The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

[chadhargis]

Well, I'm sure I'm not the only one who's looking forward to your audio samples! Totally get the "ear blind" thing though!

I think after all my window shopping and research, I've settled on the mindset that I will (most likely) pick up an Oracle as an all-in-one tube preamp. But until then, I'm thinking that I'd really like to check out the Edison to see how it combos with my Qstrip, as others suggested earlier in this thread. I know it wouldn't be the same since the combo wouldn't have a tube gain option, but the Edison is also less expensive and would "tide me over" until I can pick up an Oracle.

5sg.

The Edison is sort of an odd duck. It has no tone controls, but it dramatically effects tone and not just in a "tubey" way. It smooths the top end and fattens the bottom end and I haven't really been able to push it to overdrive with just the bass plugged into it. I think it would be perfect for an active bass with a good EQ.

 

[jbhaugh]

The Edison is sort of an odd duck. It has no tone controls, but it dramatically effects tone and not just in a "tubey" way. It smooths the top end and fattens the bottom end and I haven't really been able to push it to overdrive with just the bass plugged into it. I think it would be perfect for an active bass with a good EQ.

I really had to slam the Edison with a boost to get it to OD. The drive sounds pretty good, though. Big and woolly. The baked in tone is very fat and Motown-ish. When turned up pretty high (which is hard because it has a lot of boost on tap) there's almost a resonant LPF effect. The low end gets really huge and round and the highs roll off pretty significantly.

 

[chadhargis]

I really had to slam the Edison with a boost to get it to OD. The drive sounds pretty good, though. Big and woolly. The baked in tone is very fat and Motown-ish. When turned up pretty high (which is hard because it has a lot of boost on tap) there's almost a resonant LPF effect. The low end gets really huge and round and the highs roll off pretty significantly.

Yep...it actually sounds pretty good all by itself. That's why I think with an active bass and an on-board EQ you'd be set.

 

[Rocksolid]

Thanks John...software is working perfectly now!

DI is still futzed up when phantom power is applied, but a fix is on the way!

When you say a fix is on the way, do you mean the purchase of a DI or you have reached out to NuX?
My local Guitar shop now has an MLD in stock but it's these little frustrating gremlins that have me cooling my jets a little. I really really hope they get it sorted.

Mini budget boards are great fun. Putting mine together was enjoyable also.

 

[uwrossl]

Yep...it actually sounds pretty good all by itself. That's why I think with an active bass and an on-board EQ you'd be set.

Have you run the Edison with the Oracle at all?

 

[Littlewing6283]

Quick question. Might be the wrong spot but does anyone here use a Kemper as a DI ?

but on an on topic note I couldn't hold out any longer and started the process to obtain an Arkham oracle. I'll pair it with my rndi

now to go full talkbass and order a la1a this month. Ahhh heck might just build another board

 

[fivestringgecko]

The baked in tone is very fat and Motown-ish.

You had me at "fat," but "Motown" is also pushing the right buttons at the moment. I've been digging into Motown (aka Jamerson) tone quite a bit again lately.

5sg.

 

[mikeGJ]

Gotcha!

Yep, the NuX does NOT like phantom power....especially in a live setting....Don't ask how I know..

Boards and consoles can (usually) be set to NOT supply phantom power, on a per-line basis.

NUX documentation should advise against PP, IMO, definitely a mistake not to mention it!

If your board situation does not allow switching off of phantom power, you can buy or build an XLR phantom power blocker (Amazon, B&H, etc.)

 

[chadhargis]

When you say a fix is on the way, do you mean the purchase of a DI or you have reached out to NuX?

I have done both. I have a DI on the way, as well as a phantom power blocker so I can try both. I have also reached out to NuX and provided them a sample of the noise the pedal makes with phantom power is applied.

Have you run the Edison with the Oracle at all?

No, I haven't. The Oracle already has loads of tubey goodness. I feel it would be redundant, but it may be fantastic. I might have to try it.

NUX documentation should advise against PP, IMO, definitely a mistake not to mention it!

If your board situation does not allow switching off of phantom power, you can buy or build an XLR phantom power blocker (Amazon, B&H, etc.)

Yeah..it should have been documented. I have a power blocker on the way. Just another piece of kit to keep track of. Arrrgh!

 

[chadhargis]

Boutique Board vs Budget Board
Here are the initial clips.

