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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison

#4,662
chadhargis said:
Starlifter Sound Sample

As promised, here are some samples of the Starlifter. I included a comparison with the NuX we all know and love that seems to be the budget champ for those who don't want to drop big coin on a tube preamp.

So let's start with the good. Does the Starlifter sound good? Yes! It does. Does it sound better than the NuX? To me, it does. It has a warmer more "pillowy" sound to it that fits my ears better and I believe sits in a mix better. BUT...new it costs over twice as much as the NuX, it runs on AC power which limits your options for pedal board power supplies, it's heavy (which is not a bad thing unless you're schleping it long distances), and it's JUST a preamp/DI...No cab sims, no headphone jack, no HPF, no drive circuit, no AUX in, on amp sims, no software interface....just a preamp. Oh, and it's almost double the size of the NuX.

Here's the signal path:

Bluesman Vintage P/J (passive) --> Becos CompIQ Compressor --> NuX --> Allen & Heath Mixer Channel 1 --> GarageBand


Bluesman Vintage P/J (passive) --> Becos CompIQ Compressor --> NuX Through Out --> Starlifter --> Allen & Heath Mixer Channel 2 --> GarageBand

I'm using the NuX "Through" output to feed the Starlifter. I made sure it was an uneffected signal. Supposed to be parallel to the input, and it appears it is. Saved me some cable swapping. I heard no difference when run direct.

All "features" are off (cab sim, HPF, etc. on the NuX and the "Contour" on the Starlifter). Only bass, mid, and treble controls are used for tone shaping, but the treble is set flat on both units.

I used the same track I used before. Recorded the two preamps simultaneously. Here ya go:

Tin Man - Starlifter

Tin Man - Nux

Tin Man - Starlifter (bass only)

Tin Man - NuX (bass only)

Final Thoughts
Going to do my best to hide my bias for all things Nordstrand. I love Carey's products, and the Starlifter is no different. It's a HIGH QUALITY piece of gear. Very well made and as you can hear in the samples, it sounds good too. Even without the EQ on the DI sounds fantastic. If you used it purely as a DI it's really nice. So if you are looking for a quality solid state preamp/DI to build your rig around...consider the Starlifter. It's a really good piece of kit.

Now for the bad, or at least "inconvenient" stuff. I won't really call anything about the Starlifter "bad", because nothing about this pedal is bad. Pain in the rectum might be a better phrase. First off...and I've already mentioned it a few times...the power supply. I really, really, really don't want to divest myself of my current pedal board power supplies to get one with an AC outlet. They are available and if you are building a board from scratch, pick up a T-Rex or Ciocks AC and be happy. So beyond the goofy power, what else bugs me? The size. It's big. I didn't open it up to see why, but it's footprint rivals that of the Noble. Of course, it's shorter top to bottom, but that's seldom an issue on pedal boards. If you buy it new, you're looking to drop $350. That puts it in some very good company. Comparing it to the NuX at $150 isn't even a fair fight. The NuX requires a phantom power filter which in essence adds another $40 to the NuX's cost unless you want to deal with the hideous noise the NuX makes if it's feed phantom power and the yelling at the sound guy to please disable PP to your channel. The software for the NuX is pretty clunky, but it's better than the software for the Starlifter (there isn't any sort of digital interface in it).

Bottom line, the Starlifter is one of the best sounding solid state preamps I've ever tried. I really like it. I'm torn right now. If I remove the NuX from my baby board and drop the Starlifter in its place, I have to run two power cords. I also have to remove the NightOwl Edison since I'll need to make room. I lose the drive section of the NuX as well as cab sim, and also the ability to practice silently with headphones when I'm away from my music room. Is the incremental improvement in tone worth the trade offs? To me...no. But I freakin' love the Starlifter. It is very nice and I desperately want to find a place for it in my rig...but I just can't right now. I may hold on to it and end up pickup up a Nano+ board somewhere cheap which will solve my real estate problem.

As promised, I am going to loan the Starlifter to @scubaduba and let him give you his opinion which I'm sure will focus more on pure tone and less on practicality. To me, a piece of gear needs both. It needs to sound good, and work well with my other equipment. But on it's own, standing alone, the Starlifter is VERY good.
Click to expand...

I considered the Starlifter when looking at preamps this past year. It certainly sounds good from everything I've heard. Ultimately, the price was a major factor, I couldn't justify it for myself. One thing that I didn't like was the input & output jacks at the top are on opposite sides of seemingly every other pedal, going left to right vs right to left. I ended up going with the NuX MLD, which I really like a lot.
 
