The newbie's catch 22

[Stumbo]

"i have played with bass players in the past who didn't need to hear anything from me and could start playing the song immediately."

What?

So after 6 weeks of getting you up to speed, they dump you? I don't get that either. They were probably looking for replacements during that time and just used you to keep rehearsing.

Move on to bigger and better things.

 

[tycobb73]

The best thing you can do is continue looking for bands and go to open jams. There is no substitute for stage time and if you don't have a band at the moment go to open mics.

 

[TheBassPreacher]

I'd say good riddance. I don't know if I'm just jaded or whatever but that response just seems a bit fishy... and it seems odd they would accept you after the audition just to dump you shortly down the line because you don't have much experience (even though that should have been something figured out at the beginning instead of wasting both y'alls time).

Anyway I don't know if experience is necessary for joining a band... I joined my first band with 0 experience on bass and little experience on guitar, I had some friends who were starting a band and they needed a bass player so I volunteered... went down to the music store bought my first bass and amp and a month later was playing my first show.

Anyway if you liked the drummer as others have said, maybe hook up with him. Guitars are a dime a dozen, singers even more so, you shouldn't have much trouble finding them.

 

[cameltoe]

Sounds like they have ideas above their station mate, but I wouldn't take it to heart.
You will come across ego-maniacs in your musical career from time to time, people who think they are destined for greatness and so on. And by telling them you had only a few months experience was kind of working against you from the start, as every little mistake you made, or every time it took you slightly longer than the rest of the band to catch on to things, they would have noticed it more and put it down to your inexperience. thats crap though, because anyone joining a new band can't expect to have everything nailed after 6 weeks, it takes easily that long to learn the songs. What I can't understand though, is if they were changing the drummer (who had been around longer and they knew they didn't like him) why didn't they wait to see how you fitted in with the new drummer? Changing the drummer can have a big effect on your playing style, as you have to kind of adapt to each other's way of playing. It may have been that you and the old drummer didn't gel particularly well, but that may not have been your fault. even if it was, 6 weeks of playing with a new drummer is only just getting to know them.

One thing I will say though, is getting out there and playing with other musicians is where the real experience lies. You can learn as much as possible in your bedroom or with a teacher, but it's only when you get around other people that you really learn. It's like playing soccer- you can become the best player in the world in your own back garden, but it's only when you get to playing a match that you suddenly have to be aware of what everyone else is doing, and learn how to play with them, to get the best out of the team.

Get along to Jam nights, play with different drummers, and learn to become a rhythm section with the drummers, by locking together. It'll give you experience of learning songs on-the-spot as well, having a chord sheet thrust in your hand for a song you've never heard of, and having to rely on your ears to apply it to the song.

Give the drummer a call and practice with him, if nothing else. If you've only been playing with a band for 6 weeks then there is sh*t loads to learn about how to best to play around a drummer, hitting his accents or whatever.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much. In these situations it's sometimes that someone more 'experienced' has offered their services in the meantime, and that has turned out to be the more attractive option for them. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll fit in as well as you did though, but that's their mistake to figure out. I wouldn't be surprised if their new bassist has his own particular style which clashes horribly.

good luck

 

[Magickm20]

Things to remember:
1 How talented other musicians think or say you are doesn't necessarily make any difference. Personality mixture, musical goals, where the band members are in there lives, etc. is MUCH more important. Some of the most successful bands in rock history were compromised of mediocre musicians, at least during their beginnings.
2 The main objective is always having a good time. If you love playing the instrument, you'll get better naturally, as long as you keep playing it.
3 As far as being in a band, it seems like you'd be better off starting your own band with that drummer, or a friend, or whatever. Coming into a situation where people already have plans for you, especially as your first experience, is tough. Test the waters, and your creativity, but doing and playing what YOU want with friends, or other musicians of the same "caliber" per say.
4 Recognize your weaknesses as a bassplayer. This is very important. Recognize them, and then hammer them into the ground. The personal struggle of being a musician is always dealing with what you think you can't do.
5 Lastly, the world of music, no matter what success level, is dominated by different personalities. Work on your confidence, not your cockiness. Be confident, not necessarily in your playing great basslines, but in your ability to work with others, and carry your weight with the experience you have so far. Find an open mic, and go every single week. Find more than one, just keep going and playing, and you'll be just fine. Although sometimes taken as a joke, read about the beginnings of some of the 80's hairbands. Those guys were all about confidence and having a great time. Some of them, no matter how "cheesy" some people think they are, made tons of loot starting out in the same position you're in now! Rock on brother...

