I agree. The widely spaced pickups on the 4005 are certainly more versatile sonically than most people would think.
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The Hossenfeffer V Bass Build
- Thread starter Gilmourisgod
- Start date
Ok, here's a double cat eye, no pickguard, 32" scale version with 24 frets. I think this one works pretty well too. The bridge pup is shown at 1" off the bridge for no particular reason than it looks about right. Getting there? Still not sure about controls location, I'll mess around with different placements until it looks right. I tend to want the volume knob close, but out of the way. I'm not a constant knob-fiddler.
Yeah, might be the Chicken Dinner with a little more tweaking. Then I have to figure out how to chamber it or do internal bracing It's not a floating bridge, so I'd need solid wood under at least the bridge. Hey @nixdad, where did you find that x-brace photo? I thought I saw it in the 4005 thread, can't seem to find it, did a google images search, no luck. Do you happen to know, what is the body thickness on the 4005? 1-1/2"?
I believe I Googled "Rickenbacker 4005 X-bracing" and "Rickenbacker 4005 project" and reviewed the related images.
Yes - 4005 body thickness is 1 1/2 inches.
Ok.... starting to develop the actual working drawings. @nixdad hooked me up with some photos of past and current shots of the internal bracing of the 4005. The Old version was traditional x-bracing, the new is CNC where the braces are just body wood left in place to form the X pattern, as opposed to added pieces later. This seems to make more sense as far as a router operation with templates, but I've never built a semi-hollow before.
I like how the current CNC version "encapsulates" the neck tenon on three sides, seems like that would be LOT stronger. Notice that the braces and the "scoop" at the heel don't extend the full depth of the bass, looks like they terminate something like 1/4-3/8" shy of the back plate to create some "soundbox" effect. The neck tenon surround is full depth to allow the back plate to be glued to the back of the neck tenon, this seems plenty strong.
My double cat-eye layout suggests a symetrical X-brace design. In this version, I'm showing a 3/4" wide edge all around for gluing the back plate on, the braces are shown as 3/8" wide.
I have a Tune-O- Matic stryle bridge with two posts recessed into the body, so I'm showing 1" dia. wood supporting them. Might just use actual 1" dia. dowels for this. Am I better off just connecting the two posts with one continuous piece of wood?
I'll have to have a rear control access cover, not shown here yet, probably a custom shape.
Again, this is just first draft, if anyone who's built a semi-hollow has some advice, by all means weigh-in, this is a first for me.
@nixdad
I Hate to keep pestering you for info but.... how thick is the body at heel, where it's been "scooped out" to make room for the trapeze tailpiece? Looks like maybe 1" thick, so the "scoop" is something like 1/2" deep?
I like how the current CNC version "encapsulates" the neck tenon on three sides, seems like that would be LOT stronger. Notice that the braces and the "scoop" at the heel don't extend the full depth of the bass, looks like they terminate something like 1/4-3/8" shy of the back plate to create some "soundbox" effect. The neck tenon surround is full depth to allow the back plate to be glued to the back of the neck tenon, this seems plenty strong.
My double cat-eye layout suggests a symetrical X-brace design. In this version, I'm showing a 3/4" wide edge all around for gluing the back plate on, the braces are shown as 3/8" wide.
I have a Tune-O- Matic stryle bridge with two posts recessed into the body, so I'm showing 1" dia. wood supporting them. Might just use actual 1" dia. dowels for this. Am I better off just connecting the two posts with one continuous piece of wood?
I'll have to have a rear control access cover, not shown here yet, probably a custom shape.
Again, this is just first draft, if anyone who's built a semi-hollow has some advice, by all means weigh-in, this is a first for me.
@nixdad
I Hate to keep pestering you for info but.... how thick is the body at heel, where it's been "scooped out" to make room for the trapeze tailpiece? Looks like maybe 1" thick, so the "scoop" is something like 1/2" deep?