#4,663
There's a lot of talk of high end preamps on here as of late, and I thought i would interject a little more of the midrange stuff. I had the opportunity to have two preamps at the same time and try them out side by side. the two i selected to try were the Mesa Subway + DI and preamp and the Darkglass Microtubes B7K Ultra V2 special edition 'squid'.
First off, the Darkglass blew the Mesa out of the water. It had a deep, rich, full, quality tone that was somehow all that and had clarity and punch at the same time. Both my fiance and I were blown away by how every little nuance of my playing seemed to be enhanced. I found myself remarking again and again at how the subtlest adjustment went a very long way. The pedal itself was of the upmost quality, from the craftsmanship to the little toggle switches, everything had that quality sense to it. So the tone and quality were top notch, but the other features were absolutely over the top. This is a standalone practice tool, with an aux in and headphone jack. If that wasn't enought, there is a Cab sim via the Darkglass suite, that lets you choose from 20 or so different cabs. Each of them is unique and textured in their own way. I did have a chance to do a little recording with it, and both that and live are spectacular. very low noise floor and rich sound via the direct out.

The Mesa is a great preamp, just not what i was looking for. The dials are also very responsive, and i liked the inclusion of the HPF and tone control. There are a lot of well thought out options for the connections of this preamp. their are independent outs for preamp and DI. pre and post eq swich, and two seperate ground lifts. This would be a very good choice for someone looking for a transparent preamp to record or go direct with. It is very flexible, but just didn't have the colored texture or tone that i was looking for.

All in all i had a lot of fun comparing the two and putting them through their paces. It was an opportunity I wouldn't have had without the help of my fiance who has been so supportive and wonderfully excited about my playing. Here's a shot of the two side by side.
 

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#4,667
misterCRUSH said:
Fair enough...but my point was that great preamps CAN be affordable
Click to expand...

Totally. I don't consider high end to be a reflection of price point. Case and point is the Nux. Also wouldn't consider Darkglass or Mesa middle of the road. Quality craftsmanship and products and $400+ aint cheap. The only difference between them and the others in that price point is they don't have the boutique mystique. Common well known brands that most every player is familiar with and known for quality products.
 
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#4,674
Rocksolid said:
I thought it was supposed to be a Great Comparison of many Preamps, not a Comparison of only Great Preamps...:woot::thumbsup:
Click to expand...

When I started this thread I never dreamed it would still be going and have 234 pages of posts over a couple of years. My goal was to document my personal search for a preamp in hopes that it may help some folks and that more experienced people would chime in (boy did they!). I had specific things I was looking for. At the time, I was using a Tone Hammer and I actually really liked it, but I was interested in the tube side of the world.

This rabbit hole has gotten VERY deep. LOL! :)
 
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#4,676
chadhargis said:
When I started this thread I never dreamed it would still be going and have 234 pages of posts over a couple of years. My goal was to document my personal search for a preamp in hopes that it may help some folks and that more experienced people would chime in (boy did they!). I had specific things I was looking for. At the time, I was using a Tone Hammer and I actually really liked it, but I was interested in the tube side of the world.

This rabbit hole has gotten VERY deep. LOL! :)
Click to expand...
I was watching this thread in the very beginning! As I've said before, I stopped watching because of the gas this rabbit hole constantly induced! At the time I had a THDI, and still do. I wonder if it would rate for you if you went and used again now? I actually still rate mine.
I'm glad you created this thread, and I'm glad it's still going and that it evolved to include DIs, Preamps, and also Compressors. As most of us have come to realise, the way these interact is a massive piece of the puzzle.
 
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#4,678
Rocksolid said:
I wonder if it would rate for you if you went and used again now? I actually still rate mine.
Click to expand...

I have evaluated some really nice gear over the life of this thread and I think the biggest lesson I learned is that I prefer simplicity. At one point I had a MIDI controlled fully programmable setup with digital effects and cab sims. There was simply too many options. I'd get "my tone" dialed in then the next day I would twist another knob and it would sound better. Then the next day I'd set it back to what I had before and I'd like it better.

I think it boiled down to not having the required knowledge to use the complicated setup. Now I shoot for a good solid tone that sounds good in the mix. If I fire up my budget board I think it sounds amazing. Until I fire up the boutique stuff and it just sounds fuller and more immersive. But I don't think anyone other than a bass player or audiophile could possibly notice the difference in a mix.

So could I go back to the Tone Hammer and be happy with it. Yes. Probably more so since I've had so much exposure to other equipment. But at the end of the day, I simply enjoy turning knobs and trying new things.
 
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#4,680
Btbp said:
For me it's kinda like learning how to use an HPF by cranking it up then easing it back - I learn enough to be dangerous about all these pedals and technologies, drink some of the Koolaide, pull the trigger on some, populate my board with more than I really need, pres especially, and ideally from that I will pull back and simplify.
Click to expand...

I've been fortunate to work with some great sound engineers who have provided some guidance. One of the things I learned was "narrowing" The tone down to slot into the band. Not stepping on the keys, kick, lower register guitar, vocals, etc.

We talk a lot about tone in the context of hearing it solo. But bass is a support instrument that needs to fill the bottom of the sonic spectrum without creating mud or boom. The great thing about simple rigs is that you can quickly reset them if knobs get bumped in transport or if you need to make a change on the fly.

I always look for a good base tone that I can easily alter with my hands or onboard controls. I can get vastly different tones from active vs passive, tweaking EQ setting on the bass, rolling off tone controls, changing hand positions, changing my attack, or using a pick.
 
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