to get a tone the fits both the band/music and room/venue. Always complements from the guys. YMMV.
 
I set it to where it sounds good to me. I adjust my playing technique and bass preamp more, due to the fact that 10 ft. from my rig sounds way different than right up on it where my knobs are. Rarely does my EQ on my amp sit in the same place from show to show as I tweak a little to adjust for the room. I am also never too proud to let my band mates or sound guy give me advice if they hear something I don't. Do what feels/sounds good to you... Isn't that what music is all about?
 
Consider me part of the "Flat EQ Society".

I have four different amps and keep all the knobs centered. The only one I might use is the bass and that would be to cut it if the room is very boomy.

If I need to use a lot of eq to get a sound I like, I figure it's not an amp for me and move on. I try for a combination of bass + amp + speaker cabinet who's sound I like without using any eq.
 
BTW, if you want to know what something closer to "flat" is, and I use that term to describe a preamp/amp combination that has the same or very similar output frequency characterstics to the signal presented at the input, plug your bass into the FX receive or power amp input (if your bass is active and can drive the input...I think most active basses can now). I do that with my Wlater Woods. I love the amp, but the preamp doesn't work for me. Fortunately, his FX receive has a 1M impedance and has a gain control, so a passive bass can even be plugged in. His preamp is not flat when the knobs are centered. I personally build everything to be flat when the pot is at the detent...within the mechanical tolerance of the pot.
 
thepontif said:
Fortunately, his FX receive has a 1M impedance and has a gain control, so a passive bass can even be plugged in.

Going a bit off topic here, but can anyone suggest a way to do this with an effects return that has the wrong impedance? Is there an adapter that will do it? I sometimes do this with a compressor pedal to give me the right impedance, but it would be nice to be able to go straight in.
 
ya see on my amp, Mesa Bass 400, flat on the knobs is not flat. To be flat I need to push in all the knobs if any are pulled out (mesa loves to use those push-pull switches on their knobs). Then I dime the mid because it's cut only, and set the treble and bass for about 2.5. The first time I did that I thought the amp sounded pretty good flat once you cranked up the master. Then I tred dialing back the master and cranking up the gain.
Now I start with my EQ flat most of the time and dial back some mid or bass (or dial up the treble) depending on the room. Of course with a 3 band EQ on my stingray/sterling I can vary my tone quite a bit without touching my amp.
 
Don't assume that because the mids are passive, flat is all the way dimed.

This was discussed at length in the Walkabout thread. That head's mids are naturally forward. On that head, the closest you can get the mids to true flat is with the mid knob around 10:00.
 
I love this thread. I think it's pretty hilarious. Lots of great players and tone-masters disagreeing with one another. Thank GOD!

I can only be an expert in my own story. In the 37 years since I made a living playing 5 or 6 nights a week so much has changed I can't even figure out a place to begin to try to catch up. This thread shows I was worried about not too much.

Since I've come to TB it seems that a good 70% of the commentary, always someplace in the thread, is all about "my tone" or "the tone". I have almost never before seen so much navel-gazing over something so ephemeral as the fleeting tone of a single instrument.

You can twist your knobs, you can wind your strings, you can pot your pups, and you can stomp your pedals, but at the end of the day it comes down to a single value - THE MUSIC YOU MAKE!

I'm not immune to nor totally lacking in understanding of the need to have a particular sound which is appropriate for the music I am a part of the making of. Certainly some styles demand a sound grossly different than another. You're not likely going to hear Chris Squire tone playing behind Tony Bennett for a whole night. I get that. Still, how big of a difference will it make to the music if three knobs are turned 5mm different from one to the next if the player has the groove and good musical sense to fit in while doing the job?

What I'm saying is "my tone" is something that sounds good in the moment, something that's close enough to make me feel like I'm making music and not noise. Get set up, check the balances across the stand. Hmm... I think a bit more X might be good. Twist the knob, try again, maybe twist again and go with it. Yep. That works.

Every room is different. Half-full or full makes a difference, too. Maybe, if we can get those people at the table in the middle on the right to stop talking to each other so much and laughing, they might hear what a tonal master I am. Oh, wait. They don't give a crap. They came to have fun.

Did you ever play for an audience which was as dead as last weeks fish catch? I don't care what your sound is, your going to hate the music you played that night.

Did the people dance? Did they take the time to clap a few times? Did I feel the energy of playing great music with great players? Were we deeply in the groove together? That's what makes music special to me, not how finely honed "my glorious supercalifragilisticexpialidocious tone" is.

