The Major Fourth

[Imaginary Pony]

I have NEVER said, "You must play the 4th on Beat1". I'm not afraid of that "AVOID" 4th.

Good, because that's what you should try to avoid.

This morning, I took a simple 8th Beat Drum pattern and used that 4th on Beat 2 in D major, with some double stops - G (the 4th) 12th fret on the G string & D 12th fret on the D string.

Yes, on the second beat, as a 16th note semi quaver passing note, just as others have advised. Well done!

Here is my using of that "avoid" 4th in D major (no adds) with a very simple 8th Rock drum pattern.

http://www.talkbass.com/attachments...0/?temp_hash=65bf0829a87d510d822417a2b9ef49f2

Again, nice riff, but as you hang on the same chord, without any movement, it's not really relevant to the thread.

 

[Lobster11]

Again, nice riff, but as you hang on the same chord, without any movement, it's not really relevant to the thread.

I thought the thread was about which notes(s) to avoid using while playing over a given chord, no?

Speaking of that question, I'd like to hear what people think about my suggestion, a few posts above, that the reason the 4th of a major scale is potentially problematic (i.e., an "avoid note") is because it is a tritone away from the maj7th chord tone.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

I thought the thread was about which notes(s) to avoid using while playing over a given chord, no?

Yes, but if you only play one chord all the time, then you can more or less play the chromatic scale. As long as the "avoid notes" are used as passing tones, you can do more or less anything over a drone. Proof of 4ths being used musically is easy to find, for example just in a simple blues turnaround in G which ends on G;C;C#;D (1;4;4#;5) or D;C;B;A / G (5;4;3;2 / 1)

It's what you do with, how you use and where you go which depends on whether the 4th is useable.

Speaking of that question, I'd like to hear what people think about my suggestion, a few posts above, that the reason the 4th of a major scale is potentially problematic (i.e., an "avoid note") is because it is a tritone away from the maj7th chord tone.

That's quite possible, but the blue note 4# is already known as "The Devil's Tritone" and gives the Blues its distinct flavour.

The more banal explanation is it's tendency to change the chord.

In the I chord, the 4th is the root not of the IV chord, and unless you want to go there, don't play it on the 1 or 3 beat.
On the IV chord, the 4th is an augmented 4th (F# in G when playing a C chord). Playing an F# would simply be playing the M7 of G, which would change the coulour of your line if not quickly resolved, probably to G.
The 4th of your V chord is the Home Root of your Key, and sounds like you've come full circle.

 

[Groove Master]

I thought the thread was about which notes(s) to avoid using while playing over a given chord, no?

Speaking of that question, I'd like to hear what people think about my suggestion, a few posts above, that the reason the 4th of a major scale is potentially problematic (i.e., an "avoid note") is because it is a tritone away from the maj7th chord tone.

You're saying regarding the F (4) over the whole scale of C, unless you are talking about a CMaj7 over F which would sound bad indeed with the presence of the tritone in an awkward place in the chord construction. But the same tritone can be find in a better place like this G7/F .

Also I noted the C/F, this is a great voicing that implies a FMaj9 (no 3rd).

 

[Lobster11]

You're saying regarding the F (4) over the whole scale of C, unless you are talking about a CMaj7 over F which would sound bad indeed with the presence of the tritone in an awkward place in the chord construction. But the same tritone can be find in a better place like this G7/F .

Also I noted the C/F, this is a great voicing that implies a FMaj9 (no 3rd).

Yeah, I was just talking about playing over a plain-ol' Cmaj7 chord, where the F (4) represents a tritone relative to the B (7). Sharping the 4 solves the problem, which is why the Lydian mode is favored by a lot of players over a maj7th chord. Of course, sharping the 4 just moves the tritone, which is now between the #4 and the root, but in that context it sounds like a cool, slightly "out" note rather than an ugly clash.

Consistent with this, it also seems to me (tho others might disagree) that the 4 doesn't sound nearly as bad over a plain major triad chord (say, C) as it does over a maj7 chord (Cmaj7); instead, the "outness" of the sharp 4 really stands out against such a chord. Also, the 4 doesn't sound bad over a dominant chord (e.g., C7) either, where the tritone is now between two chord tones and makes the chord itself sound unstable.

 

[Imaginary Pony]

with the bass trying to get those "avoid-under-any-circumstances" 4th's.

What's strange is that nobody apart from you says "avoid-under-any-circumstances" 4th's. You really don't need to be absolutist about this. You're not going to prove that anyone is wrong here, because you're arguing against a point which hasn't been made.

Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

1. Person 1 asserts proposition X.
2. Person 2 argues against a false but superficially similar proposition Y, as if that were an argument against X.

This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

 

[Lobster11]

What's strange is that nobody apart from you says "avoid-under-any-circumstances" 4th's. Y

Yes, and I certainly wasn't saying that myself. If you (whousedtoplay) are trying to disprove that 4ths are to be "avoided under any circumstance," you're definitely arguing against a straw man, or tilting at windmills, or whatever metaphor you prefer. I don't think anybody would deny that you can sneak in a 4 as a quick sixteenth-note on the way to something else.