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The Great Bass Preamp/DI Comparison
- Thread starter chadhargis
- Start date
That would work, but you'd have no amp sim, no cab sim, and only one effect at a time.
The HX Stomp is the perfect solution for the money. I ditched my Khan in favor of the Finally DI since it was more board friendly. I've been playing with the Punchline all afternoon. Different basses, different settings. I really like this things. JHS outdid themselves.
Yeah, the GLXD and Stomp are on my Nano board powered by a CIOKS DC7. It would be dumb to go HX One. I'll keep my Stomp but just use to for effects. I don't really use amp or cab models. I do want to add the Empress Bass Compressor though. I have room and power. I like the Khan better than the Finally and will leave it loose so I can use it with my solid state combo amp.
You find the tube sound of the Khan is worth the size difference over the Finally? Or did the Finally just color the sound too much?
I just didn't get what I wanted from the Finally. Too colored is a good description I guess. I liked that I could power it with my DC7.
I find it interesting that there are so many TB'ers, who consider the SLO to be "colored."
My "big" rigs are all driven by either Demeter preamps or Alembic preamps; and I've always considered those pieces to be on the "clean" side of things. BTW, the Demeter Bass 400 with the dove cage mod makes an outstanding tube preamp as well; though somewhat too large a footprint for many fly gig pedalboards. James has a new unit, called the VTTB, which seems to be a pretty cool unit as well.
Anyhow, my SLO fits rather comfortably into the same tonal spectrum as my Demeter VTBP and Alembic F1X units. I still use it and have no reason to look further. Different strokes, I suppose.
My "big" rigs are all driven by either Demeter preamps or Alembic preamps; and I've always considered those pieces to be on the "clean" side of things. BTW, the Demeter Bass 400 with the dove cage mod makes an outstanding tube preamp as well; though somewhat too large a footprint for many fly gig pedalboards. James has a new unit, called the VTTB, which seems to be a pretty cool unit as well.
Anyhow, my SLO fits rather comfortably into the same tonal spectrum as my Demeter VTBP and Alembic F1X units. I still use it and have no reason to look further. Different strokes, I suppose.
I got my Punchline back in August. It has quickly became my number one, that pedal and a Korg Pitchblack is all I need.NEW PREAMP DAY!
Wasn't planning on this...but it's a pleasant surprise.
So as you guys know, I picked up a Quad Cortex, and it's incredible. The possibilities are endless. I've been getting some very good tones out of it, and I'm sorry I haven't posted any clips yet. There is a very good reason for that though.
I haven't really fallen in love with any of the compressors in the QC. They are "fine", in the way your wife says things are "fine". I am getting more of that pumping sound and less of the fatness that I like from a good comp. So I have a Templeboard Solo 18 on order so I can build a board to run my comp in the effects loop. Yes, I could just hook it up and make some clips, but I want to get everything dialed in with the QC and my Becos Stella (my preferred comp...I love it). The only issue is the Templeboard stuff is all backordered. So I have to wait on it.
So I broke apart my old HX Stomp board and sold the Stomp and the Finally DI. That left me with an empty Pedaltrain Nano+. I had a Sonic Turbo Tuner Mini laying around. So I started thinking about doing something all analog. Just the polar opposite of the QC. I started looking in the classifieds here and something caught my eye. My very first album I ever owned was Beach Boys Endless Summer. Got it when I was 5yo for a penny from one of those "get 10 records for a penny" clubs. You can thank my big brother for that, he was 17yo...he should have known better. Anyway...I see this JHS bass preamp called the Punchline and it has "The Beach Boys" written on it. I did some research and found out they only made 1000 of them as part of a tribute documentary on The Beach Boys. I started watching some videos of the pedal and everyone liked it. That's rare when you get a consensus on reviews. No one had anything bad to say. The used version was $100 less than a new one so I figured "why not", and I picked it up. But what to do about my need of the occasional effect? The Punchline has a drive and compressor built in, so I really don't need anything elaborate. Well I loved my HX Stomp...so I just found a HX One used on Reverb and bought it. I already had some AUX buttons I used with the HXS, so I tossed them on the board to toggle between presets. I set it to true bypass since I don't typically run effects with tails...so 90% of the time it will be doing nothing, but I'll have all the Helix effects I enjoyed on my HXS.
JHS Punchline
So about the punchline. As of the time of this post, I've owned it for about an hour and have maybe 15 minutes of playing time on it. Let me just say this. As good as digital rigs are, especially if you put in the time to really tweak them and experiment with the various options, a good simple analog pedal can be a blessing. That's the Punchline. I was in love with it from the first note. Holy cow, they did a good job on this pedal. And I should mention, calling it a "pedal" is really not accurate. It's more akin to an aircraft carrier. It's a BIG boy. It's a little shorter front to back than the QC, but otherwise nearly the same size.
