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The Obstacle Is The Way

ErikP.Bass

ErikP.Bass

Supporting Member
Nov 23, 2004
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2,103
#1
Borrowing this thread title from Ryan Holiday's book which I've haven't read yet but plan to before the end of the year.

In any case....I'm posting this thread because I'm curious to hear approaches/methods folks use to make sure they continue to develop once they've reached a beginner/intermediate plateau. This involves working on things that are challenging and uncomfortable, to the point where you might have to work something out note by note arhythmically and/or even melody and rhythm separately etc. More important than doing this occasionally is making sure that one is doing this consistently in every practice session as opposed to just playing....in short, the obstacle is the way. Please share your experiences!
 
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#4
Every time I feel comfortable with my level I do one of two things:
  • try to sight read something
  • listen to this:


Anthony covers so much that exposes holes in my knowledge of the instrument and music, there is always something to work on in there.

I also believe that focusing on execution drains attention from musical expression. If I have to think about where my fingers need to go on a conscious level, then I'm not listening and responding to the music on an emotional level. I aim to put all my attention on what the music is doing, not what my body is doing. In reality I have rarely if ever achieved this perfectly. So, no matter how well I know a piece I can always get some practice in, looking for passages where my mental focus has to move to plucking and fretting , because I haven't yet internalized the execution.
 
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#6
BassChuck said:
Listening to music that is unfamiliar.
Putting yourself in new playing situations.
Meeting and playing with new musicians.
Improving reading skills (a life long task).
Improving ear training skills (a life long task).
Take some music that you can play and do it in a different way (repeat as often as possible).
Never say no to a gig.
Click to expand...
I agree with all of these ... except the last. I'm offered gigs that do nothing for ME. Not enough money, wrong genre, incompetent musicians, band drama. I don't take 'em. On another note, technical virtuosity isn't necessarily a worthwhile goal. Once the basics are mastered (scales, basic theory, etc) it's about application. As a gigging player (two bands, and sub and fill-in) who is often playing with new people, in new places, songs that are played differently in each project, and often having little or no rehearsal before the gig ... ear training and exposure to a wide variety of music genres and styles is highest on the list. Of course, the definition of "intermediate level" is highly variable and subjective. :whistle:
 
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#7
RustyAxe said:
I agree with all of these ... except the last. I'm offered gigs that do nothing for ME. Not enough money, wrong genre, incompetent musicians, band drama. I don't take 'em. On another note, technical virtuosity isn't necessarily a worthwhile goal. Once the basics are mastered (scales, basic theory, etc) it's about application. As a gigging player (two bands, and sub and fill-in) who is often playing with new people, in new places, songs that are played differently in each project, and often having little or no rehearsal before the gig ... ear training and exposure to a wide variety of music genres and styles is highest on the list. Of course, the definition of "intermediate level" is highly variable and subjective. :whistle:
Click to expand...

I know well what you mean. For me, I've never played a gig that I didn't learn something. However, the reality of the negatives you've mentioned means that, yea, I turn down a gig with a group that has proved to be less than what I want to deal with. The one thing you didn't mention is reputation. It is unwise to be known to perform with musicians that are well below your level... only do it once.
 
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#9
I am out of touch a bit as I am not an active bassist in a band any longer (couch concert:bassist::D)

But when my band was together. it was the fuel for the fire. I got my technial chops up and tbh I just played cause it was fun and I was pretty good at it. this is with no real formal knowledge of the instrument, or music, or anything like that.
we gigged and had fun. I was in a rock-ish band, but we played a huge variety of song genres. many of which were a huge challenge and made me a much better player trying to emulate those band's tunes and lines.

After we went our ways. I started to get more into reading the staff and bought some books: Jazz Bass by Mel Bay, Walking basics by Ed ~one bad mutha~ Fuqua,:smug: I had some scales books and such. started to dive into the Music. learning about Melody and Harmony (bought a cheap Yamaha keyboard) working through scales and learning the fingerboard. and bought an ear training book.

I am still working on these things. not as actively and not as intensely. I don't gig anymore, but have been invited to a jam every now and again.

