The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[chadhargis]

Sounds great!

I should have recorded it with just the preamp, but I wasn't thinking. The compressor, even using very low compression, beefs up the sound quite a bit. I never turn off my compressor. That FEA comp is just really good. Thanks for reviewing it and causing me to buy it.

 

[JKos]

here is absolutely no way to recreate the IR effect with EQ

There's more to an IR than just EQ. There is a time based element, too. Real captured IRs of speaker cabs have a time element going on. There is more complexity to a speaker cab in an environment with certain micing than just EQ.

- John

 

[alecvbass]

After 2h of scrolling I finally made it to the end!

I gotta say this thread really makes me want to buy the SLO MKIIIs, especially since I can have one bought directly in Russia (~325 USD new).

To all the guys that have it - how does the cab emu section sound? I'm skeptical about this since the Two Notes Torpedo CAB M I have has some inherent hiss and some (albeit small) latency that makes running two signals to FOH impossible.
I also had the DSM OCSD (twice too) and while it is a great pedal, I couldn't get along with it so I sold it.

Also curious about what everyone here uses for overdrive and octave.

 

[SteveC]

What interface(s) do you guys use? I have a many years old Apogee that's just a 1/4" in and a USB out with a level control on the side. Seems to work ok. Just curious.

 

[Lowendtech]

What interface(s) do you guys use? I have a many years old Apogee that's just a 1/4" in and a USB out with a level control on the side. Seems to work ok. Just curious.

Focusrite Scarlett 2i2. But it's new so I don't have a lot of experience with it yet.

 

[jimfist]

There's more to an IR than just EQ. There is a time based element, too. Real captured IRs of speaker cabs have a time element going on. There is more complexity to a speaker cab in an environment with certain micing than just EQ.

- John

Yes. Depending on what you're looking for. If the IR is capturing the speaker EQ fingerprint only, then the msec duration of the IR doesn't need to be very long at all (20msec, though there's some heated discussion about this needing to be longer). Beyond that, you start introducing early reflections into the IR, and when you get into the 100s of msec, you're picking up environment reverberation.

There's been an awful lot of discussion about IR capture methods on the guitar amp modeling forums, especially with respect to what constitutes a truly neutral IR of a speaker that is reflection free. Most IR loading devices have a fixed maximum time (in msec) for IR length playback, so even if you load an IR that is 200msec long, it will be truncated to the device's maximum IR playback length. In many devices, this is 20 - 40 msec. Fractal Audio makes gear that plays back IRs of 20, 40, and 170 msec. Not many devices can do this as it is processor intensive.

 

[fivestringgecko]

I have a brand new Trickfish Minnow that was purchased for backup and never out of box u til today to test. Save someone huge over new price if interested. Message me only if serious as I have it for sale in classifieds and other places.
View attachment 3806064

If only I could justify a purchase at the moment... That one's on my short list. :/

5sg.

 

[jimfist]

After 2h of scrolling I finally made it to the end!

I gotta say this thread really makes me want to buy the SLO MKIIIs, especially since I can have one bought directly in Russia (~325 USD new).

To all the guys that have it - how does the cab emu section sound? I'm skeptical about this since the Two Notes Torpedo CAB M I have has some inherent hiss and some (albeit small) latency that makes running two signals to FOH impossible.
I also had the DSM OCSD (twice too) and while it is a great pedal, I couldn't get along with it so I sold it.

Also curious about what everyone here uses for overdrive and octave.

Running two feeds, a true DRY DI bass feed along with a mic'd cabinet OR a digital IR cab sim is problematic due to: A) with a close mic'd cabinet, there is micro delay (<1msec) due to the distance of the microphone from the speaker; B) with a digital IR, inherent latency (1msec-4msec or more depending on the IR loader used) due to processing computations. In either case, you'd need to have a mixing console with a micro delay (or phase reversal switch) on the dry DI channel so that you don't have phase/comb filtering problems.

However, if you're using a modern digital multi-effect, you avoid this problem by either: 1) keeping all of your blended parallel splits (dry + IR-treated) within the modeler, and recombining them into a SINGLE output; 2) send your dry DI feed from a discrete output of the modeler that has time compensation (by design), so is already aligned with the IR-treated (discrete, from a different output of the modeler) feed.

Devices like the Line 6 Helix/Stomp do this, however, it forces you to run your dry DI bass feed through an A/D-D/A conversion vs. a true dry DI which stays in the analog domain. This can bother purists.

 

[fivestringgecko]

The A/B channel split lets you keep a dry signal that you can blend with your dirt > EQ > octave > IR > etc. I've been experimenting with that setup. Currently running Becos Stella > Lightning Boy Nuvison > HX Stomp. The Stella and Nuvision are my A channel (foundation tone) and the B channel is my IR's (currently the Orange AD 200B + 8x10) and other FX. I blend them into an LA-2A comp block (and maybe a HPF/LPF block) at the end of the chain and boom...thick and lovely.

If one really wanted to get into the weeds with multiple preamps, Line 6 also just added the new Dynamic Split function, which routes the signal path automatically based on volume/threshold.

The short version is that a person could have a clean path... bass > [stomp path A] > Noble for example... and dynamically add in a second preamp in real time on the fly by putting preamp 2 in Path B. The Dynamic Split automatically switches over to the second path, adding in the dirty preamp just by digging in/turning up volume/using a boost/etc, before heading to the output > Noble.