Other comments come to mind in my little rant, but I think I'll leave it at that. You get the picture. Close to something good is good enough for me if the music stands on its own. Music is about heart and soul. I don't care what it sounds like if that isn't there.

:hiding:

iJazz - Just a geezer blowing wind.
 
Here's the EQ on my GK400rb
 

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Well, personally, I play better, get in the groove better, hit the right notes more, and generally make better music (and appearance) when my tone sounds good to me and when I can hear it well---SOOOO, being a bit picky with the knobs and all IS important---to me. It just so happens that knobs at or near noon does the trick for me.
 
I always stood by the idea that getting good gear - basses, amps, cabs, pedals, and all - were to satisfy the player to a point that he or she can play confidently. I was always worried about my tone when I had a smaller rig and it made me less confident and therefore ended with me having bad stage presence. Most people in the audience don't care about the tone (especially after a few drinks), they just want to hear everything enough where they can enjoy it. And for most music I've played, the more intelligible the notes everyone is playing in the band, the better. Because there will be musicians in the crowd that will be disgusted by can of bees guitars and super woofy basses with no attack, you still have to account for tone. Playing is of course the most important to an audience, but tone is still very important
 
iJazz, I think what you say is right on.

In some ways, I think a lot of people (myself included) worry too much about the right bass, the right tone, the right amp, the right pedals... when we really need to think about the right note, the right feeling ... and the right place for silence.

This is true, imo too, but you can't separate the feel from the sound. Feel is really all about sound. Although, it does get taken to a point of splitting hairs that nobody cares about.

Still, no excuse to not strive for excellence as long as you don't go gray over it.
 
With all deference to your professional accomplishments, by which I am very well overshadowed, Mr. Pope:

Personally, most of the time, I use almost no EQ at all.

I find this an amazing statement from a man who designs and builds EQ/pre-amps. I applaud you in your honesty!

This is true, imo too, but you can't separate the feel from the sound. Feel is really all about sound.

Exactly wrong and exactly right at the same time. (For me paradox is the universal constant attached to all value. Sorry if that's a bit heady for some.)

Sound affects feel, there is no doubt, but feel transcends particular sound, IMHO. It is the X factor which cannot be denied nor explained. It is what makes a musician great, regardless of the particular instrument his greatness is expressed through. Since we are speaking of music OF COURSE there must be sound (and silence, too, just to add to that paradox) present for the feel any particular great musician might impart as his/her personal greatness. However, the greatness they have shines through even in the case of expression through the poorest of instruments. (We will for the moment forgo conversations about how much the individual affects tone of an individual instrument and assume that the full potential tonality a particular type of instrument may produce is not available from all samples of that type of instrument.)

A good 50 years ago one of Dad's friends was a Gibson (or maybe Gretsch) endorser. He and his wife traveled as a lounge duo across the country (The Lemonaides. Anybody know them? If so PM me. I'd love to know what happened to the cocktail drum Dad built for her.). When they were in town they came to our house for drinks before Mom & Dad went to see them perform. I wanted to hear him play. There was a real piece of crap guitar in the house, but he took the challenge of it and just threw down some amazing music. Tonally? Horrible might be generous given the guitar in his hands. Feel? In spades.

Take a theoretical example. Do you really think the sound of Elvin Jones tapping a tin box could deny the feel he used to create musical history?

Although, it does get taken to a point of splitting hairs that nobody cares about.

And that is precisely my point. Quite honestly, I think it may for some become as much ego as it is genuine expression. "This is 'MY' tone!"

:hiding:

For me, the music always comes first. That's why audiophile quality speaker systems are lost on me. If I can hear the music enough to feel it, well that's enough for me. It isn't that I don't care about sound quality at all. Certainly I like a decent sounding speaker set, but decent is enough to feel the music and that's what I seek.

I come from a different era when monitors on stage were almost unheard of and IEMs were, AFAIK, actually unheard of. I was lucky to be able to hear the sax at the opposite end of the horn line, let alone his finest nuances, when everyone was blowing. We still kicked butt. We knew what feel we were playing to.

Still, no excuse to not strive for excellence as long as you don't go gray over it.

I will never be the one to say that one's best effort should not be put forth. I will say, however, that just as Persig found, at some point one must reach the point of saying good enough lest it drive him over the edge. As you say, don't go gray over it.

When it comes to tonal quality, for many it seems the splitting of hairs becomes the object more than great music. That's where I'll get off the bus, thank you.

iJazz - Let's twist up some greatness has several meanings. :smug: