The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[kevk]

.......Regarding the Noble Pre (and also the Jule Monique tbh) they just seem ridiculously over priced to me, and I can't justify it. I had the opportunity to buy both these units 2nd hand here in Australia and I turned it down. I can,t imagine there are any components or a crazy amount of extra labor that elevate the price by that much compared to an Oracle and a host of other Preamps.

Stepping down off my soap box now...

I still have my Jule Monique Bamboo, purchased several years ago (before many of these currently discussed tube preamps existed...) It’s large, but a beautiful sounding tube pre, with lots of gain options, including adjustable DI output signal level, which is actually quite handy gigging.

Really doesn’t need much else tone-wise, but a hpf is important for me in the chain. I usually bring a Nano board along, for wireless, comp, and hpf. I had Jule finish the bamboo in black (vs the usual natural)...

hmmm...need to try my LA-1A in front...that might be epic.

 

[uwrossl]

@uwrossl

I now have the stock JJ ECC83 tube, the Mullard, and the Genalex Gold Lion. Here are my quick thoughts.

To me, the "bitiest" (upper mid/treble response) of the three is the JJ and the warmest/smoothest is the Gold Lion.

The Mullard is kind of in between to me, however, I also noticed a bit of AC hum coming from the Mullard. Not sure if that is a characteristic of the tube or just something going on with my tube specifically. I'm going to email TubeDepot and ask them. The Mullard sounds really good though and the hum is probably lost in a mix, but, I did notice it through IEMs, so YMMV. Hopefully it is just my tube and not a common characteristic.

All three sound fantastic though!

One day I will get separate sound samples of all three tubes in the Oracle going through the S1 (flat and adjusted).

View attachment 3899770

That's great. Thx for that update. I can't stop playing through mine and can't imagine a situation where wouldn't have it on.

I'm anxious to do some tube rolling myself. For the JJ did you find that the upper mid/treble response translated to more drive in terms of bite or just strictly a difference in frequency? I love the top end clarity so far with the JJ. The Gold Lion sounds like it's up my alley. I get plenty of natural drive already with my set up so I'm looking for something to be as clear and warm as possible from the Oracle while maintaining the bloom and pillowy tube response. Lmk what you hear from TubeDepot on the Mullard. I'm going to do some research this weekend and probably pick up a Gold Lion to test as well as a wild card to throw in the mix.

 

[MascisMan]

That's great. Thx for that update. I can't stop playing through mine and can't imagine a situation where wouldn't have it on.

I'm anxious to do some tube rolling myself. For the JJ did you find that the upper mid/treble response translated to more drive in terms of bite or just strictly a difference in frequency? I love the top end clarity so far with the JJ. The Gold Lion sounds like it's up my alley. I get plenty of natural drive already with my set up so I'm looking for something to be as clear and warm as possible from the Oracle while maintaining the bloom and pillowy tube response. Lmk what you hear from TubeDepot on the Mullard. I'm going to do some research this weekend and probably pick up a Gold Lion to test as well as a wild card to throw in the mix.

I'll have to revisit all three and capture a few tracks. I don't recall significant gain (drive) differences between the three but will have to check.

The Mullard sounds great and I might be crowing too much on the noise, though it is there even if just a small amount. The JJ and Genalex are silent at idle.

 

[uwrossl]

the Genalex Gold Lion

Is this the Genalex you got?

Genalex - Gold Lion B759 / ECC83 / 12AX7 Preamp Vacuum Tube

 

[MascisMan]

Is this the Genalex you got?

Genalex - Gold Lion B759 / ECC83 / 12AX7 Preamp Vacuum Tube

Yep thats the one. I also opted for the "Low Noise/Harmonics" option. For the record I also did with the Mullard which makes me think the AC hum is just a characteristic. In fact if you compare the Genalex to the Mullard on the TD site, the Mullard does show as noisier using their charts.

I could easily see myself swapping tubes between the two bands I'm playing in. JJ/Mullard with my JBass/Rounds for Worship (modern pop/rock songs) and Gold Lion with my PBass/Flats for my Americana/Classic Rock band.

Realistically though any of the tubes with either bass would be great for either scenario.

 

[uwrossl]

Gold Lion with my PBass/Flats for my Americana/Classic Rock band.

That's all I needed to hear. P Bass and flats for blues and soul right here these days.

 

[MascisMan]

That's all I needed to hear. P Bass and flats for blues and soul right here these days.

Can a bass sound be too warm? Not sure, but it is FAT

 

[chadhargis]

Yep thats the one. I also opted for the "Low Noise/Harmonics" option. For the record I also did with the Mullard which makes me think the AC hum is just a characteristic. In fact if you compare the Genalex to the Mullard on the TD site, the Mullard does show as noisier using their charts.

I could easily see myself swapping tubes between the two bands I'm playing in. JJ/Mullard with my JBass/Rounds for Worship (modern pop/rock songs) and Gold Lion with my PBass/Flats for my Americana/Classic Rock band.

Realistically though any of the tubes with either bass would be great for either scenario.

I’m running the Mullard in my Oracle and it’s dead quiet. Also ran the Mullard in my SLO and it was great there too.

 

[MascisMan]

I’m running the Mullard in my Oracle and it’s dead quiet. Also ran the Mullard in my SLO and it was great there too.

Ok cool, thats good news. I like the Mullard a lot..

Maybe TD will let me swap.

 

[Rocksolid]

I still have my Jule Monique Bamboo, purchased several years ago (before many of these currently discussed tube preamps existed...) It’s large, but a beautiful sounding tube pre, with lots of gain options, including adjustable DI output signal level, which is actually quite handy gigging.

Really doesn’t need much else tone-wise, but a hpf is important for me in the chain. I usually bring a Nano board along, for wireless, comp, and hpf. I had Jule finish the bamboo in black (vs the usual natural)...View attachment 3899774
hmmm...need to try my LA-1A in front...that might be epic.

Despite my rant about price - that's an extremely sexy piece of gear.

 

[kevk]

Despite my rant about price - that's an extremely sexy piece of gear.

Thx!

You have a valid rant concern...not sure I’d spring for one today, given all the current options. It was paid for (cried once) a long time ago, so might as well keep enjoying it’s tone goodness. Nice, high quality piece of kit for sure!

 

[Btbp]

I've never tried the LWDI but looks promising

+1 looks good

 

[sifrancis]

The Jule Monique is a very special preamp for sure - I've had mine for 6 years now, and it has proven itself time and time again, surviving the rigours of touring and the scrutiny of studio sessions.
However if I were in the market for a preamp again now, I would certainly be put off by the price point of things like the Monique/Noble in comparison to the Oracle in particular, and also options like the SLO and Sushi Box Preamps (their developing B15 and Sunn Model T preamp pedals are incredibly enticing).
At the time I bought my Moniqe it was cheaper than the Noble, and when comparing the two the Monique delivered on my aim of providing a sound that was amp-like(I think the tube rectifier and design of the sensitivity particularly contribute a lot here in terms of sound and feel); whereas to my ears, the Noble is more like a studio/recording preamp - and in fact incredibly similar to the UA LA 610 preamp/eq, much more so than anything amp-y in my experience.
...I'm surprised the UA LA 610 mkII and 6176 don't see more mention here. The 6176 in particular can be had second hand for a bit less than the standard Noble + Cali76 combo, whilst delivering a preamp with more flexibility and a proper 1176 comp; I assume it must be due to the favourability of the pedal form factor.

My collection has since grown to include the Shift Line Olympic, a custom Verellen Meatsmoke, and in the last year or so I have put together a sort of modular effect pedal preamp - comprising of a Linden EQ and an Edison Preamp fed with a revolving cast of low-gain overdrive/dirty boost pedals for some grit, all feeding a RNDI.
This modular effect pedal setup has proven to be a real favourite, and leaves me thinking I could likely replace and consolidate that setup into an Oracle (with it's similar tones tack to the Linden EQ).

I've recently been looking into the DI side of things as I need a couple more for my studio setup; I have a couple RNDIs which I love, though have been considering picking up one of the newer Warm Audio DI boxes. The Active model being capable of switching to a between active/passive modes with the flick of a switch is pretty compelling, and overcomes any concerns re: phantom power availability mentioned in regards to the RNDI. Wondering if anyone here has had any experience?

 

[ThisYouCanTrust]

That said I have yet to come across a situation where phantom power wouldn't be available.

I've seen the opposite more often : your preamp has a xlr out which does not want to see phantom power, gets it anyway

 

[jacoby75]

Mmmmmm. Fenderlicious.

Hey @johnk_10 , well done! It's my new favorite toy. It's amazing how tubey a tubeless pedal can sound! Can the Fet2B run at higher than 9v to give it more headroom, or would you not recommend that?

 

[MascisMan]

@uwrossl @scubaduba @chadhargis

Ok did a quick and dirty comparing the JJ, Mullard, and Gold Lion in the Oracle. I think you will notice most of the difference being in the lower notes and on the little run at about the 1 minute mark (and 1:12). The JJ seems a bit more scooped to me, the Mullard in between, and the Gold Lion a little more rounded off and warm.

Some notes.

1. Bass used was a Jazz Bass with Fralin stock winds and DR Sunbeams. Controls were Volume/Tone all the way up and Blend in the middle.