I think in the end. doing things that fulfill one as a musician is what one needs. and if they take the time to carve out some things to keep working on; and keep adding things to that list... then they will eventually find their way in this musical world. or at least have fun trying!

not sure how much this helps but I felt like replying today and not just reading.

Good Luck OP!
 
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#10
For me the answer seems to be working with a knee to knee instructor - keeps me improving and engaged. I need a course, plan, orientation point (where I am and where I'm going) - and it's gotta be in writing (aka; a book) AND someone to keep me disciplined. I need the pressure of specific tasks, objectives and deadlines. Good ones will also drive into areas you wouldn't naturally venture. There I've said it!
 
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#12
Whenever you practice some routine and think "I think I've got this down pretty good." continue that thought with "at least I don't have to do it in a much more difficult manner such as ________!" then start doing it that harder way.

You are totally allowed to create your own lessons in the absence of a teacher.

You might even stumble upon something original that other people wouldn't have thought possible by doing this.
 
#13
I don't worry about whether or not I'm improving; as the weakest player in my current band, every time I get down something challenging, they come right back at me with some Nathan Watts or Leonard Hubbard. Those guys make me sweat!
 
#14
OP, I'm not positive of the gist of the question. Is it what to do to improve at that point in your playing, or trying to master one musical piece? If it's the latter, breaking the song down into small segments of one measure or less helps. Try singing the part. If all else fails, try taking a break from it and coming back to it later. If the topic is the former, it depends. (That same stock answer again, D'oh!) Whatever the weak link in your musicianship as a whole is should be addressed first. If your timing is off, but you play all of the notes correctly, work on your timing. Fretless always needs a sharp skill set. In a rut? Put the bass down and search for musical excellence from obscure sources. Whatever snippets of musical information, styles, borrowed licks, etc. you can assimilate in to your sound will help distinguish you from all of the bassists who have the same set of influences. It would be the equivalent of an actor teaching himself different accents for characters. Using your mind and imagination to create your own motivation probably can't be taught, but it can be maximized. Whatever you do to prepare yourself for any other activity can successfully be used in musical situations. Sorry to ramble, and I hope this helps.
 
#18
- stop lusting for gear. It does nothing for you as a musician. It doesn't matter (though most posts in similar forums are about gear lol).

- suffer. Becoming good at something requires suffering. A lot of it. It isn't supposed to be pleasant. Seeking pleasure everywhere (i.e. dopamine shot) is 3 year old mentality. No pain, no gain. If your goal is mastery, you can't do it without suffering. If you don't suffer while practicing, you're doing it wrong and stay in your comfort zone.

- only the most disciplined of us will make it on their own. Most require strong external pressure, such as music school with tight exam schedule and despotic teacher. If you're one of the procrastinating types, you won't make it on your own. Not in a hundred years. That's the purpose of formal music education - to do things in time + achieve measurable progress.

- music is a rat race, where you have to have a killer instinct. You have to have an ambition to be better than your peers. Without that kind of drive, you'll always stay mediocre. That's another reason why formal education is necessary - there you get pitted against others of the same stage. Later you'll be competing with them for jobs, and musicianship is one of those areas where everything is clear about you after 5 minutes of picking your instrument. Uber transparent.

- Bass guitar is a very limited instrument. You have to play DB if you want to be a versatile bassist. Check out any classical concerto for DB with a decent player, and you'll see that all the Wootens and other pop stars pale down in comparison both in terms of sound, virtuosity, content, maturity, thought, complexity, and so on and so forth. That's like cello vs ukulele. Hamburgers vs gourmet. You can debate it to death, but there's no comparison really.
 
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#19
dexter3d said:
- Bass guitar is a very limited instrument. You have to play DB if you want to be a versatile bassist. Check out any classical concerto for DB with a decent player, and you'll see that all the Wootens and other pop stars pale down in comparison both in terms of sound, virtuosity, content, maturity, thought, complexity, and so on and so forth. That's like cello vs ukulele. Hamburgers vs gourmet. You can debate it to death, but there's no comparison really
Click to expand...

Lol... I gotta hand it to you. Among trolls, you are a prince. Nay! A King!
 
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