My initial impression...and I want to play with it some more...is that this thing is magnificent. I've had a lot of preamp pedals (as evidenced by this thread) and I'd put the Punchline immediately in the top 5. It's really that good. No tubes in it. No digital anything. No IR cab sims. No USB port. It's just an EQ section (which of course I can expand using the HX One), an Amp Sim section, a Drive section, and a Compressor.
So I already mentioned that I was less than thrilled with the comps in the QC. I think compressors are hard to emulate just by the nature of how they work. The Punchline had several co-developers besides just JHS. One of those guys was Robert Keeley. If you aren't familiar with Keeley compressors, they are very good comps. I used to have one back when I was on my compressor sampling kick. It was one of my favorites. Well...the comp in the Punchline is excellent. Just a gain, Comp/Ratio, and threshold knob with a pre/post switch. Very simple, but obviously tuned for bass. It's fantastic.
The Drive circuit is good too. Nothing magical, but it sounds good. The amp sim is actually really good too. I feel like it also has a cab sim in there too as it does darken things up some, but the EQ can fix that as can the "Presence" knob which is similar to that on a SansAmp.
So I owe you guys some clips, and I promise I'll get you some. I can't wait to do a shootout. The $2000 QC vs the $400 (used) Punchline. David vs Goliath. Spoiler alert, the QC will kill it as I can simply capture the Punchline and store it in the QC...and I plan on doing that.
So here's what my kinda sorta analog board looks like. You can clearly see the signal path...pretty simple. Tuner, HX One, and Punchline. I am powering everything with a Ciocks Sol (also used off Reverb).
View attachment 7071280
View attachment 7071281
Like you I grew up on that magical era of music. The Fifth Dimension,s "Aquarius/Let the Sunshine" kills me everytime I hear it.
I know, Joe Osborn played on that one, but along with Carol Kaye, Joe brought that sound as well.
It's really good. The best part of it is that it's hard to get a bad tone out of it. I've been doing A/B comparisons between it and the Quad Cortex and it comes as no surprise that the QC does sound better and has more flexibility, but that's because I've spend hours tweaking it and downloading Neural Captures that I like. The Punchline was spot on about 5 minutes after I hooked it up. It's really that good. Set everything "flat" and tweak a few knobs and you're off to the races.
My only complaint so far is that the master volume controls both the 1/4" and XLR. I'd rather the XLR be a fixed output as there is a massive volume disparity when feeding my power amp from the 1/4" and what my mixer gets from the XLR. I also wish the switches were mechanical latching switches so when you power on the pedal, your previous settings were preserved. That's a big nit pick, as all I have to do is switch on the compressor....but still.
I utilize non less than 4 always on preamps in my amp-less setup, which might seem excessive, but it works and sounds awesome:
->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, with 2 preamp tubes operating at proper high 300V plate voltage, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage, driven to just at the edge of the tubes's breakup point, but with some very subtle compression dialed in as well) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Oxford Sound (clone of the Tech 21 Oxford, which is an all analog emulation of an Orange Amp type preamp, dialed in to deliver a low gain overdrive, always used blended with "clean" signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> ([Loops B] empty, used to blend in "clean" signal) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an approximate 50/50 ratio) => [LS-2 Output] }=>->> NUX (NBP-5) Melvin Lee Davis Bass Preamp + DI (loaded with a digitally emulated Aguilar Tone Hammer amp, and an Ampeg SVT-212AV IR cab simulation, with HPF @ 40Hz, LPF @ 14kHz, and a subtle low gain overdrive blended in at a 50/50 clean/drive ratio) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz, engaged, tube driven to just on the verge of breakup point) ->>
->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, with 2 preamp tubes operating at proper high 300V plate voltage, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage, driven to just at the edge of the tubes's breakup point, but with some very subtle compression dialed in as well) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Oxford Sound (clone of the Tech 21 Oxford, which is an all analog emulation of an Orange Amp type preamp, dialed in to deliver a low gain overdrive, always used blended with "clean" signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> ([Loops B] empty, used to blend in "clean" signal) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an approximate 50/50 ratio) => [LS-2 Output] }=>->> NUX (NBP-5) Melvin Lee Davis Bass Preamp + DI (loaded with a digitally emulated Aguilar Tone Hammer amp, and an Ampeg SVT-212AV IR cab simulation, with HPF @ 40Hz, LPF @ 14kHz, and a subtle low gain overdrive blended in at a 50/50 clean/drive ratio) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz, engaged, tube driven to just on the verge of breakup point) ->>
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Doesn't seem excessive to me.
That's a lot of what I do with digital gear. My HX Stomp and now my Quad Cortex use various tone shapers besides just the amp sim.
