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The reading of music

#21
I don’t read and write complete and proper notation very well or play the piano very well anymore, but if given the chance to do things over, I would never NOT get the musical education that I received from many years of piano lessons as a child and the music program in junior high and high school. Nor would I choose to do my homework like my parents thought I was doing while I was learning really hard bass parts by ear. (We didn’t have the Internet when I started playing—showing my age a little bit I guess—so I never got into the tablature thing like so many people do when they’re beginning to learn.)

I’d never be able to do the work that I do if I didn’t have a background in the language of music and hadn’t subjected myself to (in hindsight) what was a few brutal years of daily ear training. I very rarely am presented with anything more than chord charts because whoever I’m working with usually wants me to create a bass part!! But I’d be lost if I didn’t know how to read those chord charts and know which notes will sound good or bad or cool bad against them. And LOVE writing quick takedowns and cheat sheets for songs using the Nashville Number System, but that would be near impossible to use without some music theory training.
 
#22
If you think that's what I'm saying, go back and study the words a bit closer.

Bro, those that can't do, get lost in the ephemera of a label or a definition, or perhaps expect others to do it for them. They devise systems to rationalize their own lack of talent or vision and readily usurp or adopt someone else's. That is the masses and it's what sells the majority of records and gear. Am I being cynical? Sure, why not. We live in a world that is more homogenized than bovine juice.

Ignorance doesn't promote creativity. It promotes institutionalized ways of thinking.

Again, what I'm saying is that if you can DO IT, you don't need to obsess over the label you put on it. Why is that so hard to digest?

How is practicing scales anymore beneficial than writing your own music? Practicing scales isn't creative, it's rote and it's the simplest form of learning. Do you honestly think, for example, Stevie Wonder was less of a musician because he didn't read music??? Or perhaps, he would've been a much better musician if he based his playing around the circle of fifths? That's absurd bro.

I've been holding back a bit to this point and I really don't want it to get negative, but most musicians don't get it, they will never get it and that is exactly why a small percentage of players stand out.......they found their own voice. Most won't.

For all the theory you spend lifetimes on, you'll have to spend even more time unlearning all that minutiae to really play. Those that get it, get it. Everyone else idolizes them, pines after their gear and learns their lines lick for lick. Admiration and inspiration are one thing...thinking a wooden box with strings is how 'he got that sound,' is radically different. I'm sorry if you don't see that.

A genius forms connections that most do not. Why do you think artistic geniuses are any different?


If you want to be a good session player, network like a fool and develop your own voice. Music is really about listening and understanding that just because you can play 300bpm, doesn't mean you probably should, ever. Be honest and be yourself. Add only what is necessary to make the song whole. Don't play out. Someone else can play those scales faster and for longer. A million someone else's can. If you don't play with purpose, ten hours of practice a day will never change that. A $6000 Fodera will not change that. All of that crap is a facade to get you to buy **** you can't afford and don't need. Most importantly, it's a great way to get you to be less than you are capable of being. A great musician is a self-actualized one. An instrument is an extension of the self fully realized. The rote memorization of theory is to Hendrix what touch typing is to Carl Jung. Geniuses don't get lost in the mechanics..they transcend them and redefine them for everyone else.

It's kinda sad that you don't seem to get it. This is pretty basic common sense 101 stuff.
 
#23
And for a career like Taylor, you need to be able to write words and sing them night after night without blowing your voice out (both of which she got training for in school and with voice instruction) and then use your massive royalty money to hire guys like me to learn and memorize the music however works best for me.

Apple and oranges. :^P
 
#24
Dan Bozek said:
And for a career like Taylor, you need to be able to write words and sing them night after night without blowing your voice out (both of which she got training for in school and with voice instruction) and then use your massive royalty money to hire guys like me to learn and memorize the music however works best for me.

Apple and oranges. :^P
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+1

Good point! : D

Everyone should do whatever works for them. I've prattled off what worked for me, like a fool. I got just a bit fired up because I didn't learn how to play the usual way. Instruction never worked for me,as it might for most. It was almost always a hindrance. Apples and oranges.
 
#25
I'm trying to figure out where "knowing how to read music" turned into "practicing scales at reckless BPM rates to the point you've lost your creativity"

Music is a form of communication. Having a command over the language means you have the tools to communicate in exciting and dynamic ways. I don't think there are many gifted orators out there who are illiterate...
 
#26
c0nsilience said:
+1

Good point! : D

Everyone should do whatever works for them. I've prattled off what worked for me, like a fool. I got just a bit fired up because I didn't learn how to play the usual way. Instruction never worked for me,as it might for most. It was almost always a hindrance. Apples and oranges.
Click to expand...

This is a separate issue, and one that I agree with you on when it comes to 'genius.' Being a slave to a routine can stymie creativity. Instruction is good when it comes to preventing injury from bad technique. But what inspires you shouldn't come from a lesson plan; it should come from your life's experiences. That's how you project your 'voice'.
 