 

[CodaPDX]

I'm more of the sister variety, but whatev. Thanks for the advice, everyone. A lot of folks have suggested hitting up open mics - there's quite a few in the area, so that's no problem. I dunno about getting up and playing, though - I can hold down a groove pretty well, but going solo on bass (and not boring the crowd to death) is still outside of my capabilities. At best, I'd characterize my melodic chops as "randomly pentatonic."

 

[badstonebass]

They are dumbasses. There "explanation" sounds like the "it's not YOU it's ME" breakup.

Basically they say this

"You are a great player, you aren't good enough to be in this band." Talk about big heads.

Not that it matters, bands are a dime a dozen...especially for bassists.

 

[tZer]

Whatever you choose to do, it seems like you've got a fantastic temperament and that'll take you much further than being a killer chopsmaster with an attitude ever will.

Don't be discouraged and move on from this situation - file it away as 'lessons learned'. You've gotten all the value out of it you can which many people wouldn't be able to do, so again, keep that great attitude!

Like others have said, hook up with some like-minded, comparably skilled players and get your own thing rolling. Nothing like putting your band out there next year and having those bozos start to see you and your band getting attention. Not that you should even care about revenge (and you don't seem to be the sort to seek it), but wouldn't that be sweet?

Keep it up!

 

[Silas Martinez]

A lot of folks have suggested hitting up open mics - there's quite a few in the area, so that's no problem. I dunno about getting up and playing, though - I can hold down a groove pretty well, but going solo on bass (and not boring the crowd to death) is still outside of my capabilities. At best, I'd characterize my melodic chops as "randomly pentatonic."

Look for open jams, not open mic nights. Typically, there is a host band, and a backline at the venue, and you bring your bass, and sign up and play (with whoever happens to be there). Lots of experience playing with different folks and learning different styles to be gotten that way.

 

[xgator4u]

Welcome to life in bands. In my experience, everybody thinks that progressing the direction they're progressing is "good". What I mean is that you may be getting better at playing in the pocket and locking in with a drummer. The guitarist may be working on alternate tunings and weird music theory while having terrible timing. You both think you're better than the other.

(not trying to put words in your mouth, just explaining)

It's perfectly normal, that's why it's so rare to find bands that play the music you want, at the level you want, and require the time commitment you want, etc.

I guess my point is that you're doing nothing at all wrong, in fact you're way ahead of the game by handling being fired maturely, and just keep looking for the right band for you.

+1
My questions to you are: If you think the drummer was the best musician in the band, why not hook up with him. Anyone here can tell you, if the drummer and bassist get along the band is tight.
And if it ain't tight,,,it ain't right!
Also,IF the singer, and guitard were half as good as they thought they were, then why did they hire you and that "crappy" drummer in the first place?
I say good riddance.
Hook up with the drummer and forget about them.

 

[bonzo4880]

yeah just find a drummer get tight get a practice spot and you will have people lining up to audition for YOUR band. advertise yourselves as a rhythm section - i did that two years ago and literally had thirty emails in two days. ridiculous.

 

[John Wentzien]

Sounds to me like the singer & guitard were'nt as good as they thought they were---and it was easier to throw the blame on the rhytm section than face their own short-comings.
Grab the drummer and a good guitarist..

 

[Bass Viking]

that's really cool that you wanted to talk about this instead of getting defensive and angry. it says a lot about you that you want feedback. but the only thing i can say is that its just not the right time. i should have been more vocal about trying it out with you first and seeing where it goes instead of just saying "cool, you know how to play, let's go." i take the blame for that. you're not doing anything wrong whatsoever. its just that you are very new and it takes some time. its taken me about 7 years to get here and when i was only 7 months into it, like you, i understood that i wasn't bad, just needed to practice more. so basically where the singer and i are at is a place where we don't want to waste anymore time waiting for others to catch up. i have played with bass players in the past who didn't need to hear anything from me and could start playing the song immediately. but that's because they had been playing for 10+ years. you are already pretty good at that so that also says a lot about your ability. also, we just want someone with a bit more stage experience. so, i guess i can't say it enough but its not anything you were doing wrong. you did everything right. we just want to surround ourselves with very experienced, seasoned musicians. i don't know if our singer told you, but we also had to let the drummer go which was not easy. there are a lot of things there but the main thing was his focus, initiative and consistency. we can't have that. we felt held back. but he was experienced so it isn't just that. its a combination. you weren't like that at all but the experience thing is the issue. all really good bands surround themeselves with the best possible musicians. you are a fantastic musician and if you really want to do something like this, i see no reason you couldn't. but we just need a little more experience-that's all. but if you have any other questions or concerns, please let me know. thanks so much for everything.​

This set off my BS meter. It sounds like they're either being evasive, or they aren't talented or articulate enough to explain why they don't want you. My impression is that they're not as good as they think they are.