I'm about two weeks into my experiment of running either my Spector RST 5 or Stingray Special HH 5 into this board:
Empress Bass Comp -> HX Stomp -> SLO -> headphones
and am generally feeling good about it. I'm not 100% convinced that the SLO is an integral part of this setup - it does provide some immediate volume / tone options instead of having to dive into the HXS menus, but it strikes me that something else could fill this role in a smaller physical / price footprint... but I do have some FOMO over selling the SLO considering it's harder to come by.
Empress Bass Comp -> HX Stomp -> SLO -> headphones
and am generally feeling good about it. I'm not 100% convinced that the SLO is an integral part of this setup - it does provide some immediate volume / tone options instead of having to dive into the HXS menus, but it strikes me that something else could fill this role in a smaller physical / price footprint... but I do have some FOMO over selling the SLO considering it's harder to come by.
I'm going to add an Empress back to my board before my Stomp. I run into a Khan tube DI. I'm liking it so far. It doesn't give me immediate access to tone or eq but I don't seem to want to do a lot of that on gigs anyway. I am using the Stomp for comp and hi and low pass right now. No amp/cab modeling. Kind of overkill. I do use chorus and pitch shift for an "instant Eb" bass which is kind of nice instead of having a dedicated physical Eb bass. If I didn't like that option I'd probably just go comp (maybe an Empress EQ) to Khan and call it good. I used to not use effects and no one really noticed or cared.
Follow up on my Quad Cortex & JHS Punchline demos.
My gear from Sweetwater should be arriving today and I can get the QC mounted to a pedalboard and my FX loops set up. The Punchline continues to impress me. I used it live on Sunday and was really happy with it. I've been playing more with the HX One in front of the Punchline. Setting up some effects. I'm familiar with the effects as I used them on the HX Stomp. Same effects. Just for fun, I put the Noble DI (aka Regal DI in the HX world) in front of the Punchline. It added the tubey goodness the Punchline was missing as it has no tubes or DSP to emulate tubes. I can't wait to get some clips recorded. The fun thing is, I'm planning on doing some captures of the Punchline so I can have that tone with me in the QC.
The Punchline isn't trying to emulate a particular amp, but a "sound". So it can't be compared head to head with anything in the QC. And the QC just out muscles it as if you were willing to spend the time, you can sculpt your tone however you wish and even capture a tone you like.
Stay tuned!
My gear from Sweetwater should be arriving today and I can get the QC mounted to a pedalboard and my FX loops set up. The Punchline continues to impress me. I used it live on Sunday and was really happy with it. I've been playing more with the HX One in front of the Punchline. Setting up some effects. I'm familiar with the effects as I used them on the HX Stomp. Same effects. Just for fun, I put the Noble DI (aka Regal DI in the HX world) in front of the Punchline. It added the tubey goodness the Punchline was missing as it has no tubes or DSP to emulate tubes. I can't wait to get some clips recorded. The fun thing is, I'm planning on doing some captures of the Punchline so I can have that tone with me in the QC.
The Punchline isn't trying to emulate a particular amp, but a "sound". So it can't be compared head to head with anything in the QC. And the QC just out muscles it as if you were willing to spend the time, you can sculpt your tone however you wish and even capture a tone you like.
Stay tuned!
Gear arrived that I needed to built a board around the Quad Cortex. I hope to get some time this weekend to record some clips.
Here are the clips.
A few things to keep in mind...
This is not a comparison. The Quad Cortex and the Punchline are VASTLY different pieces of kit. It would be like trying to compare a slide rule to a modern supercomputer. The Punchline was really just an impulse purchase that I had no intension of buying until I bought it and I am very pleased with it.
I've had the Quad Cortex for a few weeks. I've tweaked and tuned the sound over that time and continue to do so. I've tried multiple Neural Captures, amp sims, IRs, etc. The clip you hear is where I am at the time of recording this clip...but that doesn't mean it will sound the same in two or three weeks, or months.
The Punchline tone you hear is what I arrived at about 5 minutes after taking it out of the box. It's an "old school" tone for sure, and that's what the pedal was designed for, but you can get a more modern tone out of it. In the clip, I'm running the comp and amp sim on the Punchline. I do not have the drive engaged. I have no external effects engaged.
The Quad Cortex, on the other hand, has a wealth of tone shaping in the signal path, mostly all digital, but a couple of old analog friends. Once the signal hits the QC, the first stop is the FX loop #2 where it is routed through the six microThumpinator, then the signal goes out to FX loop #1 to hit the Becos Stella compressor. From there it is all back to the digital world with a Neural Capture of an Ampeg SVT Heritage, through Scubabuba's excellent "Secret Sauce" capture, then to a 70's SVT cab sim that I tweaked the mic placement on to get some more mids and highs.