#27
natw42 said:
This is a separate issue, and one that I agree with you on when it comes to 'genius.' Being a slave to a routine can stymie creativity. Instruction is good when it comes to preventing injury from bad technique. But what inspires you shouldn't come from a lesson plan; it should come from your life's experiences. That's how you project your 'voice'.
Click to expand...

You just articulated that infinitely better than I've been trying to do! Agreed 100000000%
 
#31
I started out reading music from day one and I'm glad I went that route instead of having to learn later on. It's like starting with the tools needed to do the job and then really learning how to use them in a way that works for you. To say that those who know theory, read, study music have no soul or creativity is ridiculous and probably the words of someone who never really excelled in those areas, then calling them pointless and impeding practice. Natural feel and a good ear can only get you so far. Not saying that being limited is bad or the results are bad, but to get into some of the really wicked areas you'll need a map and good navigating skills rather than just a good sense of direction ya know.

Also, this has totally gone off from the OP's question lol
 
#32
c0nsilience said:
+1

Good point! : D

Everyone should do whatever works for them. I've prattled off what worked for me, like a fool. I got just a bit fired up because I didn't learn how to play the usual way. Instruction never worked for me,as it might for most. It was almost always a hindrance. Apples and oranges.
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I understand where you're coming from from an artistic point of view but don't confuse the artistry of the people you've named with the service provided by session musicians. The point is that most session musicians need to possess the skill of reading in order to effectively provide the service of playing the part that's been given to them. It's often like doing voice-over work - you may have been hired because you have a "special voice", but you usually still need to be able to read what's on the paper in front of you. Hendrix was a great guitarist, but he wasn't a session player. If he had wanted to become a session player he most likely would have had to develop a separate set of skills.

Just because someone is a great painter doesn't mean that he or she would make an effective courtroom sketcher.
 
#33
c0n, you've really got a gross misunderstanding of what learning theory is about. It is so not about being institutionalized into thinking like everybody else. It is the exact opposite. But it's also pointless to explain it to someone who never learned it and shows no interest in learning it because they've got no perspective from the other side. But if you're a creative person to begin with, it certainly doesn't stop that from developing...it only enhances it...and I don't care what your favorite non-reading rock star says ;)
 
#34
Very good points guys! Yeah, I digressed somewhat harder than Dubya's million points of light. Lol. You are absolutely right in that it diverted the OP's question into a pissing contest. That's definitely my fault. I know how to read music, but I definitely didn't learn how to play that way. I'm absolutely no authority on session work either and I don't earn a living from that aspect of music.

Crow doesn't taste so bad when it's a bit mixed up with humble pie! Lol

Many thanks for all of the differing perspectives. I've learned quite a bit from this thread. : )
 
#35
Wow.
What did I start :)
Yeah, sure this deviated from my original question, but actually it got to the heart of where I was coming from.
I wouldn't personally want to learn to read unless it would help me in some way.
As with most things (especially musical) there are different points of view, and ignorance is erased by exposing yourself to all of these.
Thanks guys.
 
#36
riti said:
Wow.
What did I start :)
Yeah, sure this deviated from my original question, but actually it got to the heart of where I was coming from.
I wouldn't personally want to learn to read unless it would help me in some way.
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Good point...even if you never ever read a sheet of music on a gig, you will be a much better communicator of musical ideas because of it, your ability to come up with bass parts for songs quickly will increase tenfold, and new musical concepts that you thought were hard to grasp at one time will all of a sudden become much easier to grasp. Wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think there was something to it.
 
#37
JimmyM said:
Good point...even if you never ever read a sheet of music on a gig, you will be a much better communicator of musical ideas because of it, your ability to come up with bass parts for songs quickly will increase tenfold, and new musical concepts that you thought were hard to grasp at one time will all of a sudden become much easier to grasp. Wouldn't recommend it if I didn't think there was something to it.
Click to expand...

I totally agree. I learned to play by ear and didn't know a thing about theory for ages. But learning theory and how to read (two things I continue to work on) has made me a much better bassist (and musician in general). Whereas before I was moving around on a map with no names or direction signs now I can navigate that much more efficiently and with much more confidence.
 
#40
MetroBass said:
What do you mean by "take down?"
Click to expand...

A takedown means writing a kind of cheat sheet for remembering how a song goes as you are listening to the song. Chord progressions for the verse, chorus, bridge, odd bars, etc… Stuff like that. Quick and dirty like short handing a dictation.

I usually carry around a stack of blank manuscript paper and throw chords or numbers on top, and use the bars and any other chicken scratch I write to approximate rhythmic or melodic ideas I want to remember well enough. And then I usually scribble all over it when the producer/artist/band leader tells me an idea, the arrangement changes, we diamond/fermata something, I need to circle a part that I keep blowing, etc…
 

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