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Looking at wiring options, I think this one makes most sense for me, and maintains a total of (3) controls: Pickup Selector/Master Volume/Push/Pull Tone
The push/pull tone pot does the coil splitting. This video seems to explain it fairly well for the er... Electronically Challenged.... the only hard part will be identifying and getting the "North" and "South" pole wires correctly located for each pickup. Hopefully these come with a more legible diagram, can't read this online.
PS, what's the recommended value for the Tone capacitor, .022uf?
The push/pull tone pot does the coil splitting. This video seems to explain it fairly well for the er... Electronically Challenged.... the only hard part will be identifying and getting the "North" and "South" pole wires correctly located for each pickup. Hopefully these come with a more legible diagram, can't read this online.
PS, what's the recommended value for the Tone capacitor, .022uf?
So here's the final drawing, gotta get in the truck and go score some hard maple. The closest place to me that has decent kiln-dried stock is over an hour away, but they have EVERYTHING, including some exotics. I look online every time, but the prices may me choke on my oatmeal. I buy rough sawn stock and dress it myself. I only have a 6" jointer, but I built a router sled that can do 10" widths, so I'll make a two-piece body and flatten the two halves in my router sled, both approx. 8" wide, and then flatten the other side in my lunchbox planer. I'll build some templates and hog out all the negative space with a forstner and then route it down to a depth that leaves the top 1/4" thick. The back plate will also be 1/4", two piece maple. Since I'll be painting this one, just plain flat-sawn lumber........ Unless I decide to do a flame maple neck with a walnut skunk stripe with a painted body. Would that look odd? I do prefer unpainted necks with an oil finish, but the body is going to be British Racing Green for sure. I may just go with rattlecans on this one, plenty of canned auto an model paint in BRG available.
Need some advice on the set neck joint:
I've never done a set neck before, only bolt-on or neck-through. Most of them seem to be designed to be removable, glued in with hyde glue. In that case, is my neck tenon TOO deep? At the deepest point it's around 4-1/4" into the body. Unlike most other semi-hollows, where the neck tenon gets partly hogged out by the neck pickup, these pickups will "float" on the top, just screwed in and held slightly above the top with rubber grommets, so the adjustment height range is pretty limited. This has the effect of raising fingerboard almost 3/4" above the body, but that's how 4005's are built too.
Any comments/advice on the control placement? I kind of agonized over it. Given how close they are to the lower cat-eye, I thought they should respond to that curve rather than simple straight-line setup. I'm just doing a simple cover on the back, but maybe I should make it a little bigger so I can get my fingers in there to pull wire? I'll have to add some dowels to pick up attachment for screws or magnets for the cover.
Need some advice on the set neck joint:
I've never done a set neck before, only bolt-on or neck-through. Most of them seem to be designed to be removable, glued in with hyde glue. In that case, is my neck tenon TOO deep? At the deepest point it's around 4-1/4" into the body. Unlike most other semi-hollows, where the neck tenon gets partly hogged out by the neck pickup, these pickups will "float" on the top, just screwed in and held slightly above the top with rubber grommets, so the adjustment height range is pretty limited. This has the effect of raising fingerboard almost 3/4" above the body, but that's how 4005's are built too.
Any comments/advice on the control placement? I kind of agonized over it. Given how close they are to the lower cat-eye, I thought they should respond to that curve rather than simple straight-line setup. I'm just doing a simple cover on the back, but maybe I should make it a little bigger so I can get my fingers in there to pull wire? I'll have to add some dowels to pick up attachment for screws or magnets for the cover.
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- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
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I'm cavalier, so I make my tenons as long as possible and just glue 'em right in with Titebond. Of course, before actually applying glue, I dry-fit as many times as necessary to ensure that all of my dimensions and measurements are correct, in all three planes.
Love the control layout following the cat-eye! I would probably slide them down a bit, as I never liked the top knob being so close to the strings.
Love the control layout following the cat-eye! I would probably slide them down a bit, as I never liked the top knob being so close to the strings.
