The More I Know

[noeinstein]

The more I realize I don't know.

I guess I could have posted this in other forums because it applies in lots of places, but today I'm overwhelmed by what I don't know about playing my own instrument. A friend of mine used to describe his general fund of knowledge as "a mile wide and an inch deep." I don't think that quite describes my knowledge of theory, fretboard, reading bass clef, etc. but it's close. And it's frustrating.

Like a lot of musicians I have some ADD and my musical education reflects it. I don't know how many music/bass instruction books I have laying around here, I've had different teachers, and I've taken some online/YouTube instruction here and there. I jump from one thing to another. So, last year I decided to dedicate myself to completing one of Ariane Cap's courses. But when I finished I hadn't improved like I expected.

I'd like to find a teacher who can accurately assess my current strengths and weaknesses and make an instruction plan with that in mind, along with a clearly defined goal and markers along the way to gauge my progress. I'll keep searching.

Just venting I guess and writing helps me understand my own frustration a little better. And it's comforting to know there is empathetic ear somewhere out there. Thanks!

 

[Slade N]

My story is similar to yours, I have learned you get out what you put in. That refers to not only the amount of effort but the quality and method of that effort. Learn to maximize what works for how you learn a d exploit that approach. The answer is in the mirror

 

[mambo4]

Anthony Wellington had a great “Four Levels of Awareness” talk about this,
at the end of Victor Wooten's Groove Workshop DVD
sadly it was pulled from you tube a few years back, for copyright reasons.

briefly the 4 states are
- Unconscious Not-Knowing: you don't know what you don't know, playing just for joy, a blissful state
- Conscious Not-Knowing: You gain awareness of how much you don't know: not blissful
- Conscious Knowing: You learn a bunch of stuff, but are tripped up applying it, or what remains unknown: not blissful
- Unconscious Knowing: You know it so well you no longer need to think, it is instinct: a blissful state

After describing these states, he likens them to four rooms in a house
but: this house has no walls, you are free to move from one room to the next at any time

Even if all you know is the C major scale,
you can know it so well that you can play it without thinking about it,
and access that blissful state.

Frustration at what you don't yet know
is only one possible state of mind
out of what is available to you in any given moment
Don't forget to play stuff that is simple, stupid, and beneath you, and enjoy the heck out of it!

 

[Wannabebass]

I figure being a mile wide and an inch deep makes for a solid base. Now comes the hard work of building up. As someone much wiser than me once said “it’s not about willpower, it’s about priorities- don’t beat yourself up for not reaching a goal. When that goal becomes important enough, you will reach it”
Great idea to find a teacher for a check-in or maybe to help you decide on a new technique or genre to focus on. I just had a first lesson with a new teacher and it was a great eye-opener.
I’m also interested in your experience with the Ariane Cap books. I’ve just started the pattern system and it’s definitely not a walk in the park!
Growth and learning ain’t always step by step, sometimes you get stuck and then leap forward!

 

[noeinstein]

Great points, thanks.

I was drawn to Ariane bc of a mutual interest in neurolinguistic programming, which I have thought of as an especially effective way of teaching and learning. Her method is well thought out and, I think, evidence based. So, i’m not ready to give up on her just yet.

I haven’t started the pattern system, so I hope you’ll comment in more depth.

 

[Malcolm35]

The Ariane system is mentioned, in a positive way, throughout TB. However, I have not used any of her books/lessons, etc. No reason beyond I already was going down another route. Namely the "Bass for Dummies" book and using anything written by Ed Friedland. That said, I have used a pattern system for 25 years and highly recommend it.

The pattern system to me is hear, or see a passage, chord or scale and know which pattern will give that sound. My point; embrace Patterns.

Having chord charts or fake chord sheet music gets to the point quickly and can be used to tell you what scale, chord or arpeggio is being used until your ear cuts in.

Good luck.​

 

[noeinstein]

The Ariane system is mentioned, in a positive way, throughout TB. However, I have not used any of her books/lessons, etc. No reason beyond I already was going down another route. Namely the "Bass for Dummies" book and using anything written by Ed Friedland. That said, I have used a pattern system for 25 years and highly recommend it.