Plus I think they at least owed you an explanation in person/by phone instead of by email.

 

[fdeck]

Maybe they are only as good as they think they are, when they are being propped up by the drummer and bassist.

 

[Phil Smith]

You are lucky that they sent you an email explaining often times you don't get that. This is just an indicator that you need to do more work and invest more time and energy into it.

I don't know how complex their originals are but typically an experienced player can be ready to gig in one to two rehearsals.

I'm not looking to turn music into a career, but I would eventually like to be playing regular local gigs. Do any of you have any advice for bassists like me who are just starting out and having trouble getting past that Catch 22 of "gotta be in a band to get experience, but gotta have experience to get in a band?"

My advice to you is to recognize that this is a long term process and there will be a lot of bands that you'll audition for, get kicked out of, wash, rinse, repeat. Keep answering ads, keep auditioning, keep studying and keep playing it's a constant process that, again, takes a while. Eventually you'll be turning down bands because they're not as experienced as you because everyone is looking to play with people on their level or better.

 

[Lady Kayri]

Don't let it get you down. However, if you're good enough to play with them as long as you did, you're certainly good enough to at least fill in when another bass player gets sick, etc. My instructor told me that anytime I went to auditions, it's worth the time to tell the band that "even if you don't want me to play with you full time, I'm available to fill in if you ever need me." And I know a few people who've managed to eventually be asked to join bands full time after having filled in a few times, too. Think of every audition as gaining experience. I think I read in one interview that John Deacon had auditioned with about 20 or so other bands before he auditioned with Queen...

 

[XCincyBassMan]

I'm more of the sister variety, but whatev. Thanks for the advice, everyone. A lot of folks have suggested hitting up open mics - there's quite a few in the area, so that's no problem. I dunno about getting up and playing, though - I can hold down a groove pretty well, but going solo on bass (and not boring the crowd to death) is still outside of my capabilities. At best, I'd characterize my melodic chops as "randomly pentatonic."

The Open Mics/Open Jams aren't all about solo acts performing. A majority of them are a mixture of solo acts, bands and mixed groups (put together by the host). You can get up with a group of strangers or as a backup to a singer/songwriter/guitar player(s). After you have checked a couple out, you will have a better idea as to whether or not it's for you. There is the opportunity to network, but sometimes you will run into wankfests. It can be a crapshoot.

I believe your view on the talents of the singtard and guitard is very revealing. Unfortunately, you will see alot of that on your journey though Band World. I think you have a very healthy attitude and that will serve you well as you go on to bigger and better projects! Good Luck to you!

Russ

 

[Dfinch]

Yeah, I think that's probably the case, but for what it's worth, I wasn't really blown away with the guitarist or the singer. The guitarist was a decent songwriter with a good sense of rhythm and an obsession with alternate tunings, but didn't have much in the way of chops beyond banging out barre chords and picking out the occasional melodic line. The singer had a good voice, but she wasn't really all that charismatic or remarkable as a frontwoman. If anything, the drummer was the best musician in the band. In part, that's kinda what attracted me to the band in the first place - they weren't anything special, so I could fit right in and learn as much as I could while it lasted. Or so I thought. I dunno.

See your PM. I just wanted to add that, since I know who you're talking about, I completely agree with you.

It would have been a good practice gig for you to get your feet wet, but these two aren't as good as they think they are. They've put the pressure on themselves with a major move into a new market, and I'm sure they're feeling that pressure.

You still got a better deal than the drummer, since it looked like he had just relocated to follow them here.

 

[doggo]

Meh.

I'm a new (again, 20 years later) bass learner. But I've been around musicians & bands as a roadie and socially for that 20 years and watched the ebb and flow of careers.

I'd say treat any band you join through an audition as an experience waiting to end. It may be a good experience, or not. The band you start yourself is the one to put your heart and soul into. It you're playing other peoples' music, it's just that, other peoples' music. They have a lot more invested in the repertoire, and that's okay, they've earned it.

Besides, everyone knows the best bands were started by bass players (that's a joke, son, I say, that's a joke).

As for gigging, there's always a need for the rhythm section players.

 

[lament]

You still got a better deal than the drummer, since it looked like he had just relocated to follow them here.

ouch...