Boutique Board
The board itself cost more than much of the budget board with all the patch modules and power cords. Here's the signal path in the clip:

JHS Buffered Splitter --> Peterson StroboStompHD Tuner --> Southhampton Pedals All Things Equal Level Switcher --> FEA Labs DE-CL Compressor --> [sfx]microThumpinator --> Arkham Oracle --> Rupert Neve DI --> Channel 1 on Allen & Heath ZEDi10 Mixer


Budget Board
Here's the signal path:

JHS Buffered Splitter --> Sonic Research Turbo Tuner Mini --> Night Owl Edison Preamp (unity gain) --> Becos Compiq Compressor Mini --> NuX MLD Preamp --> Channel 2 on Allen & Heath MEDi10 Mixer

Bass:
Warmoth 5-string J bass:

• Black Limba Body
• Bubinga neck w/ Wenge finger board
• Machine inserts in neck bolted on with machine screws
• Nordstrand Big Single Jazz pickups (preamp in passive mode with tone control wide open)
• Stringjoy Nickel Strings
• KSM Foundation Bridge

Clips
Boutique board: Dropbox - Boutique Board.wav - Simplify your life
Budget board: Dropbox - Budget Board.wav - Simplify your life

 

[Sushi Box FX]

I'm excited for the B-15 pedal as well. I recommended @Sushi Box FX make a tube B-15 preamp because it could potentially be a game changer for bassists. I don't know how many times I've seen the question, "Is there a B-15 in a pedal?"

Sorry it took me so long to weigh in on this, I'm out of town house hunting and I didn't bring a computer. So I currently have a design for a B-15 tube preamp (as well as a two-channel Model T and a HiWatt). As soon as I find a new house and move into it I have 11 new designs to send out for, and it's on the list.

 

[kranahan]

Sorry it took me so long to weigh in on this, I'm out of town house hunting and I didn't bring a computer. So I currently have a design for a B-15 tube preamp (as well as a two-channel Model T and a HiWatt). As soon as I find a new house and move into it I have 11 new designs to send out for, and it's on the list.

No worries! We all know you're in the middle of moving to Illinois.

 

[jacoby75]

Boutique Board vs Budget Board
Here are the initial clips.
Clips
Boutique board: Dropbox - Boutique Board.wav - Simplify your life
Budget board: Dropbox - Budget Board.wav - Simplify your life

View attachment 3913365

Ooooh. I'm always so bad at this game. But I listened on both my computer speakers/sub, studio headphones, and quad-driver IEM's. The sounds are so similar it's crazy. Perhaps the difference would be less negligible if the Edison were not part of the budget board. But I feel like the difference between some of the boutique preamps and some of the "lesser," more "cost-effective" stuff, is that there tends to be a bit more "heft" to the notes when coming from a good preamp. I have heard some demos comparing the Nux to others that have blown me away. And I think the Edison helped it out that much more in this comparison.

 

[chadhargis]

Ooooh. I'm always so bad at this game. But I listened on both my computer speakers/sub, studio headphones, and quad-driver IEM's. The sounds are so similar it's crazy. Perhaps the difference would be less negligible if the Edison were not part of the budget board. But I feel like the difference between some of the boutique preamps and some of the "lesser," more "cost-effective" stuff, is that there tends to be a bit more "heft" to the notes when coming from a good preamp. I have heard some demos comparing the Nux to others that have blown me away. And I think the Edison helped it out that much more in this comparison.

I've done a shootout pitting the NuX versus the Oracle a while back. The Edison does bring them closer.

What I've discovered is that you can spend $400 and get something like the SLO which is, IMHO, the best bang for the buck preamp on the planet right now, or you can spend twice that amount and get a slightly better one that no one other than a die hard audiophile uber sound nerd is going to notice the difference in a live mix.

I think the more expensive products like the Noble, Shaw, Oracle, etc. really shine in a studio setting, but in that setting you can mic up a B-15 or just record direct and do everything in the DAW.

There is, however, a DRAMATIC difference between something like the SLO and something like a Sansamp or the various preamps that are in the $100-$200 range. That's why the NuX gets such acclaim..it's way better than anything else in its price bracket.

 

[jacoby75]

I've done a shootout pitting the NuX versus the Oracle a while back. The Edison does bring them closer.

What I've discovered is that you can spend $400 and get something like the SLO which is, IMHO, the best bang for the buck preamp on the planet right now, or you can spend twice that amount and get a slightly better one that no one other than a die hard audiophile uber sound nerd is going to notice the difference in a live mix.

And that's the debate I've been having with myself (and losing) for the past few months or so. Do I spend $200-ish to add an Edison to my Linden or other preamps, putting me anywhere from $325-$425/ea all in (Edison combined with other preamps), or do I just pony up a little more for a SLO or for a little more get an Oracle? And back and forth I go. At least this way (currently without a SLO or Oracle) I feel like I have some variety. I'm starting to develop some distinct sounds for worship vs. cover band material, for example, using different preamps. If I only had the one SLO or Oracle, I'd only have one sound, give or take. But a glorious sound it would be. But as this shootout shows, an Edison added to just about anything can sound pretty darn close. And you could still have a modular setup with different preamps fed by the Edison.