The pattern system to me is hear, or see a passage, chord or scale and know which pattern will give that sound. My point; embrace Patterns.

Having chord charts or fake chord sheet music gets to the point quickly and can be used to tell you what scale, chord or arpeggio is being used until your ear cuts in.

Good luck.​

Your thoughts are always appreciated!

 

[DJ Bebop]

The more I realize I don't know.

I guess I could have posted this in other forums because it applies in lots of places, but today I'm overwhelmed by what I don't know about playing my own instrument. A friend of mine used to describe his general fund of knowledge as "a mile wide and an inch deep." I don't think that quite describes my knowledge of theory, fretboard, reading bass clef, etc. but it's close. And it's frustrating.

Like a lot of musicians I have some ADD and my musical education reflects it. I don't know how many music/bass instruction books I have laying around here, I've had different teachers, and I've taken some online/YouTube instruction here and there. I jump from one thing to another. So, last year I decided to dedicate myself to completing one of Ariane Cap's courses. But when I finished I hadn't improved like I expected.

I'd like to find a teacher who can accurately assess my current strengths and weaknesses and make an instruction plan with that in mind, along with a clearly defined goal and markers along the way to gauge my progress. I'll keep searching.

Just venting I guess and writing helps me understand my own frustration a little better. And it's comforting to know there is empathetic ear somewhere out there. Thanks!

You don't know what you don't know

 

[Dincrest]

It's always been said to me that a key indicator of intelligence is realizing that "the more I learn, the more I realize I know nothing" because then, that encourages the pursuit of learning to fill in those gaps.... but the more you learn you realize you know nothing so you need to learn more... let learning be a drug of choice. Best drug ever! It actually stimulated my brain cells instead of killing them.

I figure other people on TalkBass would offer more practical insight, but I just wanted to wax philosophical, because methinks the OP knows more than he thinks he does.

 

[noeinstein]

It's always been said to me that a key indicator of intelligence is realizing that "the more I learn, the more I realize I know nothing" because then, that encourages the pursuit of learning to fill in those gaps.... but the more you learn you realize you know nothing so you need to learn more... let learning be a drug of choice. Best drug ever! It actually stimulated my brain cells instead of killing them.

I figure other people on TalkBass would offer more practical insight, but I just wanted to wax philosophical, because methinks the OP knows more than he thinks he does.

Haha... sometimes I think I'm on my way to knowing nothing at all.

 

[noeinstein]

You don't know what you don't know

Are you sure?

 

[mike buzzetti]

1st thing is learn to GROOVE !! after that its cheese cake ?? ,

I learned gtr and bass at the same time , the key for me was the MODES there are 6 of them and they connect the fretboard , learn the patterns ( and pent. vers. ) and you will have 100 % access to the fretboard in any key.

On bass I mainly use Pent. modes and add notes as needed as well as chromatic passing tones.

 

[H K]

Havent tried it personally, but scott's bass lessons gets a pretty good rep.
They also have included a weekly (I think) 1 on 1 with a teacher through video chat. He will assess your playing and help you set goals

 

[aero58]

....today I'm overwhelmed by what I don't know about playing my own instrument....

How long have you been playing?

 

[noeinstein]

How long have you been playing?

I began at about 13 and played until early 20s. Then life happened and I picked it up again about 20 years ago. So you could say I've played 25-30 years. But don't confuse that with 25-30 years' experience because I'm pretty sure I've had the same year of experience at least a dozen times

 

[mike buzzetti]

Havent tried it personally, but scott's bass lessons gets a pretty good rep.
They also have included a weekly (I think) 1 on 1 with a teacher through video chat. He will assess your playing and help you set goals

Scott seems to be very technique oriented , I like what he does and how he shows you what he is doing ( never taken a lesson from him ) but he is easy to understand and knows his stuff IMO .

 

[ariane]

Ari here, author of said books/course.

Cool thread, all. Lots of great comments about learning and what it takes!

It inspired me to a longer answer that I turned into a blog post for my blog.
-> [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] <-

I understand that additional guidance can be very helpful to keep one's focus in a self-guided course, it's the reason why I added a live component to the course. If you'd like to audit this class for free, click below.