Another idea is that you could assign a volume boost to Path B, and when you reach that input threshold, Path B kicks in and hits the rest of the signal chain harder.

The second preamp (noted by the FX Loop block) could be arranged anywhere in your chain, and before/after any effects you want to influence their sound....

Just a few of the many possibilities!

5sg.

 

[jimfist]

Does Line 6/Helix also have a pitch-based modifier, so that the frequency of the note played influences the amount of blended effect? I know that Fractal Audio has this feature (among a ton of others). These creative options are great, and I loved spending time doing this sort of thing (though I'm going the opposite direction these days). But it does sort of run contrary to the idea of finding the one or two pieces of gear that have that "it" factor, and keeping things simple. I appreciate that, too.

 

[monsterthompson]

Just announced - Hilbish Sol Invictus.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[SteveC]

This just all went over my head...

 

[jacoby75]

Just announced - Hilbish Sol Invictus.
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Mmmm. Doomy.

 

[Lowendtech]

This just all went over my head...

I'm not getting on the IR wagon. I'm old school. Give me tubes, transformers, Mosfets, Op amps, wires and I'll be fine sorting it out myself.
Kudos to those going down that hole but it ain't for me. I think. For now.

 

[fivestringgecko]

Does Line 6/Helix also have a pitch-based modifier, so that the frequency of the note played influences the amount of blended effect? I know that Fractal Audio has this feature (among a ton of others). These creative options are great, and I loved spending time doing this sort of thing (though I'm going the opposite direction these days). But it does sort of run contrary to the idea of finding the one or two pieces of gear that have that "it" factor, and keeping things simple. I appreciate that, too.

Not if I'm reading your message correctly... As in, lower notes on the neck go to one path, and higher notes go to the other? Unfortunately not. That'd be a pretty creative trick though. The "money frets" play normally, but then anything above the 12th fret goes to path B to run through an octaver... I didn't know I wanted that until I read your post. lol

5sg.

 

[jimfist]

Not if I'm reading your message correctly... As in, lower notes on the neck go to one path, and higher notes go to the other? Unfortunately not. That'd be a pretty creative trick though. The "money frets" play normally, but then anything above the 12th fret goes to path B to run through an octaver... I didn't know I wanted that until I read your post. lol

5sg.

Yes, neat trick indeed. Not switching paths, though, just mix/blend amount. I used to use it to add delay and reverb in large amounts when playing above the twelfth fret, but could quickly bang dry low notes without having to constantly switch off the effects.

Apologies for the pure tone preamp/DI derail. I'll stop now.

 

[monsterthompson]

Mmmm. Doomy.

Yeah. Their Beta Pre "clean" bass demo isn't terribly clean, so it's tough to know what this will do. It's based on the same design. The price isn't bad and it can go DI to a board or drive a power amp.

 

[Low Down Brown]

The second preamp (noted by the FX Loop block) could be arranged anywhere in your chain, and before/after any effects you want to influence their sound....

Just a few of the many possibilities!

That is an interesting idea. I haven't begun tinkering with that Dyn. Split. yet because I just updated my Stomp, but that makes me want to try the Barber Linden in the FX loop and see what that adds to the sound when I combine everything at the end.

These creative options are great, and I loved spending time doing this sort of thing (though I'm going the opposite direction these days). But it does sort of run contrary to the idea of finding the one or two pieces of gear that have that "it" factor, and keeping things simple. I appreciate that, too.

I can definitely appreciate the simplicity factor. That's one of the main reasons I chose the HX Stomp. My gig board usually consists of the Markbass Compressore > an EQ/Pre (optional) > HX Stomp > Quilter BB800. I have a single power supply for all my pedals...so two plugs, a Speakon connection to the cab, and an XLR out to FOH and I'm done

Since we're talking about the Stomp, this thread has me very curious about the Night Owl Edison. I'd really like to hear one of those in front of the Stomp and find out just what it could add to it. Something tells me I would enjoy it....

 

[chadhargis]

So with such a big fat bottom end, I thought maybe the Oracle might be muddy when you feed it the low notes.

NOPE!

Sounds huge!

This clip is the same settings as the last one. No EQ tweaks or anything. I am using an active 5 string, but the EQ is set flat.

I'm really starting to bond with the Oracle. Listen to the low Db and D. I'm also playing the E on the 5th fret of the B string. Just clear and clean. This isn't my Dingwall either. It's a Warmoth parts bass I built in my basement. 34" scale.

Dropbox - Oracle Demo - Oh Girl - 4:28:20, 6.49 PM.wav - Simplify your life

 

[Low Down Brown]

So with such a big fat bottom end, I thought maybe the Oracle might be muddy when you feed it the low notes.

NOPE!

Sounds huge!

This clip is the same settings as the last one. No EQ tweaks or anything. I am using an active 5 string, but the EQ is set flat.

I'm really starting to bond with the Oracle. Listen to the low Db and D. I'm also playing the E on the 5th fret of the B string. Just clear and clean. This isn't my Dingwall either. It's a Warmoth parts bass I built in my basement. 34" scale.

Dropbox - Oracle Demo - Oh Girl - 4:28:20, 6.49 PM.wav - Simplify your life

To quote Justin Wilson - "Whoooooweeee...don't dat nice?!"