 

[chadhargis]

And that's the debate I've been having with myself (and losing) for the past few months or so. Do I spend $200-ish to add an Edison to my Linden or other preamps, putting me anywhere from $325-$425/ea all in (Edison combined with other preamps), or do I just pony up a little more for a SLO or for a little more get an Oracle? And back and forth I go. At least this way (currently without a SLO or Oracle) I feel like I have some variety. I'm starting to develop some distinct sounds for worship vs. cover band material, for example, using different preamps. If I only had the one SLO or Oracle, I'd only have one sound, give or take. But a glorious sound it would be. But as this shootout shows, an Edison added to just about anything can sound pretty darn close. And you could still have a modular setup with different preamps fed by the Edison.

If I had nothing, and had to start from zero, I'd probably buy the SLO simply based on the value of it. For the money, it really is very, very good. The Noble was great, the Shaw was great and only beat the Noble because of it's superior EQ. The Oracle and the Shaw are very similar, but the midrage "range" control on the Oracle gives you more flexibility than the Shaw's three way switch. But when you consider the SLO is 90% as good as those, plus it has loadable IR sims from a SD card, has a headphone jack for practicing, has an effects loop for your comp or other effects, and it runs off your board power supply....well that's too good to pass up.

But the NuX at $150...which includes the software with amp/cab sims....plus an Edison gives you what the SLO has (minus the FX loop) for less money and it still runs off your board power. Plus you have the option of going "tubey" or not.

 

[Rocksolid]

Which Phantom power blocker have you gone with @chadhargis ?

 

[tedsalt]

I've done a shootout pitting the NuX versus the Oracle a while back. The Edison does bring them closer.

What I've discovered is that you can spend $400 and get something like the SLO which is, IMHO, the best bang for the buck preamp on the planet right now, or you can spend twice that amount and get a slightly better one that no one other than a die hard audiophile uber sound nerd is going to notice the difference in a live mix.

I think the more expensive products like the Noble, Shaw, Oracle, etc. really shine in a studio setting, but in that setting you can mic up a B-15 or just record direct and do everything in the DAW.

There is, however, a DRAMATIC difference between something like the SLO and something like a Sansamp or the various preamps that are in the $100-$200 range. That's why the NuX gets such acclaim..it's way better than anything else in its price bracket.

The Oracle isn't that much more than the SLO -

shift line olympic MkIIIS $440
arkham sound oracle $550
shaw tube injection preamp/di $849
noble preamp/di $1099+

Personally I'm glad I waited for the Oracle rather than going with the SLO. True it does not have an XLR out, but it sounds glorious with the RNDI, which I picked up for another $200 used.

Budget (good) tube tone = SLO (this is correct)

and while you probably can't tell the difference in a bar band mix, when I play at church there are dynamics when it's just quieter bass only and you may be able to tell differences then. Which led to my choice.

Everybody has their own uses and reasons for using what they do. I'm not saying the SLO is wrong, I'm just saying the Oracle is right for me and my use(s), that's all.

 

[chadhargis]

Which Phantom power blocker have you gone with @chadhargis ?

I picked up this one from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01HYH0AZQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

The Oracle isn't that much more than the SLO -

shift line olympic MkIIIS $440
arkham sound oracle $550
shaw tube injection preamp/di $849
noble preamp/di $1099+

Personally I'm glad I waited for the Oracle rather than going with the SLO. True it does not have an XLR out, but it sounds glorious with the RNDI, which I picked up for another $200 used.

Budget (good) tube tone = SLO (this is correct)

and while you probably can't tell the difference in a bar band mix, when I play at church there are dynamics when it's just quieter bass only and you may be able to tell differences then. Which led to my choice.

Everybody has their own uses and reasons for using what they do. I'm not saying the SLO is wrong, I'm just saying the Oracle is right for me and my use(s), that's all.

I agree with you completely, which is why I run the Oracle + RNDI combo. It truly is the BEST sounding set up I've encountered. I mostly play in church and there are times when it's me and the keys...maybe a guitar doing some swells or trills. But that huge low end rattles the building and in that moment...I'm glad I paid for the expensive gear. Of course, I am also typically wearing my Backbeat wearable subwoofer, so the sound guy may have me out of the mix completely and I'd never know...my body is vibrating and my IEM mix sounds great.

 

[uwrossl]

but it may be fantastic. I might have to try it.

Well exactly! May very well be redundant. It could be redundant but you never know. Of course there's a possibility of redundancy. It may well be redundant and produce diminishing returns but that's exactly why I'm curious...about the possible redundancy. See what I did there Couldn't help myself. It's been a long day and feels like a Monday.

Kidding aside I was thinking about the possibility of using one to coax some extra drive and saturation out of the other. Could be useful with the Edison being a stomp format and kicking it on and off when needed.