2. The static you hear in the background is a grounding issue with the Jazz bass, nothing from the tubes/preamp.

3. On the Mullard you can detect the slight AC hum in the background (as previously mentioned). Just barely. Sounds kind of like your refrigerator running.

4. The Studio One EQ is set flat for this demo with the filters just barely on to round off anything extreme. It is mainly being used as a vehicle to get the signal to my Focusrite Scarlett Solo. Though there may be some nuance added from the gain stage.

5. Nothing was added to the track in Audacity. It is raw WAV.

6. As Scuba often mentions, you want some decent phones/buds or you wont hear any difference most likely.

Oracle w/JJ + Studio One


Oracle w/Mullard + Studio One


Oracle w/Gold Lion + Studio One

 

[uwrossl]

@uwrossl @scubaduba @chadhargis

Ok did a quick and dirty comparing the JJ, Mullard, and Gold Lion in the Oracle. I think you will notice most of the difference being in the lower notes and on the little run at about the 1 minute mark (and 1:12). The JJ seems a bit more scooped to me, the Mullard in between, and the Gold Lion a little more rounded off and warm.

Some notes.

1. Bass used was a Jazz Bass with Fralin stock winds and DR Sunbeams. Controls were Volume/Tone all the way up and Blend in the middle.

2. The static you hear in the background is a grounding issue with the Jazz bass, nothing from the tubes/preamp.

3. On the Mullard you can detect the slight AC hum in the background (as previously mentioned). Just barely. Sounds kind of like your refrigerator running.

4. The Studio One EQ is set flat for this demo with the filters just barely on to round off anything extreme. It is mainly being used as a vehicle to get the signal to my Focusrite Scarlett Solo. Though there may be some nuance added from the gain stage.

5. Nothing was added to the track in Audacity. It is raw WAV.

6. As Scuba often mentions, you want some decent phones/buds or you wont hear any difference most likely.

Oracle w/JJ + Studio One


Oracle w/Mullard + Studio One


Oracle w/Gold Lion + Studio One

All three sound great. I think your earlier descriptions were pretty bang on. Just listening on my AirPods I
hear a difference in the voicing/depth of the Mullard and Genalex over the JJ. JJ is the clearest...Mullard is really nice in-between. Genalex though felt like that added depth or warmth sat in a really nice place and maybe retained a little more clarity than the Mullard.

I ordered the Genalex Gold Lion this morning so we'll see how it works for me and how my first tube rolling experiment goes.

 

[scubaduba]

@MascisMan Nice job! The Mullard is a brand new tube correct? If so, it doesn’t surprise me you have issues with it. The new ones are nowhere near the same quality as the vintage Mullards. These new ones are made by another manufacturer.

The stock JJ’s would work best for me of those three.

 

[MascisMan]

@MascisMan Nice job! The Mullard is a brand new tube correct? If so, it doesn’t surprise me you have issues with it. The new ones are nowhere near the same quality as the vintage Mullards. These new ones are made by another manufacturer.

The stock JJ’s would work best for me of those three.

Yeah it is new production and allegedly, "a faithful reproduction of the Mullard 12AX7."

To be fair, it DOES sound good tonally. Just pesky AC hum

 

[jacoby75]

@uwrossl @scubaduba @chadhargis

Ok did a quick and dirty comparing the JJ, Mullard, and Gold Lion in the Oracle. I think you will notice most of the difference being in the lower notes and on the little run at about the 1 minute mark (and 1:12). The JJ seems a bit more scooped to me, the Mullard in between, and the Gold Lion a little more rounded off and warm.

Some notes.

1. Bass used was a Jazz Bass with Fralin stock winds and DR Sunbeams. Controls were Volume/Tone all the way up and Blend in the middle.

2. The static you hear in the background is a grounding issue with the Jazz bass, nothing from the tubes/preamp.

3. On the Mullard you can detect the slight AC hum in the background (as previously mentioned). Just barely. Sounds kind of like your refrigerator running.

4. The Studio One EQ is set flat for this demo with the filters just barely on to round off anything extreme. It is mainly being used as a vehicle to get the signal to my Focusrite Scarlett Solo. Though there may be some nuance added from the gain stage.

5. Nothing was added to the track in Audacity. It is raw WAV.

6. As Scuba often mentions, you want some decent phones/buds or you wont hear any difference most likely.

Oracle w/JJ + Studio One


Oracle w/Mullard + Studio One


Oracle w/Gold Lion + Studio One

Mmmmmmmm. Gold Lion. I am thiiiiis close to selling half of my pedalboard and buying an Oracle. I decided to go with multiple/various/different preamps for the sake of variety (like B15 vs SVT vs transparent). But I usually wind up running most or all of them at the same time anyway to get the sound I want.