I have an advanced and a basic/beginner version running right now. Everyone is on zoom and I give you feedback if you'd like it. Happy for you to just lurk and learn.

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God grooving!
Ari

 

[Fred Pucci]

The more I realize I don't know.

I guess I could have posted this in other forums because it applies in lots of places, but today I'm overwhelmed by what I don't know about playing my own instrument. A friend of mine used to describe his general fund of knowledge as "a mile wide and an inch deep." I don't think that quite describes my knowledge of theory, fretboard, reading bass clef, etc. but it's close. And it's frustrating.

Like a lot of musicians I have some ADD and my musical education reflects it. I don't know how many music/bass instruction books I have laying around here, I've had different teachers, and I've taken some online/YouTube instruction here and there. I jump from one thing to another. So, last year I decided to dedicate myself to completing one of Ariane Cap's courses. But when I finished I hadn't improved like I expected.

I'd like to find a teacher who can accurately assess my current strengths and weaknesses and make an instruction plan with that in mind, along with a clearly defined goal and markers along the way to gauge my progress. I'll keep searching.

Just venting I guess and writing helps me understand my own frustration a little better. And it's comforting to know there is empathetic ear somewhere out there. Thanks!

I am surprised to hear that you didn't see and improvement after completing Ariane's course. When I retired 6 years ago and had more time for my bass, I decided to plug a few holes in my playing - specifically with respect to theory, technique and fretboard knowledge. I was an "OK" player, but being self-taught I knew in order to plug these holes I needed help. Fortunately, I came across Ari's Theory book, and then the online course that goes with it, and I saw great improvement and realized significant steps forward in my playing.
I believed so much in her and her teaching, that I reached out to her and after several back-and-forths, I am now part of her coaching team that supports students in her "Cohort". So, beside my own personal experience with her materials and methods, I have heard from countless students on how much they've improved as a result of the cohort/course. And I've seen it and heard it for myself in their video homework assignments that they submit for the course.
But I know everyone learns differently and in your case it sounds like you might benefit from direct feedback and accountability. I assume you know about Ari's "practice groups" - live classes with real-time feedback from her, and the once a year "cohort" with weekly homework and community support and encouragement as you go through the course. To be clear, I am not here to "sell" you on any of it, but I did want to share a different POV on Ariane's material. I wish you nothing but the best in your bass journey, sir!

 

[noeinstein]

I am surprised to hear that you didn't see and improvement after completing Ariane's course. When I retired 6 years ago and had more time for my bass, I decided to plug a few holes in my playing - specifically with respect to theory, technique and fretboard knowledge. I was an "OK" player, but being self-taught I knew in order to plug these holes I needed help. Fortunately, I came across Ari's Theory book, and then the online course that goes with it, and I saw great improvement and realized significant steps forward in my playing.
I believed so much in her and her teaching, that I reached out to her and after several back-and-forths, I am now part of her coaching team that supports students in her "Cohort". So, beside my own personal experience with her materials and methods, I have heard from countless students on how much they've improved as a result of the cohort/course. And I've seen it and heard it for myself in their video homework assignments that they submit for the course.
But I know everyone learns differently and in your case it sounds like you might benefit from direct feedback and accountability. I assume you know about Ari's "practice groups" - live classes with real-time feedback from her, and the once a year "cohort" with weekly homework and community support and encouragement as you go through the course. To be clear, I am not here to "sell" you on any of it, but I did want to share a different POV on Ariane's material. I wish you nothing but the best in your bass journey, sir!

Thank you Fred. I appreciate your comments and point of view. I took Ari's Core Principles course, actually I went through it twice. I have her Music Theory book, but I have not spent much time on the videos and lessons associated with that, but I intend to. So there's no misunderstanding, I have great respect for Ari's work. The fact that I didn't progress as much as I had hoped says more about me than about her work, which I will continue to use. This post has netted some very interesting responses, one from Ari herself. And another interesting response came in a PM about lessons via Zoom. I had my first one today and I think it's a good fit. Thanks Tim.

 

[Wannabebass]

Good news, OP, glad you are finding a path forward!
I would also encourage everyone to check Ms Cap’s blog post on this subject- a very comprehensive and thoughtful response!