So you can see...this isn't and really can't be a comparison. The Punchline is a great piece of gear, but it's out gunned. Really a knife to a gunfight sort of thing. But I think you guys will see, it's holds its own. It's especially impressive because I could have bought 4 Punchlines for what the QC cost, and that's not counting the $500 more for the Thumpinator and Becos Comp. If you guys want an "all in one" preamp/DI on a budget, check out the Punchline.
The Demos
Here's the signal path:
Yamaha BBP35 --> JHS Buffered Splitter --> Punchline --> PreSonus StudioLive --> GarageBand
Yamaha BBP35 --> JHS Buffered Splitter --> Quad Cortex Input #1 --> sfx microThumpinator --> Becos Stella Comp--> Ampeg Heritage SVT --> "Secret Sauce" --> 70's 8x10 SVT Cab --> Quad Cortex XLR Out 1 --> PreSonus StudioLive --> GarageBand
Because it's a split signal, it's the same playing on both demos. They were recorded at the same time. No differences in the playing at all.
JHS Punchline Demo
Neural Quad Cortex Demo
A few things to keep in mind...
This is not a comparison. The Quad Cortex and the Punchline are VASTLY different pieces of kit. It would be like trying to compare a slide rule to a modern supercomputer. The Punchline was really just an impulse purchase that I had no intension of buying until I bought it and I am very pleased with it.
I've had the Quad Cortex for a few weeks. I've tweaked and tuned the sound over that time and continue to do so. I've tried multiple Neural Captures, amp sims, IRs, etc. The clip you hear is where I am at the time of recording this clip...but that doesn't mean it will sound the same in two or three weeks, or months.
The Punchline tone you hear is what I arrived at about 5 minutes after taking it out of the box. It's an "old school" tone for sure, and that's what the pedal was designed for, but you can get a more modern tone out of it. In the clip, I'm running the comp and amp sim on the Punchline. I do not have the drive engaged. I have no external effects engaged.
The Quad Cortex, on the other hand, has a wealth of tone shaping in the signal path, mostly all digital, but a couple of old analog friends. Once the signal hits the QC, the first stop is the FX loop #2 where it is routed through the six microThumpinator, then the signal goes out to FX loop #1 to hit the Becos Stella compressor. From there it is all back to the digital world with a Neural Capture of an Ampeg SVT Heritage, through Scubabuba's excellent "Secret Sauce" capture, then to a 70's SVT cab sim that I tweaked the mic placement on to get some more mids and highs.
So you can see...this isn't and really can't be a comparison. The Punchline is a great piece of gear, but it's out gunned. Really a knife to a gunfight sort of thing. But I think you guys will see, it's holds its own. It's especially impressive because I could have bought 4 Punchlines for what the QC cost, and that's not counting the $500 more for the Thumpinator and Becos Comp. If you guys want an "all in one" preamp/DI on a budget, check out the Punchline.
The Demos
Here's the signal path:
Yamaha BBP35 --> JHS Buffered Splitter --> Punchline --> PreSonus StudioLive --> GarageBand
Yamaha BBP35 --> JHS Buffered Splitter --> Quad Cortex Input #1 --> sfx microThumpinator --> Becos Stella Comp--> Ampeg Heritage SVT --> "Secret Sauce" --> 70's 8x10 SVT Cab --> Quad Cortex XLR Out 1 --> PreSonus StudioLive --> GarageBand
Because it's a split signal, it's the same playing on both demos. They were recorded at the same time. No differences in the playing at all.
JHS Punchline Demo
Neural Quad Cortex Demo
Hey I couldn't resist. Just ordered it. Should be able to give a report back in about a week. I've gone through a few different DI's this year, so am excited to hear it!
That is for my reverse P pickup equipped bass.
For my J bridge pickup wired directly to the output jack socket equipped bass it's:
->> EHX Black Finger (tube driven optical compressor, with 2 preamp tubes operating at proper high 300V plate voltage, primarily functioning as a tube preamp stage, driven to just at the edge of the tubes's breakup point, but with some very subtle compression dialed in as well) ->> Boss LS-2 [A+B Mix <-> Bypass] (parallel effect loops mixer/switch) ={ [Loop A Send] ->> Joyo Oxford Sound (clone of the Tech 21 Oxford, which is an all analog emulation of an Orange Amp type preamp, dialed in to deliver a low gain overdrive, always used blended with "clean" signal from parallel effects [Loop B]) ->> [Loop A Return] ->|+|<- [Loop B Send] ->> ([Loops B] empty, used to blend in "clean" signal) ->> [Loop B Return] ([Loop A] + [Loop B] mixed at an approximate 50/50 ratio) => [LS-2 Output] }=>->> One Control Crimson Red Preamp (sort of used as an all analog 1x15" cab simulator, Volume: Max - Gain and Brilliance: Noon) ->> ART Tube MP Project Series (tube preamp and DI, with build in HPF, fixed @ 40Hz, engaged, tube driven to just on the verge of breakup point) ->>