I'm curious what people pay for lumber, I got this piece of kiln-dried hard maple, 1-1/2" thick a 8-1/2" wide x 10' long for $90 at Readers Harwood Supply in East Taunton MA. They have a pretty big inventory, and everything a guitar builder could want, but none of it cheap. The space is entirely enclosed and sort of semi-heated.
At any rate, this piece came surfaced on two sides, with rough edges, which made things a bit easier since I only have a 6" jointer.
readershardwoodsupply.com
Glued up (with dowels to register it. ) into a 1.5" thick x 16" x22" blank. and this sucker is HEAVY. Into the router sled to get it perfectly flat and level.
Templates. I feel a little wasteful cutting out all this wood, but... the extra wood "bridges" extending across the width of the bass are just for temporary router baseplate support, that will get cut out eventually.
\
With most of the waste hogged out with various forstners. Tedious work.
I also finally got around to building a radius jig so I can radius my own boards, though I'm still having the fret slots cut by Others.
At any rate, this piece came surfaced on two sides, with rough edges, which made things a bit easier since I only have a 6" jointer.
Reader's Hardwood Supply
Where you, the woodworker, can select your stock from our bins for your next masterpiece!
readershardwoodsupply.com
Glued up (with dowels to register it. ) into a 1.5" thick x 16" x22" blank. and this sucker is HEAVY. Into the router sled to get it perfectly flat and level.
Templates. I feel a little wasteful cutting out all this wood, but... the extra wood "bridges" extending across the width of the bass are just for temporary router baseplate support, that will get cut out eventually.
With most of the waste hogged out with various forstners. Tedious work.
I also finally got around to building a radius jig so I can radius my own boards, though I'm still having the fret slots cut by Others.
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- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,737
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
oooo nice radius jig. I get really tired of using those sanding blocks, and I use a 20" radius.....
Damn, that was a whole lot of sawdust. I think I topped out my dust collector. Not my best routing job, but only a little of this will ever be visible through the Cateye holes. I think I'll paint the inside flat black. I used the current Ric method (I bet it's a WHOLE lot faster with CNC) of hogging away everything that isn't a brace or bridge support out of a solid block of maple. Wasteful as hell, but seems really rigid. the "braces" are approx. 3/8" wide x 3/4" tall. The two 1" diameter cylinders are the posts for tune-o-matic style. The back plate will glued to them, and it's all face grain, so i hope thios will be stronger than using end-grain dowels. I left the top 1/4" thick, has a little "tap tone" going on it already, so I'm hopeful I'll get at least as much unplugged acoustic volume as a real 4005. The big uncarved section at the heel is for the carved top area under the trapeze bridge.
And here's my high-tech clamping system for the 1/4" thick back plates. i used the "masking tape method" to hold it together instead of bar clamps, seemed like I got good glue squeezout. Next up I'll start building the neck, I won't cut the neck pocket till that's done.
And here's my high-tech clamping system for the 1/4" thick back plates. i used the "masking tape method" to hold it together instead of bar clamps, seemed like I got good glue squeezout. Next up I'll start building the neck, I won't cut the neck pocket till that's done.
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- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,737
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Body Template
Cat eyes cut. These are going to be a cast-iron bi*ch to bind.
Control cavity recess and cover plate cut. I'll add some dowels inside the body at each end for screws.
Need some advice:
Since this will be set-net, there isn't any easy way to paint this unless I hang it from the headstock, which isn't ideal to prevent paint runs. Thinking maybe I do the neck unpainted, with a painted headstock face and Tru-Oil on the neck shaft. Then just mask the neck during body paint. That would allow me to paint this horizontal. Suggestions?
Cat eyes cut. These are going to be a cast-iron bi*ch to bind.
Control cavity recess and cover plate cut. I'll add some dowels inside the body at each end for screws.
Need some advice:
Since this will be set-net, there isn't any easy way to paint this unless I hang it from the headstock, which isn't ideal to prevent paint runs. Thinking maybe I do the neck unpainted, with a painted headstock face and Tru-Oil on the neck shaft. Then just mask the neck during body paint. That would allow me to paint this horizontal. Suggestions?
After a bit of agonizing and procrastination, I decided to go with a painted neck to match the original 4005, so I'm just doing a two-piece neck for this one, using lumber from the same board as the body. I decided to epoxy this one, rather than Tightbond, hoping that will be a joint with no tendency to "creep", and only one joint to telegraph through the paint. I'll do my usual single DA rod plus (2) 1/8" x 5/16" x 24" CF bars, one either side of the rod. Bitterroot Guitars has both, probably get it from them.
"Cup Up"
"Cup Up"
Neck beam came out of the clamps solid and straight. Whew! I am always a little nervous with epoxy, I've had it inexplicably not fully cure on me, even using the West System metered pumps. They can get clogged or spit air and screw up the mix.... but not this time! Next up is truss rod and CF rod slots. I used a 24" rod on the last build, and it was really tight length-wise, I think I'll do a 22" one this time, since they don't do much beyond the 12th fret anyway. the CF rods are 18". Have to order the parts, so probably nothing to show for a couple weeks.
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FYI forget about Bitterroot Guitars, they have raised their prices and made the cheapest shipping option something like $19, which is a little too blatant price padding for my blood. In no universe does it cost $19 to ship less than 1lb of trussrod and a couple CF rods. I ended up getting one of the Stewmac low profile rods and a couple CF bars on Amazon for less, amazingly. Stewmac is notorious for S&H price padding too, but less than Bitterroot, I guess.
Ok, the Holiday frenzy is over, 5 lbs. heavier and my wallet lightened considerably. Time to do some sh#$.
Got the neck template and a neck pocket jig made. In retrospect shoulda made it wider. No worries, plenty of MDF scrap kicking around. Neck template fits the pocket jig with light hand pressure, so that looks good. I was thinking about making the neck removable by some future luthier, but in this configuration, it will be effectively dovetailed in, glued to top and bottom body plates plus solid wood either side so.... replacing this neck is going to involve a saw, hopefully never my saw.
And got the neck blank routed for the trussrod and 2 CF rods. These are a couple shorter ones I bought for a guitar project that never materialized, so I put them in. I'm not 100% clear on the concept, but it seemed like biasing them towards the heel end would add stiffness to the area where the neck flys free of the body. Hopefully works as intended. The rod is one of Stewmac's "Low Profile" rods, which looks identical to all the other blue-taped wrapped, 4MM hex adjust trussrods out there, except more expensive. I got this one a little cheaper than standard Stremac online sales, so figured I'd give it a try.
Next up gotta cut the headstock angle on the end of the neck beam and glue on some wings. I planned on an 8 degree angle for this, what are other people using?
I'm going to start a separate thread on fret slot cutting jigs, it's time I built one. Sending one a fingerboard to be slotted today, but I need to do this myself from now on.
Got the neck template and a neck pocket jig made. In retrospect shoulda made it wider. No worries, plenty of MDF scrap kicking around. Neck template fits the pocket jig with light hand pressure, so that looks good. I was thinking about making the neck removable by some future luthier, but in this configuration, it will be effectively dovetailed in, glued to top and bottom body plates plus solid wood either side so.... replacing this neck is going to involve a saw, hopefully never my saw.
And got the neck blank routed for the trussrod and 2 CF rods. These are a couple shorter ones I bought for a guitar project that never materialized, so I put them in. I'm not 100% clear on the concept, but it seemed like biasing them towards the heel end would add stiffness to the area where the neck flys free of the body. Hopefully works as intended. The rod is one of Stewmac's "Low Profile" rods, which looks identical to all the other blue-taped wrapped, 4MM hex adjust trussrods out there, except more expensive. I got this one a little cheaper than standard Stremac online sales, so figured I'd give it a try.
Next up gotta cut the headstock angle on the end of the neck beam and glue on some wings. I planned on an 8 degree angle for this, what are other people using?
I'm going to start a separate thread on fret slot cutting jigs, it's time I built one. Sending one a fingerboard to be slotted today, but I need to do this myself from now on.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,737
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
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